2023 ACC News & Discussion

[stinger 1957]

Is this the beginning of a long unraveling of the ACC? My guess is yes. How long no one knows, but my guess is that some schools end up SEC, some Big 10 and the rest in the Big 12 excepting Duke. Duke gets out of FB and goes strictly BB. Two other schools look to not have a fit anywhere, BC and Syracuse. ESPN has said they want their money out of the ACC Network, that has to fit somewhere in all the negotiations. Have no idea what their investment is or what they want, I'm sure all they can get.

 

[4shotB]

Fsu is complaining to tv folks = u tv folks and the acc made a deal that's allowing gt to slide by while fsu is busting ***. FSU IS asking tv folks to call out the bottom dweller gt for failure to provide quality football product due to lack of NON TV REVENUES. Fsu spending while gt coasts on tv money.
Fsu is saying to acc when the new deal is cut, forget the bottom dwellers because they are putting crappy product on tv.

Your argument would be spot on IF FSU were the 'Noles of old. But, aside from the Jameis Winston natty, haven't they been a middle of the road team/program like NC State, GT, UF, USCe, Texas Tech etc. for the last 20-25 years or so???? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems like we have beaten them the last 3 or 4 times we have played them.

 

[Techster]

Anyone really surprised by FSU's demands? This scenario was always inevitable...I actually said something like this was going to happen in the expansion thread. Graham Neff (a GT graduate), the Clemson AD, is also pushing for uneven revenue distribution. The factory schools that view themselves as "national level" want to make sure they get enough revenue to compete with their peers in the B1G and SEC.

There's been rumors for years that FSU was a B1G target. FSU probably has a standing offer from the B1G once the GOR gets settled (either through expiration or in court). I suspect a few other ACC schools also have standing offers (by the B1G or SEC) once the GOR is settled. Right now, Clemson is the flagship football program for the ACC, so if they band together with FSU/UNC there could be some lawyers scurrying to undue the GOR or even the ACC. There are definitely outside factors influencing this. Anyone really surprised that certain programs are making noise right now? They see the revenue distribution coming in the next 3-5 years, and the ACC is about to get left in the dust by the B1G and the SEC.

Which brings us back to GT's decision to turn down the B1G. That decision keeps looking worse and worse as the years (and months) goes by. Not only did our loyalty to the ACC do us no favors (where was the ACC when the Demaryius Thomas stuff was going down, how about scheduling that favored our opponents.), but now members are openly demanding to what amounts to taking money out of our share. So instead of the prospect of making $75-100 million a YEAR with the B1G, GT could very well end up at the bottom of the ACC distribution share. GT needs to learn something that it obviously hasn't learned with the mistake of leaving the SEC: Romanticizing the Student Athlete and college athletics does not pay...in fact, it's hurt us dearly.

Moving on to PAC12/ACC merger. How prescient was this in 2021:

Expansion Talk 2021

Some of you guys act as if the TV contracts are gonna hold these schools, if realignment happens ESPN will want to redo the contracts also AND school media rights would be part of a new deal

gtswarm.com

Crazy idea time: PAC 12 and ACC combine to form a "national" conference. Both have elite schools in their respective conference, and have blue blood programs in football and basketball. Both conferences have similar mission statements and academic values. Plus, East Coast versus West Coast would angle would be interesting. PAC12 is going through some issues right now, and a "reset" like this for ACC and PAC12 could be a game changer.

IMO, adding teams like Oregon/Washington/Stanford/Cal/Utah to the ACC mix would be great. However, I think it would only be a temporary fix for both the ACC and the remaining PAC12 schools. As soon as the GOR for the ACC expires, all bets will be off...and the B1G and SEC will swoop in and take their picks again.

 

[roadkill]

Your argument would be spot on IF FSU were the 'Noles of old. But, aside from the Jameis Winston natty, haven't they been a middle of the road team/program like NC State, GT, UF, USCe, Texas Tech etc. for the last 20-25 years or so???? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems like we have beaten them the last 3 or 4 times we have played them.

As FYI, our “crappy product” won 4 of the last 5 regular season games vs FSU. They’ve won the last two ACC Championship games we’ve played.

Any deal can be renegotiated before it naturally expires, but for that to happen, one of the parties needs leverage. If FSU thinks that their leverage is that they can threaten to leave for another conference, that doesn’t make sense revenue-wise unless they are holding cards we haven’t seen. Without their media rights, they are damaged goods to another conference.

