“I got out” bad for recruiting

gtphd

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
333
How come none of these phenomenal 4* & 5*’s are asking what kinds of jobs they can get after they “get out” of GT? The percentages of making bank in the NFL are extremely slim. Surely our coaching staff has been talking to them about possible careers after they get out. We should have a huge leg up on muttville and the other factories. Or maybe guys is this category are more interested in bagging at Kroger than becoming a highly compensated professional?
Because the average 4* or 5* has spent their whole life being told they’re special and that they’ll make the NFL. It’s not a question of “if” they make the NFL in their heads, it’s whether they’re a 1st or 2nd rounder.
 

IEEEWreck

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
656
At a salary of 455k, The average UDFA makes what the average GT grad makes in a year of they last on a roster for just 2 weeks even if they aren't on a roster in a game. They make it through training camp, they make what a GT grad makes in 7.5 years in 4 months. Fact is UDFAs pay way more than degrees, and the higher your star, the more likely you are to make it. Training camp pays higher/week than what average GT grads make as well, even if you don't end up on a roster. And that's not including signing bonuses.

Is this an example of the bad math that many recruits might use?
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,047
Is that the same Dr. Line who was known as "Machine Gun Line" in the early 60s?
Never heard that one but it was 1966. He was teaching it like we were graduate math students rather than first exposure. I spent time away from school in the navy and came back afterwards. I retook it and aced it. Much better instructor.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
At a salary of 455k, The average UDFA makes what the average GT grad makes in a year of they last on a roster for just 2 weeks even if they aren't on a roster in a game. They make it through training camp, they make what a GT grad makes in 7.5 years in 4 months. Fact is UDFAs pay way more than degrees, and the higher your star, the more likely you are to make it. Training camp pays higher/week than what average GT grads make as well, even if you don't end up on a roster. And that's not including signing bonuses.

And the average time in the league is 2.5 years. For many UDFAs, it is one year or less. 2.5*$455k is equal to $1.14 million. That is before agent fees and taxes. If he saves most of his money and doesn't buy expensive cars, etc he might be able to have $450-500 saved during that time. That isn't enough to retire on at age 24. He is still going to have to do something else. High school kids might not think about things that way, but they definitely should.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
At a salary of 455k, The average UDFA makes what the average GT grad makes in a year of they last on a roster for just 2 weeks even if they aren't on a roster in a game. They make it through training camp, they make what a GT grad makes in 7.5 years in 4 months. Fact is UDFAs pay way more than degrees, and the higher your star, the more likely you are to make it. Training camp pays higher/week than what average GT grads make as well, even if you don't end up on a roster. And that's not including signing bonuses.
I’m not 100% certain but someone here more knowledgeable can confirm (these are last year’s numbers). The minimum salary in 2018 was $480k (roughly $30k a week for each week you can stay on the roster), however there’s some fine print contract details that keep the lower levels from cashing in:
A. The highest paid UDFA got a $5k bonus & $40k in base pay guaranteed.
B. Number 10 out of the hundreds of UDFA’s got $20k, $10k bonus & $10k base pay guaranteed
C. Practice squad during the season pays $6900/wk. If you can stay on it all year you can make a bit over $110k. Not sure anyone Stayed on the PS all of this year.
D. I believe room & board is provided during training camp but the weekly pay for rookies is around $1100/week.
E. They pay minimum about $15k to an agent at the lowest end of the salary scale. I’m sure that’s prorated somehow if you get cut early.

Friend of mine’s kid had this happen & he was someone you saw on NCAA highlights periodically for a top P5 team and that kid went underrated:
A. He paid somewhere between $15-20K to get trained up for the draft. Admittedly, he bulks up & gets much stronger. Picks up some techniques that make him better than he ever was before. He’s felling good.
B. He went undrafted. Agent says no big deal, maybe it’s best because you don’t get stuck on a team that doesn’t have need for you.
C. First call was to the Bills. He flew to Buffalo at own expense for a try out. 2nd day gets his chance & is told to go back to hotel & wait. Day 4 told, we’re not interested. Agent tells him to fly to Cleveland.
D. Cleveland gives him a physical. Run thru some drills on day 2. Hey c’mon back for day 3. Day 4, we’re not sure you might want to hang out. Day 5 agents says head to Pittsburgh, you’re just what they’re looking for.
E. Pittsburgh was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He gets stiff armed for 3 days & agent tells him to go back to Cleveland.
F. He heads home. He’s about $25k in debt & feels like he got lied to everywhere.

