Your choice for Head Coach

[Randy Carson]

I don't think we can claim anything has been proven under Key, he's won 4 games that all required some luck, and lost to two terrible opponents at home and got blasted by a good opponent. That's it.

We may have proven that if the players believe in a coach who knows which buttons to push, they practice harder and play better.

 

[yeti92]

We may have proven that if the players believe in a coach who knows which buttons to push, they practice harder and play better.

"May have" sounds like it's not proven yet.

 

[5277hike]

This is off topic...but who are we kidding? It's like herding ducks around here.

Which schools would you include? I would go for smaller schools...tougher academics...

I've got Tech, Duke, Wake, UVA, and Vandy (but only if the SEC gives them the boot). I'd also put BC in that group...except it's not Southern. Navy? Tulane?

Reality is, if the B1G and the SEC continue to expand, we're looking at a two-tier landscape whether we admit it or not.

I'm not convinced we're in the Premier League. But I'm a fan of the relegation system, so I've got that going for me.

Rice and maybe Baylor?

 

[bobongo]

I don't think we can claim anything has been proven under Key, he's won 4 games that all required some luck, and lost to two terrible opponents at home and got blasted by a good opponent. That's it.

He won two games as 24- and 21- point underdogs, so there's that. When's the last time that happened? Anyone know?

Winning close games is a hallmark of a good coach.

 

[bobongo]

We may have proven that if the players believe in a coach who knows which buttons to push, they practice harder and play better.

That's an incredibly important trait for a coach to have. Others may have it, but Brent has proven he has it in spades.

 

[yeti92]

He won two games as 24- and 21- point underdogs, so there's that. When's the last time that happened? Anyone know?

Winning close games is a hallmark of a good coach.

That's awesome and I've said elsewhere I would be happy with Key as HC, but both games could have easily gone the other way and no one would be talking about Key at all. I think Key does have something about him, but we don't have nearly enough data to say what/why that is.

 

[bobongo]

That's awesome and I've said elsewhere I would be happy with Key as HC, but both games could have easily gone the other way and no one would be talking about Key at all. I think Key does have something about him, but we don't have nearly enough data to say what/why that is.

That we won at all as such huge underdogs is remarkable. As I said, winning close games is a hallmark of a good coach.

 

[jojatk]

Here's my issue with the Chadwell possibility:

Chadwell is us repeating the Georgia Southern track post CPJ all over again, except that it will permanently link GT as the school that runs the quirky option offense. It's hard enough to overcome the "GT runs the wing T perception" that still persists outside of our fanbase. (If you don't talk to other CFB fans, we're still viewed as the triple option school). We will NEVER be able to overcome it if we hire that guy. It will become our permanent brand along with everything that comes with it: bad recruiting, limited pool of assistant coaches, horrible defense, lack of fan interest, etc.

If you sent to take a look at the trajectory we're on, you can roughly equate our CPJ years to the GSU CPJ/Sewak years, G**** ~ BVG and Hatcher, Chadwell you would expect to roughly equate to Monken and Fritz. Of course, our schedule is roughly 2 games harder each year, so that would work out to somewhere around a 6.5 game expected wins for Chadwell if the comparison holds. CPJ was the best, bringing in someone else running a triple option based scheme is never going to net better results and certainly not because it's run out of different formations and incorporates more passing.

I truly think the fans wanting Chadwell are underestimating the difficulty in maintaining staff in unique systems like that. The small assistant pool will kill us and we'll be stuck with underperformance from assistants.

Further, the scheme itself doesn't look to me like it will translate well. It's very timing based and bigger, better defenses will disrupt that timing. I foresee a lot of small guys getting blown up on the perimeter, again. Even if it does work, though, one rule change to align CFB closer to NFL downfield blocking on forward pass rules and the offense is dead in the water. We also know it comes with bad defense and we finally got back to playing exciting defense for the first time since Tenuta. I love defensive, complimentary football.

GSU is 20 years on from the option and has never regained the level of success they had. We've proven under Key that we CAN win without a unique offensive system. The last 4 years will have been for naught if we go back to an option.

The GT brand needs to be tough, hard nosed, keep the game close and win it in the 4th football. We can do this without a unique OC-acting-as-HC guy that neglects the defensive side of the ball. Secure a good run oriented OC under a tough HC who is a good leader. Play good defense, run the damn ball, be better than your opponent in the second half, win games.

Just out of curiosity, have you watched much Ole Miss games this year? Their offensive minded head coach is running a modernized version of a triple option. My point isn’t that they are awesome it’s simply to say that Lane Kiffin has found a way to make it an exciting offense he can recruit to and be successful with at a pretty high level. It’s happening in the NFL, too. The Bills use a lot of triple option concepts in their offense as do a number of other teams. At least according to Hall of Fame former executive Bill Polian and some others I’ve heard talk about it.