The other party that could possibly get the ACC back to the table is ESPN. But what is the benefit to ESPN to have uneven revenue sharing, since they are paying one price for all the conference games?

I must be missing something.

 

[GT33]

By far the main factor that makes for NFL parity is that #32 team in the NFL gets the top draft choice, #31 gets second draft choice, and so on.

Well damn, here come the Jets & the Lions!

 

[bennyjacket]

If the GOR is undone by lawyers (highly unlikely), does Maryland get lawyers to get their money back? We were all trolling Maryland, but their move to leave was pretty smart. Who would have thought Swofford would drive the ACC into the ground *sarcasm*?

 

[CEB]

Fsu is complaining to tv folks = u tv folks and the acc made a deal that's allowing gt to slide by while fsu is busting ***. FSU IS asking tv folks to call out the bottom dweller gt for failure to provide quality football product due to lack of NON TV REVENUES. Fsu spending while gt coasts on tv money.
Fsu is saying to acc when the new deal is cut, forget the bottom dwellers because they are putting crappy product on tv. Some egg head schools like duke, bc, wf, gt have tougher academics and fewer courses but they don't raise more private money for better resources to be able to compete. The egg head schools - instead of spending more , are spending less!

(Without reading the tv / acc contract we don't have a way to determine if the acc represented its individual member were responsibile to put quality team on field. The acc could have made ZERO garantees for performance.).

While I completely agree that better performance by many of us would be a big lift for the conference, I would be very surprised if a representation of future performance was made.
I could see a representation of things we can control... investment, facilities, additional conference games or bigger out of conference matchups. Promising to win those games, however....

 

[bobongo]

If the GOR is undone by lawyers (highly unlikely), does Maryland get lawyers to get their money back? We were all trolling Maryland, but their move to leave was pretty smart. Who would have thought Swofford would drive the ACC into the ground *sarcasm*?

And Maryland got off light. Somehow, they got the exit fee reduced from $52 million stipulated in the contract to a mere $31 million:

ACC, Maryland reach settlement on exit fee: $31.4M, not $52.2M

The ACC will keep the sum of $31,361,788 previously withheld.

www.usatoday.com

 

[iceeater1969]

Your argument would be spot on IF FSU were the 'Noles of old. But, aside from the Jameis Winston natty, haven't they been a middle of the road team/program like NC State, GT3rd, UF, USCe, Texas Tech etc. for the last 20-25 years or so???? I am too lazy to look it up but it seems like we have beaten them the last 3 or 4 times we have played them.

Dont U believe that consistant winning FOLLOWS GREATER LONG TERM INVESTMENT? I can assure you the tv folks know that it does. They know that operating with less $, a screw up will cause a longer slump before consistant winning returns.

WINS, LOSSES recently AND recent $$
For 3 years before 2020 Covid the Gtaa revenue averaged 85$mm while FSU averaged 150$mm. Gt with limited $ had hired TFP, he sucked, and gt had to try to ride it out EVEN AFTER 100-0! Then gt had to hire a cheap mid season coach while it tries to get $.

About the same time FSUs coach (who took them to the Rose bowl) was hired by TAM for $$$. They then hired, fired, hired, fired and hired Norvel. Last year w our interim coach doing better they boat raced us. Now they are ranked #7 in way to early poll.

To make the tv guys look at gt differently than the 100-0 gt, we have to win now AND like TFP said Its time for alumns to "Put The Money Down". The tv guys will decide.

 

[Techster]

And Maryland got off light. Somehow, they got the exit fee reduced from $52 million stipulated in the contract to a mere $31 million:

ACC, Maryland reach settlement on exit fee: $31.4M, not $52.2M

The ACC will keep the sum of $31,361,788 previously withheld.

www.usatoday.com

Maryland knew the kind of money that was coming down the pipeline. They swallowed a boulder for a few years to pay that $31 million, but they are in line for an annual windfall. I am 100% certain Radakovich also knew the B1G revenue projections when GT was invited to the B1G. There's a reason why he lobbied for us to join the B1G and leave the ACC. Unfortunately, GT made what may go down as one of the worst decisions in GT sports history (along with leaving the SEC). Let's face it, GT is just BAD with business decisions.

