Your choice for Head Coach

[GoldZ]

AD's career >>>> fan sentiment.

 

[bobongo]

Does anyone know of data where an interim head coach parleyed into a great head coach...

O'Leary did pretty well. His record as interim was 0-3. Key stands at 4-3.

Dabo was receivers coach, then interim, then hired as HC.

 

[Randy Carson]

i didn’t know this poll was this important. wouldn’t have wasted my vote on deion then

Right?

You only get one vote, but happily, you can change your vote whenever and as often as you like.

 

[4shotB]

The data is what the data is until we get more data.

It's an odd sort of paradox. I get what you are saying. Truly. However, if this decision was simply a matter of interpreting data, why do so many people get it wrong. Including our former AD, who himself was educated at the North Avenue Trade School. There is something illogical about the process....I can attest to that as I made some mistakes hiring along the way myself (something I thought would NOT happen when I was much younger btw.)

 

[UgaBlows]

First, I have nothing against Key. He seems like an outstanding man and good coach. I see an interesting phenomenon. There is some psychology effect going on as the minute Key is selected many were hoping he would be the head coach. Why? This is a HC selection from a 3 win per seasons coaching staff for 3 seasons. I think some of this was hope that a change, any change, would produce an 8 and 4 season, a win over UGA, and a bowl (plus it is a known decision versus unknown). This outcome, of course, would be better than a 3 win season. Now it appears that GT might be 5 and 7, which is 2 wins better than 3 wins.

There are two possibilities. Either Collins was a screw up or Collins was an ok coach, but Key is a mastermind that with his actions was able to get the team to 2 extra wins. Collins as a screw up seems more applicable, He was most likely spitting in all the coaches soups. Without Collins, we see better special teams, better calls in general, and improved position groups almost imedeately. I would even say defense improved (more of a feel as I have not looked at the numbers).

The other possibility is that Key is a mastermind of a HC and immediately implemented his novel special teams plan, worked a complex strategy to get more form each position groups, and even taught Thacker a few things he was dying to do when he was the OL coach.

I think the real answer here is that Collins was a screw up and he screwed up every aspect of the team. Key is a solid coach who is not a screw up and stopped doing the crazy Collins circus.

Initially the players wanted Collins to stay. Now they want Key to stay. People vote relationship and what they know more than some unknown possibility.

This is not anti Key, this is me trying to find reality over emotion.

Does anyone know of data where an interim head coach parleyed into a great head coach... even at that, a position coach jumped to interm HC and then to HC and succeeded?

I was not excited with Collins because 2 declining seasons at Temple is not good data. Now I have data that a position coach can win at least 5 games at GT (keep in mind I like the man, its hard not too). If we are making a financial decision or no one else with better data wants the job, Key is perfect. The data is what the data is until we get more data.

Ed Ogeron at LSU won a natty but was eventually fired.

Dabo

 

[bobongo]

Right?

You only get one vote, but happily, you can change your vote whenever and as often as you like.

My first vote was for Chadwell. I would love to see his offense here, the offense I'd always hoped Paul's would evolve into. As much as I want to see that, I changed it this morning to Brent because of what he has done with this team. But if Chadwell is hired, I'll be quite happy with that, too. And I'm behind whoever is chosen.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" - Old Chinese proverb

 

[stech81]

Does anyone know of data where an interim head coach parleyed into a great head coach... even at that, a position coach jumped to interm HC and then to HC and succeeded?

Dabo 4-3 but they had money to paid for good OC and DC
Ed Orgeron 6-2 won national championship 3 year later

 

[Longestday]

It's an odd sort of paradox. I get what you are saying. Truly. However, if this decision was simply a matter of interpreting data, why do so many people get it wrong. Including our former AD, who himself was educated at the North Avenue Trade School. There is something illogical about the process....I can attest to that as I made some mistakes hiring along the way myself (something I thought would NOT happen when I was much younger btw.)