Bottom line: He was a smart kid that got his degree thankfully. He started off at $35k at a nice company on the panhandle & his dad told me a couple year’s back he got a nice promotion and was raising a family. He was still paying everybody back from the NFL loans. Maybe he just got screwed but I think he’s more the norm than the exception.
 
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Never heard that one but it was 1966. He was teaching it like we were graduate math students rather than first exposure. I spent time away from school in the navy and came back afterwards. I retook it and aced it. Much better instructor.
Since I was there from '62 to '67, that's probably the one. That was the nickname used for him by my fellow classmates, although I never had him.
 

smathis30

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
732
And the average time in the league is 2.5 years. For many UDFAs, it is one year or less. 2.5*$455k is equal to $1.14 million. That is before agent fees and taxes. If he saves most of his money and doesn't buy expensive cars, etc he might be able to have $450-500 saved during that time. That isn't enough to retire on at age 24. He is still going to have to do something else. High school kids might not think about things that way, but they definitely should.
You don't get great people to factories by telling them they will peter out in 2.5 years. Is it true? Absolutely. Potential for money is there and that's what you have to sell
 

smathis30

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
732
I’m not 100% certain but someone here more knowledgeable can confirm (these are last year’s numbers). The minimum salary in 2018 was $480k (roughly $30k a week for each week you can stay on the roster), however there’s some fine print contract details that keep the lower levels from cashing in:
A. The highest paid UDFA got a $5k bonus & $40k in base pay guaranteed.
B. Number 10 out of the hundreds of UDFA’s got $20k, $10k bonus & $10k base pay guaranteed
C. Practice squad during the season pays $6900/wk. If you can stay on it all year you can make a bit over $110k. Not sure anyone Stayed on the PS all of this year.
D. I believe room & board is provided during training camp but the weekly pay for rookies is around $1100/week.
E. They pay minimum about $15k to an agent at the lowest end of the salary scale. I’m sure that’s prorated somehow if you get cut early.

Friend of mine’s kid had this happen & he was someone you saw on NCAA highlights periodically for a top P5 team and that kid went underrated:
A. He paid somewhere between $15-20K to get trained up for the draft. Admittedly, he bulks up & gets much stronger. Picks up some techniques that make him better than he ever was before. He’s felling good.
B. He went undrafted. Agent says no big deal, maybe it’s best because you don’t get stuck on a team that doesn’t have need for you.
C. First call was to the Bills. He flew to Buffalo at own expense for a try out. 2nd day gets his chance & is told to go back to hotel & wait. Day 4 told, we’re not interested. Agent tells him to fly to Cleveland.
D. Cleveland gives him a physical. Run thru some drills on day 2. Hey c’mon back for day 3. Day 4, we’re not sure you might want to hang out. Day 5 agents says head to Pittsburgh, you’re just what they’re looking for.
E. Pittsburgh was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He gets stiff armed for 3 days & agent tells him to go back to Cleveland.
F. He heads home. He’s about $25k in debt & feels like he got lied to everywhere.

Bottom line: He was a smart kid that got his degree thankfully. He started off at $35k at a nice company on the panhandle & his dad told me a couple year’s back he got a nice promotion and was raising a family. He was still paying everybody back from the NFL loans. Maybe he just got screwed but I think he’s more the norm than the exception.
Definitely on the screwed part. One of my friends from high school got drafted, albeit 2nd round, and his story is different. Another went UDFA in the past few years, and teams covered the expenses to and from plus lodging. Only lasted through training camp. In leaving out what happens if you do get drafted, endorsement deals, etc. resources are available and give further push. If recruiting ranks are 100% predictive of initiative, injuries, and skill through college as indicators of success, 100% of 5* and around 40% of 3* SHOULD be drafted if they are perfect. Add in potential for UDFA and it's higher. As soon in CFL even higher. Obviously they aren't. Most will know way out in advance their shots as the internet has changed the game, especially so in the last few years. Even so, you still have to sell potential. Recruiting is sales at the end of the day and you sell what the costumer wants, not what they neccesarily need. I'm not disagreeing that it's absolutely important. Stats show you're asboltuely right. But it's why you're typing about football behind a computer and teams have a recruiting staff. You're point of selling can't be even close to remotely being interpreted as "you're not good enough to make the next level" to everyone. It'll resonate with some people, who see the odds. You don't sell the lottery by telling people they will lose
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
@smathis30 You’re absolutely right. No way we should be going around telling anyone our program is for guys that can’t make it. Look at Shaq, Dwyer, Smelter, etc. There are fundamentals that get learned at GT regardless of the scheme and when coupled with the rapid ability to learn from being put through the grinder makes those guys superior draft choices. Didn’t take long to teach Shaq how to bear hug block to protect that nancy boy Brady dancing around in the pocket.
 