If an ACC team today was offered a $50 million buyout to leave and have a place in the B1G or SEC, they would take it yesterday and kick dirt on the rest of the ACC members on the way out. If you want to see the future of the ACC, look no further than the Big 12 and PAC 12. Once the GOR is over (or ACC members find a legal way out), the flagship programs of the ACC will get picked off by the B1G and SEC. The media value of the ACC will plummet because no one really cares about NC State versus Wake Forest, or Syracuse versus Boston College.

GT's biggest card in expansion is we are in the largest media market in the South, with B1G's biggest alumni base in the South, and we would put the B1G directly in the heart of SEC country...with all the fertile recruiting landscape. GT academics is also highly coveted by the B1G member presidents. I still think that means something to the B1G. For our sakes, lets hope it does.

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

This is easy. Get the entire conference to agree to move to the Big 10 and we'll all be rolling in the dough.

 

[GTrob21]

This is insane, you can watch the FSU AD present his case. He uses past ACC revenue numbers compared to future SEC and B1G projections... And the entire board just sat there...Nobody said anything.

This is exactly how really stupid business decisions get made. A CEO calls a board meeting, and all those people just sit there an nod their heads and an utterly ridiculous proposal. This, friends, is how you get Clear Pepsi...

I have said it before and I will say it now even louder.

If FSU wants to go, let them Go... they would be trading the ACC, which is the clear number 3 conference in revenue and with a real distinct pathway to the national championship to go to the SEC, and be what the 7th best program. They will be 7-6, 8-5, most years, have no shot at making the playoffs, and will go to the music city bowl.

And all of that for 20 million more a year, which you will spend on coaches and facilities. Great decision.

Even with the SEC money, they aren't getting close to the Alabama, LSU, and UGAs of the world. And now with Texas in the SEC...good luck Noles. Take Clemson with you if they want to complain as well.

Clemson would quickly become an Ole miss type of program.

I hope the ACC quickly solidifies the PAC/ACC alignment, and from there it's game over. The ACC will be number 3, and when the B1G takes whomever, and the SEC takes whomever, the ACC will still have enough brands to get a larger deal than the Big 12.

It will be in my opinion

1) B1G, I think they have out-maneuvered the SEC, they have bigger population centers, and cover more time zones to maximize ad revenue. Their big brands draw close if not better than the SEC brands. I think they will go East for expansion and pick up southern states that are growing.
2) SEC, they will be number 1 in championships, but a close number 2 in payouts. Especially if they double-dip and get teams like FSU and Clemson.

3A) ACC, after the raids of SEC and B1G, I still think they will be slightly better than the B12, but that could change
3B) B12, they have already had their brands raided, and have settled into the new reality of college football.

I can only pray that this realignment stuff gets done quickly. I'm losing interest in "college" sports.

 

[bobongo]

Maryland knew the kind of money that was coming down the pipeline. They swallowed a boulder for a few years to pay that $31 million, but they are in line for an annual windfall. I am 100% certain Radakovich also knew the B1G revenue projections when GT was invited to the B1G. There's a reason why he lobbied for us to join the B1G and leave the ACC. Unfortunately, GT made what may go down as one of the worst decisions in GT sports history (along with leaving the SEC). Let's face it, GT is just BAD with business decisions.

If an ACC team today was offered a $50 million buyout to leave and have a place in the B1G or SEC, they would take it yesterday and kick dirt on the rest of the ACC members on the way out. If you want to see the future of the ACC, look no further than the Big 12 and PAC 12. Once the GOR is over (or ACC members find a legal way out), the flagship programs of the ACC will get picked off by the B1G and SEC. The media value of the ACC will plummet because no one really cares about NC State versus Wake Forest, or Syracuse versus Boston College.

GT's biggest card in expansion is we are in the largest media market in the South, with B1G's biggest alumni base in the South, and we would put the B1G directly in the heart of SEC country...with all the fertile recruiting landscape. GT academics is also highly coveted by the B1G member presidents. I still think that means something to the B1G. For our sakes, lets hope it does.

Tech could still land on its feet. As you say, it's a top academic institution smack in the middle of a big media market, smack in the middle of the most fertile recruiting ground in America, and smack in the middle of the SEC. The only ingredients missing are the winning and the fans that come with it. Hopefully, the coach and AD are in place to make that happen over the next seven or eight years we have left before the collapse of the ACC.