Two possibilities on why Stan got it wrong…

Collins was the only coach who wanted the job at that price …

Or

Stan did continue to reinforce failure. Perhaps he was blinded by the Tech man aspect…

It’s never just the data as we are not Vulcans.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

Here's my issue with the Chadwell possibility:

Chadwell is us repeating the Georgia Southern track post CPJ all over again, except that it will permanently link GT as the school that runs the quirky option offense. It's hard enough to overcome the "GT runs the wing T perception" that still persists outside of our fanbase. (If you don't talk to other CFB fans, we're still viewed as the triple option school). We will NEVER be able to overcome it if we hire that guy. It will become our permanent brand along with everything that comes with it: bad recruiting, limited pool of assistant coaches, horrible defense, lack of fan interest, etc.

If you sent to take a look at the trajectory we're on, you can roughly equate our CPJ years to the GSU CPJ/Sewak years, G**** ~ BVG and Hatcher, Chadwell you would expect to roughly equate to Monken and Fritz. Of course, our schedule is roughly 2 games harder each year, so that would work out to somewhere around a 6.5 game expected wins for Chadwell if the comparison holds. CPJ was the best, bringing in someone else running a triple option based scheme is never going to net better results and certainly not because it's run out of different formations and incorporates more passing.

I truly think the fans wanting Chadwell are underestimating the difficulty in maintaining staff in unique systems like that. The small assistant pool will kill us and we'll be stuck with underperformance from assistants.

Further, the scheme itself doesn't look to me like it will translate well. It's very timing based and bigger, better defenses will disrupt that timing. I foresee a lot of small guys getting blown up on the perimeter, again. Even if it does work, though, one rule change to align CFB closer to NFL downfield blocking on forward pass rules and the offense is dead in the water. We also know it comes with bad defense and we finally got back to playing exciting defense for the first time since Tenuta. I love defensive, complimentary football.

GSU is 20 years on from the option and has never regained the level of success they had. We've proven under Key that we CAN win without a unique offensive system. The last 4 years will have been for naught if we go back to an option.

The GT brand needs to be tough, hard nosed, keep the game close and win it in the 4th football. We can do this without a unique OC-acting-as-HC guy that neglects the defensive side of the ball. Secure a good run oriented OC under a tough HC who is a good leader. Play good defense, run the damn ball, be better than your opponent in the second half, win games.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

Two possibilities on why Stan got it wrong…

Collins was the only coach who wanted the job at that price …

Or

Stan did continue to reinforce failure. Perhaps he was blinded by the Tech man aspect…

It’s never just the data as we are not Vulcans.

Stan never ran a coaching search. He offered Whisenhunt without a real interview, was rejected, and G**** lobbied his way into the job.

 

[Randy Carson]

Here's my issue with the Chadwell possibility:

Chadwell is us repeating the Georgia Southern track post CPJ all over again, except that it will permanently link GT as the school that runs the quirky option offense.

I agree with a lot of your post, but I've only quoted a small portion in order to ask this question:

Does Wake Forest run a quirky option offense?

I posted previously that I talked with a former Wake Forest player recently, and he had nothing but respect for Tech and CPJ. He said they had a lot of difficulty preparing for the Tech games.

Being "different" is an advantage. (But we have beaten this to death in numerous threads.)

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

I agree with a lot of your post, but I've only quoted a small portion in order to ask this question:

Does Wake Forest run a quirky option offense?

I posted previously that I talked with a former Wake Forest player recently, and he had nothing but respect for Tech and CPJ. He said they had a lot of difficulty preparing for the Tech games.

Being "different" is an advantage. (But we have beaten this to death in numerous threads.)

Honestly, I think their offense at WF has been quirky for as long as I can remember.

Edit: not to the same extent as flexbone and CCU, though.

 

[Randy Carson]

Honestly, I think their offense at WF has been quirky for as long as I can remember.

Edit: not to the same extent as flexbone and CCU, though.

So, it's not just Tech then.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

So, it's not just Tech then.

It's an interesting point. I was talking to a Clemson booster (who grew up a Tech fan before going to CU) recently about how with NIL it would probably be beneficial to have the "Southern Ivys" break away to form their own league.

 

[katlong]

Here's my issue with the Chadwell possibility:

Chadwell is us repeating the Georgia Southern track post CPJ all over again, except that it will permanently link GT as the school that runs the quirky option offense. It's hard enough to overcome the "GT runs the wing T perception" that still persists outside of our fanbase. (If you don't talk to other CFB fans, we're still viewed as the triple option school). We will NEVER be able to overcome it if we hire that guy. It will become our permanent brand along with everything that comes with it: bad recruiting, limited pool of assistant coaches, horrible defense, lack of fan interest, etc.

