🔥🔥🔥 Good Take on our Current Challenges

[GTNavyNuke]

Probably took a break in 1990 and 2014

That's why it's better to be a beesball fan.

Sometimes very good, but almost always competitive.

 

[Skeptic]

A boss only has so many brass hats.
Lets try shopping from Clemson and Alabama . Perhaps they got injured and fell out of class balance cycle.
I guess we can hope they recover.

Clemson's portal reps are largely and unfortunately, disaffected playing time guys. They came in as 4-stars but never played above a low 3star guy.

 

[Pointer]

I'm mad too.

Mad at Binion and the writers on that site that are constantly and publicly running down this program.
Mad at people who provide fodder for opposing recruiters.
Mad at people who don't understand that positive is better than negative.
Mad at people who don't understand you don't win with inexperienced players.
Mad at people who want instant gratification.
Mad at people who don't understand that Collins has had only two full recruiting classes to produce results.
Mad at people who don't understand that this program has limited resources but don't contribute to it.

I'll stop there before I get really mad.

But you were posting very negative narratives about the program during the last coaching regime.

Don't you think you're being majorly hypocritical with your angry/whinny post here?

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

OK, is everyone mad enough for each other now?

So does that mean we are a united fan base? We are all pissed at each other.

 

[augustabuzz]

More or less, same for every team. Point stands.

It is their second and third year on campus, do you really think they are Fr and R-Fr ? I don't think when the '22 class steps on campus, they will think they are, especially when practice starts. A lot has to do with how talented they are when signed. See Clemson's data. We could just subtract one class from each class of OL I listed for all teams. Cochran and Johnson were not young last year and neither is Quick for next year (he's probably 20 years old).

Jordan Williams, our first signee to play is a rising sophomore and was a freshman in 2021.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Oops, my bad. You replied to my post, so I figured you were talking to me. Agreed, 3 years of 3-win seasons is going to make any fan base mad, no matter what the coaches said publicly.

No problem. "Its a Mad, Mad, World" in so far as all things Tech football are concerned but then that is normal for the entire Coastal. Chaos all the way around.

 

[GoldZ]

Jordan Williams, our first signee to play is a rising sophomore and was a freshman in 2021.

He signed in the '20 class and has played 2 years now. Covid defined classes or not, he is a rising Jr. for next season.

 

[forensicbuzz]

It is their second and third year on campus, do you really think they are Fr and R-Fr ? I don't think when the '22 class steps on campus, they will think they are, especially when practice starts. A lot has to do with how talented they are when signed. See Clemson's data. We could just subtract one class from each class of OL I listed for all teams. Cochran and Johnson were not young last year and neither is Quick for next year (he's probably 20 years old).

LOL! You listed all the players on the other teams as their listed class (Freshmen in their 2nd year because of Covid year, Sophomores in their 3rd year because of Covid year), then you say our guys are sophomores and juniors (instead of freshmen and sophomores because of Covid year). You're comparing apples to oranges. Remember, Jeff Sims was listed as a freshman this year too.

No one is questioning how many years our players have been here. But when you list a "freshman" for Clemson who's actually playing in his second year because his first year was a covid-year, then you're being disingenuous or not looking at it closely enough.

However, your other point is also accurate. You can't compare a 5* freshman lineman starting at Clemson or uga to our freshmen linemen. We're never going to compare to that. If we start a freshman, we're either decimated at that position or we hit the lottery. I think Williams was a must-play as a true freshman and we would have been much better off if we could have RS'd him. Cochran was really good for us, but every time I saw someone coming through the line untouched, it seemed it was coming through the Johnson revolving door. I'm not an OL guy, so I'm not criticizing our players. I have no idea why certain players were turned loose or left unblocked, but Johnson seemed to be in a position where many opponents came through.

 

[forensicbuzz]

It is their second and third year on campus, do you really think they are Fr and R-Fr ? I don't think when the '22 class steps on campus, they will think they are, especially when practice starts. A lot has to do with how talented they are when signed. See Clemson's data. We could just subtract one class from each class of OL I listed for all teams. Cochran and Johnson were not young last year and neither is Quick for next year (he's probably 20 years old).