If Tech ends up in the B1G, will it be the only school that has been in three major conferences? From SEC to independent to ACC to...?

 

[Richard7125]

This is insane, you can watch the FSU AD present his case. He uses past ACC revenue numbers compared to future SEC and B1G projections... And the entire board just sat there...Nobody said anything.

This is exactly how really stupid business decisions get made. A CEO calls a board meeting, and all those people just sit there an nod their heads and an utterly ridiculous proposal. This, friends, is how you get Clear Pepsi...

I have said it before and I will say it now even louder.

If FSU wants to go, let them Go... they would be trading the ACC, which is the clear number 3 conference in revenue and with a real distinct pathway to the national championship to go to the SEC, and be what the 7th best program. They will be 7-6, 8-5, most years, have no shot at making the playoffs, and will go to the music city bowl.

And all of that for 20 million more a year, which you will spend on coaches and facilities. Great decision.

Even with the SEC money, they aren't getting close to the Alabama, LSU, and UGAs of the world. And now with Texas in the SEC...good luck Noles. Take Clemson with you if they want to complain as well.

Clemson would quickly become an Ole miss type of program.

I hope the ACC quickly solidifies the PAC/ACC alignment, and from there it's game over. The ACC will be number 3, and when the B1G takes whomever, and the SEC takes whomever, the ACC will still have enough brands to get a larger deal than the Big 12.

It will be in my opinion

1) B1G, I think they have out-maneuvered the SEC, they have bigger population centers, and cover more time zones to maximize ad revenue. Their big brands draw close if not better than the SEC brands. I think they will go East for expansion and pick up southern states that are growing.
2) SEC, they will be number 1 in championships, but a close number 2 in payouts. Especially if they double-dip and get teams like FSU and Clemson.

3A) ACC, after the raids of SEC and B1G, I still think they will be slightly better than the B12, but that could change
3B) B12, they have already had their brands raided, and have settled into the new reality of college football.

I can only pray that this realignment stuff gets done quickly. I'm losing interest in "college" sports.

Current talk is that the Pac12 is in a tenuous position for a new media rights deal. Speculation is the B12’s new deal of $31m/team could lure other Pac12 teams to the Big12 – suggesting the Pac12 deal could be south of $31m/team. The ACC currently pays $36m/team. Why do you think a Pac12/ACC alliance would produce more than $36m/team?

 

[Techster]

Current talk is that the Pac12 is in a tenuous position for a new media rights deal. Speculation is the B12’s new deal of $31m/team could lure other Pac12 teams to the Big12 – suggesting the Pac12 deal could be south of $31m/team. The ACC currently pays $36m/team. Why do you think a Pac12/ACC alliance would produce more than $36m/team?

There's speculation that ACC just wants Oregon/Washington/Stanford/Cal. They do not want Washington State, Oregon State, etc. Those teams would not add value to the ACC contract, also ESPN WILL NOT pay the ACC more per school for additional schools. Those 2nd tier PAC12 schools would actually devalue our media contract. ESPN has the ACC over a barrel right now (thanks GOR!) and are making a LOT of money off the ACC. Apparently, the SEC isn't as lucrative for ESPN as the ACC, despite the SEC being a powerhouse football league. SEC is being viewed as a high cost/high viewership conference due to the all the championships, but they are not as profitable on a per $$$ basis as the ACC. The ACC deal only gets better for ESPN each year (and worse for the ACC).

The other thing that's being discussed out there is the ACC is demanding GOR from the PAC12 schools, but some schools want a B1G/SEC clause that releases them if they can join a "better" conference.

ACC/PAC12 would be a marriage of convenience...and will most likely dissolve as soon as certain members get a better offer elsewhere. We're really all in a holding pattern until the ACC's GOR gets figured out. EVERYONE sees the writing on the wall: B1G and SEC are sitting on the banks of the lake waiting for winter to come and the water to freeze so they can cross the frozen lake and pick off their targets. ACC GOR is the lake the BIG and SEC are waiting to freeze.

 

[Techster]

Tech could still land on its feet. As you say, it's a top academic institution smack in the middle of a big media market, smack in the middle of the most fertile recruiting ground in America, and smack in the middle of the SEC. The only ingredients missing are the winning and the fans that come with it. Hopefully, the coach and AD are in place to make that happen over the next seven or eight years we have left before the collapse of the ACC.