It seems to me that the problem is when you don’t adapt and are rigid in what you do no matter what. And no, that’s not a dig at CPJ. It’s actually meant more generically. For example, Nick Saban was a bit slow to adapt his offense but realized he needed to in order to recruit the best offensive players and keep up with what was happening around him and so he hired Lane Kiffin.

 

[PVdad]

I may be a bit presumptuous here but I think you can look no further than Zach Pyron as our ability to recruit very good QB's to GT. He may not be a Trevor Lawrence/Justin Fields level of recruit (how many are though?) but I think he is a guy who could play (and win) at most other places. This guy looks to have a bright future and I am looking forward to seeing how he develops.

katlong said:
Perhaps we can squeak by here and there and come out with a winning record, but recruiting NFL level QBs is the name of the game if you want to run the same O as everyone else, and honestly, if you are 18 and THAT good, then you know your worth in the NFL and aren't looking for a degree from Tech. There would have to be some special connection for you to want that type of education; otherwise, you are going where you know you can be seen and can skate through college with at least not insanely difficult academic classes. Let's say I'm wrong and someone can be recruited to Tech for some reason - coach or otherwise.

By no means am I saying Zach is or will be an NFL QB, but I just want to shed a little light on this. Zach was late on the radar as a recruit due to him being tucked away at a middle classification school that ran a hybrid Gun Wing T offense. Needless to say he didn't get to throw as much and the focus at practice or the offseason was never on throwing, hence the move to a bigger school his Jr year. So really he only started consistently throwing a football his Jr year of high school. He worked his butt off and picked up a lot of things from a lot of QB coaches. He made the Elite 11 and placed very well, beating out a lot of the top ranked guys in many of the drills. Baylor jumped on Zach early (prior to Elite 11). When he commited to Baylor he shut everything down. He wouldn't even take calls from other coaches.

While he was committed to Baylor, Saban and O'Brien called him several times. This was the one school he said through it all he'd listen to. He threw for them on numerous occasions and we sat in Saban's office 3-4 times. O'Brien really liked Zach and told Saban he thought Zach's ceiling was the highest of any of the guys they were looking at. They had Ty Simpson committed and there was some uncertainty around his commitment at that time (TN was doing all they could to flip Ty and get his dad, Jason, a job at UT). Needless to say they loved Ty and thought very highly of him, but they did like Zach as well. But they had to be cautious out of fear of losing Ty. Saban looked us dead in the eyes and told us they want him to be a part of the team but at that time it was a numbers game. There was some uncertainties around Milroe and what he could give them at QB (Saban wants him on defense - heard that from Saban himself), and Paul Tyson was still enrolled, but not sure what he was going to do. So in that initial meeting Saban offered Zach a gray shirt. Zach looked him in the eye and politely told him "no thanks". They kept pushing throughout the season, having Koolaid work Zach pretty hard. They did this all the way up to early signing period, and I believe they wanted him to be a part of the class but wanted him to sign in Feb. See Bama thought they could just flip an instate kid that practically grew up in Bryant Denny (we were season ticket holders)...they have that cockiness about them when it comes to in-state kids. But Zach stood his ground and stuck with what he believed in.

Arkansas offered Zach but he wasn't feeling their recruiting tactics. UF was on the phone with him after Napier was hired pushing him to hold off his commitment and wait until Feb. Zach didn't want to do that. Collin Klein from K State absolutely loved him and was pushing hard. Joey McGuire and Zach Kittley @ Texas Tech were trying to make a late push also. And Ole Miss was at the school talking to his HC about him a ton, but coach Shade told them Zach was locked in with GT. See, once Zach committed to GT it was over. His connection to coach Key was incredible. This is very important and a huge reason Zach is at GT. It was like they had known each other for years. We knew going in that things were shaky for the current staff, but Zach just felt God was leading him to GT. Key did an exceptional job recruiting Zach. Zach felt that going to Tech he would have an opportunity to compete pretty early on. Not taking anything away from Jeff, but he felt this might be Jeff's last year at GT, so that played a big role in it. He studied the history of GT football and loved what he learned. He loved it was very close to home and that his family would be able to be around a great deal more. He is actually really big on education and he fully understands there is life after football and he is well aware of the value of a GT education.

Zach didn't pick GT as a last resort. He picked GT because he believed it was the best path for him to obtain all his goals. He believed in Brent Key and still does. Looking back on all of that now and how it's playing out, it's pretty amazing really. I say all this to say, Zach wants to be at GT. He wants to help make GT relevant again. He wants to help GT play for ACC championships and he is very, very adamant that will happen before he leaves.