If you sent to take a look at the trajectory we're on, you can roughly equate our CPJ years to the GSU CPJ/Sewak years, G**** ~ BVG and Hatcher, Chadwell you would expect to roughly equate to Monken and Fritz. Of course, our schedule is roughly 2 games harder each year, so that would work out to somewhere around a 6.5 game expected wins for Chadwell if the comparison holds. CPJ was the best, bringing in someone else running a triple option based scheme is never going to net better results and certainly not because it's run out of different formations and incorporates more passing.

I truly think the fans wanting Chadwell are underestimating the difficulty in maintaining staff in unique systems like that. The small assistant pool will kill us and we'll be stuck with underperformance from assistants.

Further, the scheme itself doesn't look to me like it will translate well. It's very timing based and bigger, better defenses will disrupt that timing. I foresee a lot of small guys getting blown up on the perimeter, again. Even if it does work, though, one rule change to align CFB closer to NFL downfield blocking on forward pass rules and the offense is dead in the water. We also know it comes with bad defense and we finally got back to playing exciting defense for the first time since Tenuta. I love defensive, complimentary football.

GSU is 20 years on from the option and has never regained the level of success they had. We've proven under Key that we CAN win without a unique offensive system. The last 4 years will have been for naught if we go back to an option.

The GT brand needs to be tough, hard nosed, keep the game close and win it in the 4th football. We can do this without a unique OC-acting-as-HC guy that neglects the defensive side of the ball. Secure a good run oriented OC under a tough HC who is a good leader. Play good defense, run the damn ball, be better than your opponent in the second half, win games.

I can see your point about D disrupting timing. I have my doubts about Chadwell as well; however, I don't think that we've proven we can win under Key without a gimmick CONSISTENTLY. Perhaps we can squeak by here and there and come out with a winning record, but recruiting NFL level QBs is the name of the game if you want to run the same O as everyone else, and honestly, if you are 18 and THAT good, then you know your worth in the NFL and aren't looking for a degree from Tech. There would have to be some special connection for you to want that type of education; otherwise, you are going where you know you can be seen and can skate through college with at least not insanely difficult academic classes. Let's say I'm wrong and someone can be recruited to Tech for some reason - coach or otherwise. Chances are now with the transfer portal, he's gone as soon as he makes a mark or finds we aren't winning a LOT. (I have NO bones with Gibbs transferring; we were not using him and he is NFL level talent, but he's a prime example of how that rule works against schools like us)

Additionally, if you look at the spend in college football, we cannot keep up with the Bama and UGAs of the world now. It's the have and have nots and we will never have again. Until the NCAA puts a cap on spend, nothing will be equal. Not to mention the transfer portal.

Mostly what I want is a coach that can do more with less 4 and 5 star talent. Whatever that means in terms of O scheme, that's what I think has to happen because it's hard to recruit AND retain in this environment. I think Key is a good HC, but he needs a new OC for sure!

Football is blocking and tackling. Run the ball, and play big boy football all 4 quarters: That's the key to any game, any scheme.

 

[yeti92]

My first vote was for Chadwell. I would love to see his offense here, the offense I'd always hoped Paul's would evolve into. As much as I want to see that, I changed it this morning to Brent because of what he has done with this team. But if Chadwell is hired, I'll be quite happy with that, too. And I'm behind whoever is chosen.

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" - Old Chinese proverb

Yes but is what we have a bird, or is it just not a turd?

 

[Longestday]

GSU is 20 years on from the option and has never regained the level of success they had. We've proven under Key that we CAN win without a unique offensive system. The last 4 years will have been for naught if we go back to an option.

Slight fix:
GSU is ***(20 - strike) 7*** years on from the option and has never regained the level of success they had *** since they stopped using the option ***. (Monken left in 2013)

We've proven under Key that we CAN *** achieve 5*** win(s) without a unique offensive system.

______

Many programs have difficulty replacing a successful coach. GSU is not the only program to do great things and have difficulty following suite. GSU is not known as the triple option school. If you look at the data of their seasons, you might see they chose emotionally and poorly.