flea77

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
934
" I Got Out" is the selling point. I have 2 sons who " GOT OUT" !!!! Well , almost, 1 more exam... The bottom line is football is temporary... GT has great tradition, plays a great schedule. Has fans and alumni that support the S/A'a. GT is not a " factory" you don't have players who are being interviewed one year, then being arrested at walmart the next mth. Because they did not grad . So screw the folks who think its bad " press" I have 1 who " got out " !!!!!!! and another who is " getting out " Sat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

ibeattetris

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,606
" I Got Out" is the selling point. I have 2 sons who " GOT OUT" !!!! Well , almost, 1 more exam... The bottom line is football is temporary... GT has great tradition, plays a great schedule. Has fans and alumni that support the S/A'a. GT is not a " factory" you don't have players who are being interviewed one year, then being arrested at walmart the next mth. Because they did not grad . So screw the folks who think its bad " press" I have 1 who " got out " !!!!!!! and another who is " getting out " Sat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like your perspective on this (and you have first hand experience on how it could affect recruiting).
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,047
" I Got Out" is the selling point. I have 2 sons who " GOT OUT" !!!! Well , almost, 1 more exam... The bottom line is football is temporary... GT has great tradition, plays a great schedule. Has fans and alumni that support the S/A'a. GT is not a " factory" you don't have players who are being interviewed one year, then being arrested at walmart the next mth. Because they did not grad . So screw the folks who think its bad " press" I have 1 who " got out " !!!!!!! and another who is " getting out " Sat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are going to miss you on the blog. So happy for your sons. We know how much time and effort they have given to their education. Thanks for sharing. Glad to call them fellow alums.
 

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
5,133
" I Got Out" is the selling point. I have 2 sons who " GOT OUT" !!!! Well , almost, 1 more exam... The bottom line is football is temporary... GT has great tradition, plays a great schedule. Has fans and alumni that support the S/A'a. GT is not a " factory" you don't have players who are being interviewed one year, then being arrested at walmart the next mth. Because they did not grad . So screw the folks who think its bad " press" I have 1 who " got out " !!!!!!! and another who is " getting out " Sat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great post...I completely agree. the Marines don't market themselves as the easiest branch of the military, they are looking for the few...the proud...the Marines.

GT needs to sell this approach. heck, if it were easy, everybody could do it and there would be no talk about getting out. it would be just like 99.98% of all other college and universities in the world. How do you differentiate that???
 

MidtownJacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,873
" I Got Out" is the selling point. I have 2 sons who " GOT OUT" !!!! Well , almost, 1 more exam... The bottom line is football is temporary... GT has great tradition, plays a great schedule. Has fans and alumni that support the S/A'a. GT is not a " factory" you don't have players who are being interviewed one year, then being arrested at walmart the next mth. Because they did not grad . So screw the folks who think its bad " press" I have 1 who " got out " !!!!!!! and another who is " getting out " Sat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Proud to welcome your son in to the fraternity of Tech Men. It is a lot of work, but agreed, the journey is the point.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
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12,279
Location
Marietta, GA
At a salary of 455k, The average UDFA makes what the average GT grad makes in a year of they last on a roster for just 2 weeks even if they aren't on a roster in a game. They make it through training camp, they make what a GT grad makes in 7.5 years in 4 months. Fact is UDFAs pay way more than degrees, and the higher your star, the more likely you are to make it. Training camp pays higher/week than what average GT grads make as well, even if you don't end up on a roster. And that's not including signing bonuses.
What percentage of 4* and 5* make an NFL roster for 2 weeks or even one year? Heck include 3* and 2* players too.

... Less than 2% make a team. Basing that off off the percentage drafted, between 1.5 and 2% get drafted depending upon number then add some UDFA that MAKE a team.

That means 98% don't even get a Payday... Hope the have a better plan than make the NFL. Also, the one year players need a plan too...


BTW not picking at @smathis30, just wanted to point out that more than 90 percent aren't going pro in football in the US or Canada.
 
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