About 20 minutes after the game this past Saturday Key called Zach to check in on him. He didn't have to do that, but he did because that's just the type of guy he is. Weinke also called Zach not long after the game was over. We have a huge amount of respect and love for Chris Weinke as well. He's a keeper for sure.

 

[jojatk]

"May have" sounds like it's not proven yet.

What has any coaching candidate proven? None of them have proven anything about what they could do at GT. All they’ve proven is what they have done elsewhere. Not a single thing they’ve done PROVES what they can do at GT.

I don’t have a favorite candidate for the GT job. I don’t have an agenda or an axe to grind against any of them (except maybe BOB, I just don’t like him as a candidate). Of them all the only one who has done anything at GT that is proven is Key. He has proven he can take the current team to 4 wins and 3 losses (let’s be real and say it’s almost assuredly going to be 4-4 but hey you never know).

Many of the candidates, however, have shown reason to think they have a chance to succeed at GT. Key’s reason is that he’s taken a team that was in shambles and gotten them to play as a team that hasn’t been pointing fingers at each other that had been a hallmark of the same group under the prior HC. Clark has built a program twice. Chadwell looks like a young coach who runs a modernized RPO type offense that seems to be pretty good and has had winning programs at two lower division stops that include CC. Etc…

 

[leatherneckjacket]

By no means am I saying Zach is or will be an NFL QB, but I just want to shed a little light on this. Zach was late on the radar as a recruit due to him being tucked away at a middle classification school that ran a hybrid Gun Wing T offense. Needless to say he didn't get to throw as much and the focus at practice or the offseason was never on throwing, hence the move to a bigger school his Jr year. So really he only started consistently throwing a football his Jr year of high school. He worked his butt off and picked up a lot of things from a lot of QB coaches. He made the Elite 11 and placed very well, beating out a lot of the top ranked guys in many of the drills. Baylor jumped on Zach early (prior to Elite 11). When he commited to Baylor he shut everything down. He wouldn't even take calls from other coaches.

While he was committed to Baylor, Saban and O'Brien called him several times. This was the one school he said through it all he'd listen to. He threw for them on numerous occasions and we sat in Saban's office 3-4 times. O'Brien really liked Zach and told Saban he thought Zach's ceiling was the highest of any of the guys they were looking at. They had Ty Simpson committed and there was some uncertainty around his commitment at that time (TN was doing all they could to flip Ty and get his dad, Jason, a job at UT). Needless to say they loved Ty and thought very highly of him, but they did like Zach as well. But they had to be cautious out of fear of losing Ty. Saban looked us dead in the eyes and told us they want him to be a part of the team but at that time it was a numbers game. There was some uncertainties around Milroe and what he could give them at QB (Saban wants him on defense - heard that from Saban himself), and Paul Tyson was still enrolled, but not sure what he was going to do. So in that initial meeting Saban offered Zach a gray shirt. Zach looked him in the eye and politely told him "no thanks". They kept pushing throughout the season, having Koolaid work Zach pretty hard. They did this all the way up to early signing period, and I believe they wanted him to be a part of the class but wanted him to sign in Feb. See Bama thought they could just flip an instate kid that practically grew up in Bryant Denny (we were season ticket holders)...they have that cockiness about them when it comes to in-state kids. But Zach stood his ground and stuck with what he believed in.

Arkansas offered Zach but he wasn't feeling their recruiting tactics. UF was on the phone with him after Napier was hired pushing him to hold off his commitment and wait until Feb. Zach didn't want to do that. Collin Klein from K State absolutely loved him and was pushing hard. Joey McGuire and Zach Kittley @ Texas Tech were trying to make a late push also. And Ole Miss was at the school talking to his HC about him a ton, but coach Shade told them Zach was locked in with GT. See, once Zach committed to GT it was over. His connection to coach Key was incredible. This is very important and a huge reason Zach is at GT. It was like they had known each other for years. We knew going in that things were shaky for the current staff, but Zach just felt God was leading him to GT. Key did an exceptional job recruiting Zach. Zach felt that going to Tech he would have an opportunity to compete pretty early on. Not taking anything away from Jeff, but he felt this might be Jeff's last year at GT, so that played a big role in it. He studied the history of GT football and loved what he learned. He loved it was very close to home and that his family would be able to be around a great deal more. He is actually really big on education and he fully understands there is life after football and he is well aware of the value of a GT education.

Zach didn't pick GT as a last resort. He picked GT because he believed it was the best path for him to obtain all his goals. He believed in Brent Key and still does. Looking back on all of that now and how it's playing out, it's pretty amazing really. I say all this to say, Zach wants to be at GT. He wants to help make GT relevant again. He wants to help GT play for ACC championships and he is very, very adamant that will happen before he leaves.