Jamey's system is more mainstream than CPJs. Shotgun, normal looking lineups, normal blocking, and 40% pass. Not all schools are running traditional NFL offenses.

I grant you that we don't know how Jamey's offense will translate 100%. Fritz being a good point of higher success at GSU and not as much at Tulane with a similar offense.

Our defense while improved is not a juggernaut. I hope Saturday proves me wrong. Jamey's defense may be worse.

Hiring a new coach is always a gamble. Jamey or Key may win 5 games a year for the next 3 years. GT will always be GT until someone does something different at the school and program.

 

[4shotB]

Perhaps we can squeak by here and there and come out with a winning record, but recruiting NFL level QBs is the name of the game if you want to run the same O as everyone else, and honestly, if you are 18 and THAT good, then you know your worth in the NFL and aren't looking for a degree from Tech. There would have to be some special connection for you to want that type of education; otherwise, you are going where you know you can be seen and can skate through college with at least not insanely difficult academic classes. Let's say I'm wrong and someone can be recruited to Tech for some reason - coach or otherwise.

I may be a bit presumptuous here but I think you can look no further than Zach Pyron as our ability to recruit very good QB's to GT. He may not be a Trevor Lawrence/Justin Fields level of recruit (how many are though?) but I think he is a guy who could play (and win) at most other places. This guy looks to have a bright future and I am looking forward to seeing how he develops.

 

[Randy Carson]

It's an interesting point. I was talking to a Clemson booster (who grew up a Tech fan before going to CU) recently about how with NIL it would probably be beneficial to have the "Southern Ivys" break away to form their own league.

This is off topic...but who are we kidding? It's like herding ducks around here.

Which schools would you include? I would go for smaller schools...tougher academics...

I've got Tech, Duke, Wake, UVA, and Vandy (but only if the SEC gives them the boot). I'd also put BC in that group...except it's not Southern. Navy? Tulane?

Reality is, if the B1G and the SEC continue to expand, we're looking at a two-tier landscape whether we admit it or not.

I'm not convinced we're in the Premier League. But I'm a fan of the relegation system, so I've got that going for me.

 

[yeti92]

Here's my issue with the Chadwell possibility:

Chadwell is us repeating the Georgia Southern track post CPJ all over again, except that it will permanently link GT as the school that runs the quirky option offense. It's hard enough to overcome the "GT runs the wing T perception" that still persists outside of our fanbase. (If you don't talk to other CFB fans, we're still viewed as the triple option school). We will NEVER be able to overcome it if we hire that guy. It will become our permanent brand along with everything that comes with it: bad recruiting, limited pool of assistant coaches, horrible defense, lack of fan interest, etc.

Stop talking to dumbass CFB fans who have no bearing on anything that actually happens in CFB. You are letting their ignorance contribute to your bad judgement.

If you sent to take a look at the trajectory we're on, you can roughly equate our CPJ years to the GSU CPJ/Sewak years, G**** ~ BVG and Hatcher, Chadwell you would expect to roughly equate to Monken and Fritz. Of course, our schedule is roughly 2 games harder each year, so that would work out to somewhere around a 6.5 game expected wins for Chadwell if the comparison holds. CPJ was the best, bringing in someone else running a triple option based scheme is never going to net better results and certainly not because it's run out of different formations and incorporates more passing.

This is such a stretch of a comparison it shouldn't even have been posted. Trying to estimate a coach's win total based on a completely different set of coaches doing something different 20 years ago, really? Just a really, really poor argument. The "CPJ was the best and no one can do better" argument is nonsense as well, they are not doing the same thing. This is a horribly flawed argument spouted by people who hate the option, that's it. Should Alabama have shut down their program after Bear Bryant because he was the best and no one could do better?

We also know it comes with bad defense and we finally got back to playing exciting defense for the first time since Tenuta. I love defensive, complimentary football.

We don't know that. Nothing about the offense inherently sets up to have an accompanying bad defense.

GSU is 20 years on from the option and has never regained the level of success they had. We've proven under Key that we CAN win without a unique offensive system. The last 4 years will have been for naught if we go back to an option.

I don't think we can claim anything has been proven under Key, he's won 4 games that all required some luck, and lost to two terrible opponents at home and got blasted by a good opponent. That's it.