BTW, Cochran and Johnson are not on our roster anymore, so I'm not sure why you brought them up. Next year Quick will be in his first year on campus, as I said. Beyond age and size, OL has a lot to do with teamwork and gelling together. So, just because we bring in good pieces doesn't mean they're going to play well together immediately.

 

[forensicbuzz]

He signed in the '20 class and has played 2 years now. Covid defined classes or not, he is a rising Jr. for next season.

And so you need to upgrade the other teams' players too or your comparison is not accurate, that's the point.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

BTW, Cochran and Johnson are not on our roster anymore, so I'm not sure why you brought them up. Next year Quick will be in his first year on campus, as I said. Beyond age and size, OL has a lot to do with teamwork and gelling together. So, just because we bring in good pieces doesn't mean they're going to play well together immediately.

I’m not trying to be contentious. I honestly am just trying to find something to give me hope.

Here’s my problem. It sounds like the offensive line is still at least 2-3 years away from jelling. But I don’t think the fans can handle 1-2 more losing seasons and CGC will then be gone and we will be starting all over again. The flip side is that by some miracle CGC hangs in there and by year five, say, we get up to 7 wins. That would mean it took 5 years to climb back to the level we were at before CGC came.

But all of the best case scenarios require a level of coaching we have yet to see demonstrated.

Help me find a hopeful way to look at this.

 

[GoldZ]

And so you need to upgrade the other teams' players too or your comparison is not accurate, that's the point.

From my original post: Covid means all of the above is understated due to extra year, but otoh can mean fewer games/PT

 

[TromboneJacket]

I’m not trying to be contentious. I honestly am just trying to find something to give me hope.

Here’s my problem. It sounds like the offensive line is still at least 2-3 years away from jelling. But I don’t think the fans can handle 1-2 more losing seasons and CGC will then be gone and we will be starting all over again. The flip side is that by some miracle CGC hangs in there and by year five, say, we get up to 7 wins. That would mean it took 5 years to climb back to the level we were at before CGC came.

But all of the best case scenarios require a level of coaching we have yet to see demonstrated.

Help me find a hopeful way to look at this.

Here’s my hopeful take on the situation: our O-line will probably not be dominant next year, but there’s hope that they will be better than last season. From my (admittedly flawed and imperfect) eye test, our offense has improved each of the past two years. Not enough to win more games or carry the team, but it’s improved. If the OL improves, Sims improves, the WRs and TEs improve, and the RBs don’t take a big step back, then our offense should be better purely from a personnel standpoint. Add in that we should have better play calling to take advantage of our strengths and mitigate our weaknesses, and there’s another reason for optimism on offense. Plus Leo Blackburn should be back from injury, and by all accounts, he was balling out when he got reps in practice.

On defense, there’s plenty of reason to believe we can be better, though admittedly it’s harder to predict whether we will. With Tillman taking over the secondary, the communication should be better, and we do have some pretty solid talent there that hasn’t yet been tapped into. The linebackers appeared to play well enough for the most part last season, and we should be retaining some experience and talent there, in addition to having some promising young players like Tatum and Efford. The D-line doesn’t have the talent and development yet to be dominant, but they definitely have the talent to be better than they showed last season. Ivey looks like a beast, Keion White looked solid near the end of the season, Biggers showed some flashes of his great potential, and we have other DTs who could take a step forward and contribute more in Chimedza, Lockhart, Scott, and Stone. Plus we’re adding 2 promising young DTs. At EDGE, we have talent, depth, and experience with Domineck, Kennard, and Harris. Defense is a bit baffling because we have the talent to be much better than we were. We just need to do 2 things: fix the execution issues in the secondary and fix the play calling in the front 6/7. I’ve beaten this horse to death, but I’m gonna say it again: whether we have the personnel to run a 3-3-5 is questionable, but it sure as heck will not work by lining up EDGE players in a 4-tech alignment. What we do have is personnel that are well-suited to run a 4-2-5 or 4-3 defense. If we can just put them in position to succeed, they’ll play so well that it’ll leave the opponents thunderstruck.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I’m not trying to be contentious. I honestly am just trying to find something to give me hope.