About 20 minutes after the game this past Saturday Key called Zach to check in on him. He didn't have to do that, but he did because that's just the type of guy he is. Weinke also called Zach not long after the game was over. We have a huge amount of respect and love for Chris Weinke as well. He's a keeper for sure.

Thank you so much for sharing that. Please give your son our best wishes to a speedy recovery.

 

[PVdad]

Thank you so much for sharing that. Please give your son our best wishes to a speedy recovery.

I most certainly will. He’s doing great.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

I most certainly will. He’s doing great.

I will add it is clear where your son gets his outstanding character. Well done, sir. and Semper Fi!

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

This is off topic...but who are we kidding? It's like herding ducks around here.

Which schools would you include? I would go for smaller schools...tougher academics...

I've got Tech, Duke, Wake, UVA, and Vandy (but only if the SEC gives them the boot). I'd also put BC in that group...except it's not Southern. Navy? Tulane?

Reality is, if the B1G and the SEC continue to expand, we're looking at a two-tier landscape whether we admit it or not.

I'm not convinced we're in the Premier League. But I'm a fan of the relegation system, so I've got that going for me.

Tech, Duke, Wake, Vandy, Rice

UVA and UF have the academic clout, but I don't think you can include them since they're the state university.

 

[PVdad]

I will add it is clear where your son gets his outstanding character. Well done, sir. and Semper Fi!

Semper Fi!

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

Just out of curiosity, have you watched much Ole Miss games this year? Their offensive minded head coach is running a modernized version of a triple option. My point isn’t that they are awesome it’s simply to say that Lane Kiffin has found a way to make it an exciting offense he can recruit to and be successful with at a pretty high level. It’s happening in the NFL, too. The Bills use a lot of triple option concepts in their offense as do a number of other teams. At least according to Hall of Fame former executive Bill Polian and some others I’ve heard talk about it.

It seems to me that the problem is when you don’t adapt and are rigid in what you do no matter what. And no, that’s not a dig at CPJ. It’s actually meant more generically. For example, Nick Saban was a bit slow to adapt his offense but realized he needed to in order to recruit the best offensive players and keep up with what was happening around him and so he hired Lane Kiffin.

I watched enough of them at Bobby Dodd for my liking. It's a very good offense. I would call them awesome as well as exciting. I wouldn't call them triple option, but I would call them modern spread and they do have some option elements (so does most every offense). We could learn a lot from Lane Kiffin.

 

[85Escape]

We could learn a lot from Lane Kiffin.

I agree. There are multiple levels to this statement, however.

 

[85Escape]

About 20 minutes after the game this past Saturday Key called Zach to check in on him. He didn't have to do that, but he did because that's just the type of guy he is. Weinke also called Zach not long after the game was over. We have a huge amount of respect and love for Chris Weinke as well. He's a keeper for sure.

Thanks for sharing that. It helps to know a bit more about what goes on behind the scene. My nephew was a first-round pitching draftee out of high-school, but as you can imagine he was very heavily recruited by the colleges. It was a crazy amount of pressure for him when he was just trying to figure out how to shave well. Before that I had zero idea about how difficult it is to be in that situation as a young man.

It sounds like Zach has a great family and strong faith to support him through all of this, thankfully.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him lead Tech back into national prominence! I'm definitely a Pyronmaniac

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Two possibilities on why Stan got it wrong…

Collins was the only coach who wanted the job at that price …

Or

Stan did continue to reinforce failure. Perhaps he was blinded by the Tech man aspect…

It’s never just the data as we are not Vulcans.

Those two options aren't mutually exclusive

 

[4shotB]

By no means am I saying Zach is or will be an NFL QB, but I just want to shed a little light on this.


Zach didn't pick GT as a last resort.

Thank you for your response. I want to clarify things in the event that you may have misunderstood my meaning. When I said he was no TL or JF, I did not mean that as a slight in any way. Just that he did not have that sort of hype around him (for whatever reason) that those kids did. My evaluation of your son might have been downplayed a bit as I hate putting any undue pressure on a young guy. WTBS however, to my untrained eye and I'll take off the kid gloves, he might be the best looking QB prospect based on his limited sample size that we may have ever had at GT in my lifetime. We have had guys who developed into truly great college QB's (Jones, Godsey, Hamilton, etc.) but this young man looks to have the complete package from the get go. I do believe that these guys are exposed to better coaching than the previous generation and seem to show up more prepared as a result. I am not saying that he becomes those guys as other factors come into play (health/injury mostly as well as coaching and coaching stability) but I am super excited about him being here. I think the sky is the limit for him and, as I say, I generally try to refrain from hyperbole for a host of reasons.