If Tech ends up in the B1G, will it be the only school that has been in three major conferences? From SEC to independent to ACC to...?

Something that I keep seeing from sports writers gives me hope for GT: When it comes to expansion, what schools presidents want out of expansion is not the same thing as what students and fans want.

Fans often forget that sports is cyclical. 'Bama won't always be "Bama", Texas won't always be "Texas" (and they currently are not), and GT won't always be knocking at the bottom of the cellar. GT has actually been one of the most consistent programs in the last 3 decades. We're a 6-8+ win team that regularly goes bowling, and we add academic prestige to the conference. We're almost like an S&P 500 index fund. Boring, but our returns are consistent. Sure there are down years (see 2018-2022, 2015), but for vast majority of the time GT is a consistent winner with the occasional special season. For a conference, there's a LOT of value in that. Oh, we're also in one of the biggest media markets, in one of the most high value economic markets, and one of the most fertile recruiting regions in the country. There are MANY reasons why GT was invited to the B1G in the first place...I don't see that changing, TBH.

 

[bobongo]

The other thing that's being discussed out there is the ACC is demanding GOR from the PAC12 schools, but some schools want a B1G/SEC clause that releases them if they can join a "better" conference.

Seems to me any exception to the GOR would be the end of the GOR. Right now, it's the only thing holding the ACC together as a viable, major conference.

 

[BurdellJacket]

Something that I keep seeing from sports writers gives me hope for GT: When it comes to expansion, what schools presidents want out of expansion is not the same thing as what students and fans want.

Fans often forget that sports is cyclical. 'Bama won't always be "Bama", Texas won't always be "Texas" (and they currently are not), and GT won't always be knocking at the bottom of the cellar. GT has actually been one of the most consistent programs in the last 3 decades. We're a 6-8+ win team that regularly goes bowling, and we add academic prestige to the conference. We're almost like an S&P 500 index fund. Boring, but our returns are consistent. Sure there are down years (see 2018-2022, 2015), but for vast majority of the time GT is a consistent winner with the occasional special season. For a conference, there's a LOT of value in that. Oh, we're also in one of the biggest media markets, in one of the most high value economic markets, and one of the most fertile recruiting regions in the country. There are MANY reasons why GT was invited to the B1G in the first place...I don't see that changing, TBH.

Honest question, FMI, but do we know for certain Tech was invited to the B1G and when was it? I was probably out of the loop when that was going on?

 

[Golden Tornadoes]

Something that I keep seeing from sports writers gives me hope for GT: When it comes to expansion, what schools presidents want out of expansion is not the same thing as what students and fans want.

Fans often forget that sports is cyclical. 'Bama won't always be "Bama", Texas won't always be "Texas" (and they currently are not), and GT won't always be knocking at the bottom of the cellar. GT has actually been one of the most consistent programs in the last 3 decades. We're a 6-8+ win team that regularly goes bowling, and we add academic prestige to the conference. We're almost like an S&P 500 index fund. Boring, but our returns are consistent. Sure there are down years (see 2018-2022, 2015), but for vast majority of the time GT is a consistent winner with the occasional special season. For a conference, there's a LOT of value in that. Oh, we're also in one of the biggest media markets, in one of the most high value economic markets, and one of the most fertile recruiting regions in the country. There are MANY reasons why GT was invited to the B1G in the first place...I don't see that changing, TBH.

I've said it before, but I can look at the B1G and name 3 programs right off the bat that we would be better than. I could also make a pretty good argument for us being better than 4-5 of them. With their perceived emphasis on having strong academics with a major plus of being part of the AAU, we fit in quite nicely. Our historical athletic success and market also make us attractive. We will never be invited back to the SEC, but the B1G should give us another chance.

 

[UgaBlows]

I've said it before, but I can look at the B1G and name 3 programs right off the bat that we would be better than. I could also make a pretty good argument for us being better than 4-5 of them. With their perceived emphasis on having strong academics with a major plus of being part of the AAU, we fit in quite nicely. Our historical athletic success and market also make us attractive. We will never be invited back to the SEC, but the B1G should give us another chance.

Playing games every year in Atlanta (and Miami) would absolutely boost BIG recruiting (which is where they lag the SEC). There’s no damn way they are going to pass that chance up.