Here’s my problem. It sounds like the offensive line is still at least 2-3 years away from jelling. But I don’t think the fans can handle 1-2 more losing seasons and CGC will then be gone and we will be starting all over again. The flip side is that by some miracle CGC hangs in there and by year five, say, we get up to 7 wins. That would mean it took 5 years to climb back to the level we were at before CGC came.

But all of the best case scenarios require a level of coaching we have yet to see demonstrated.

Help me find a hopeful way to look at this.

As I’ve said before, and I’m repeating because you’re asking me, I think it will take 2-3 more years to get the OL that we want that will be at a level we will sustain. Don’t expect 10 wins before then. But, I think we can be mostly competitive now if we can get our OL to play together. I think we have the pieces to compete with most of our competition. I don’t think we have the experienced pieces to go head-to-head with uga/Clemson/ND etc. and win the LOS consistently. I do believe we have the pieces to get there. That’s just my opinion.

 

[Skeptic]

It does not take 7 years for a team to learn how to play disciplined , aggressive football.
To play hard for an entire game
...

I don't think that is for the players. It takes Collins seven years. And then the locusts.

 

[GoldZ]

From my original post: Covid means all of the above is understated due to extra year, but otoh can mean fewer games/PT

Bottom line...the source used, and I are using the same method to class players, i.e. Williams is a rising Jr., just as Gibbs is. With so many Fr, So, and Jrs starting on prominent team's OLs, just how critical is it to have played 3 or 4 years together, since these teams did not. Again, one offsetting matter on this is depth, which takes longer, but dang, it's time in '22 for the OL to be much improved---not dominating but clearly improved, or we are doing something wrong (and I doubt it is Key).

 

[forensicbuzz]

Bottom line...the source used, and I are using the same method to class players, i.e. Williams is a rising Jr., just as Gibbs is. With so many Fr, So, and Jrs starting on prominent team's OLs, just how critical is it to have played 3 or 4 years together, since these teams did not. Again, one offsetting matter on this is depth, which takes longer, but dang, it's time in '22 for the OL to be much improved---not dominating but clearly improved, or we are doing something wrong (and I doubt it is Key).

The point was the freshmen listed for the other teams were 2nd-year players, not first-year players. You listed our same guys as "sophomores." which is not apples to apples. You also probably listed mostly high 4* and 5* linemen on three of the best recruiting teams in the Nation, and they're being worked in with guys that have been in their system for 4-5 years.

The highlighted section I wholeheartedly agree with. The rest we can probably put to rest.

 

[GoldZ]

The point was the freshmen listed for the other teams were 2nd-year players, not first-year players. You listed our same guys as "sophomores." which is not apples to apples. You also probably listed mostly high 4* and 5* linemen on three of the best recruiting teams in the Nation, and they're being worked in with guys that have been in their system for 4-5 years.

The highlighted section I wholeheartedly agree with. The rest we can probably put to rest.

No, they were not. My source has confirmed that their info is, a second year player is a Sophomore. What would they call a Freshman....maybe a pre-Freshman!? They are quick to point out that some schools go by the covid designation and some don't in their pressers, but when that happens they go by the original class designations, which is why they use the redshirt designations when appropriate. Is Williams not a Jr in your eyes? He's a third year player next season. As for the teams on our schedule I picked, they are not exceptions as to having a number of younger OL on their 2-deeps. I picked them because it should be harder for younger players to crack the line-up on really good teams. The numbers I posted suggest these younger players are not just being "worked in".

 

[GT33]

Dig deeper into this one. If there is a reason that we should retain CGC for another year or two, it's this.

And yes, this was a Collins implementation.

It started way before Collins.

 

[augustabuzz]

No, they were not. My source has confirmed that their info is, a second year player is a Sophomore. What would they call a Freshman....maybe a pre-Freshman!? They are quick to point out that some schools go by the covid designation and some don't in their pressers, but when that happens they go by the original class designations, which is why they use the redshirt designations when appropriate. Is Williams not a Jr in your eyes? He's a third year player next season. As for the teams on our schedule I picked, they are not exceptions as to having a number of younger OL on their 2-deeps. I picked them because it should be harder for younger players to crack the line-up on really good teams. The numbers I posted suggest these younger players are not just being "worked in".

Williams is not a 3rd year player because 2020 was just a few months. That's why Tech, the ACC, and NCAA say he is a rising soph.