WTF are the Hawks doing?

[SteamWhistle]

2 Years ago...
#1 team in the East.
Beat a Tough Washington team to advance to the Eastern Finals for the first time ever.
Lost to a loaded Cavs team had no chances after the Carroll injury in game 1.

Last year...
Let the only player on our team that could play LeBron 1 on 1 go. (Carroll)
Signed Tiago Splitter... WTF
Had an OK, (AT BEST) season.
Once again swept by the Cavs because we have NO ONE who could slow LeBron down. Tried putting undersized Bazemore on LBJ, yeah of course it didn't work.

This year... (Yeah its already bad.)
Let our two best players go. Teague and Horford.
Signed a washed up Dwight Howard. (Dwight might turn out to be decent but probably not.)
Finally made a smart move by Signing a Veteran PG in Jack, who was yesterday CUT BY THE HAWKS!!!

Is Schroder and Dwight really our answer to being 0-12 vs the Cavs the last 3 series.
A starting five of :
Schroder Kover Baze Paul Dwight.
YUCK.

At least the Falcons are decent this year. I fear the Hawks will have a similar year to the Braves.

 

[kg01]

I won't say I'm on board with what they've done but I do understand the moves.

1 - No iteration of the Hawks roster, healthy or not, was going to beat CLE. They would've been competitive with a healthy DMC but that's it.

2 - Because of the deals Ferry signed DMC and Millsap to, they did not have Bird rights on either. IOW, they couldn't go over cap to sign them. They had to use their capspace which meant you had to decide between the 2. That's why DMC is gone. They lost him although they never really wanted to. They never wanted Bazemore to be the primary defender on Lebron but such is life.

3 - Keeping Millsap was the easy decision as he's quietly become arguably the best 2-way pf in the league (outside Lebron). Don't give me Draymond Green either. He's talented but is aided tremendously by that system and roster. Plus, I challenge anyone to actually look at def eff. ratings for pf's from the 2nd half of last year. Green is good but vastly overrated.

4 - On Dwight, it's a question of health. He's done if you're expecting to get the guy from the dunk contest years ago. He's coming off multiple years where he wasn't healthy but played anyway. On top of that, he played with Kobe/Harden who are ball-dominant guards who literally ignored him offensively. On top of that, he played for coaches who had no plans on using him effectively. You CANNOT just throw the ball to him in the post and "let him go to work". For better or worse, that is not his game. Again, for better or worse, Atlanta is not planning on using him that way. They are planning on employing the version of the SAntonio system which closely resembles what ORL did with Howard when he was actually effective. Putting him in PnR action with Schroder, allowing him to dive to the rim and/or utilizing early action to get him easy looks.

5 - Jack is not healthy, thus he was cut. If he was, he'd be on the roster as he is a perfect fit for what they need.

Hawks will be fine although they will get off to a slow start. They'll end up in the 2-4 range most likely. A lot of EC teams are getting crazily overrated. BOS, IND, TOR, DET are spoken of as if they're on CLE's tier but they are decidedly not.

 

[BuzzStone]

The bigest problem is the Hawks don't have the king. Look at what the warriors threw at trying to beat the king. It is just not a good financial move to try to compete at his level. The hawks should save some money for when he retires and be prepared to pay some massive luxury tax when he retires and build a dream team then.

 

[ChasonBaller]

I can't stand Al "tempur-pedic" Horford....due to his softness and unwillingness to rebound...so I was happy with the Dwight signing. I truly believe what Dwight is saying about him trying to change and that he is a new person, but time will tell. I love Baze(bc unlike Al, he shows effort) but wish he could be at the 2 and Korver as 6th man. I think Prince will be at the 3 sooner than later and an all star but for now we will stick with what we have. Prediction: THJ will break out this year then walk in free agency, Thabo shoots 50% from 3, Tiago plays less than 20 games, Trillsap and Dwight are All Stars, and German chocolate gets a 5 year extension while averaging 13 and 7.

 

[Milwaukee]

Dwight was the worst acquisition of the off season. Can't believe we fell for that guy.

 

[kg01]

Dwight was the worst acquisition of the off season. Can't believe we fell for that guy.

In a league where the Knicks are paying Noah what they're paying him (for 4 years!), the Lakers are paying Deng/Mozgoz more $$ and more years, Dallas is paying Barnes like his name is Lebron Durant and Portland maxed out their cap for their backups; Howard's deal is actually one of the best offseason acquisitions.

 

[jeffgt14]

And we have $175mil invested into Nick Batum and Marvin Williams for the next few years...

 

[kg01]

And we have $175mil invested into Nick Batum and Marvin Williams for the next few years...

Ah man, I heard Clifford interviewed after re-signing Batum ("after" he signed, so he didn't have to lie to keep him) and he said Batum is the team's #1 option on offense. As in 'scoring' option. Yikes.

Marvo is actually pretty decent for y'all. Think about it. You could be paying max for his level production the way DAL is with Barnes.

 

[jeffgt14]

Ah man, I heard Clifford interviewed after re-signing Batum ("after" he signed, so he didn't have to lie to keep him) and he said Batum is the team's #1 option on offense. As in 'scoring' option. Yikes.

Marvo is actually pretty decent for y'all. Think about it. You could be paying max for his level production the way DAL is with Barnes.

Yeah I guess it $55mil for 4 years sounds a lot more than it really is in the NBA these days. Batum’s offense is not even a half of 1 Kemba

 

[ChasonBaller]

And we have $175mil invested into Nick Batum and Marvin Williams for the next few years...

I miss Ryan Cameron yelling "MARVINNNNNNNN"

 

[kg01]

Yeah I guess it $55mil for 4 years sounds a lot more than it really is in the NBA these days. Batum’s offense is not even a half of 1 Kemba

Yeah, Batum is a complimentary piece. What you expecting from the HorCats this season?

I miss Ryan Cameron yelling "MARVINNNNNNNN"

I bet you don't miss DuckButt flopping all over the place at the slightest whiff of contact tho.

Nah, I'm glad he's found a place in the league. He belongs, he just isn't (never was) the star the hawks needed him to be as the #2 pick.

We need a '16-17 NBA season thread!

 

[jeffgt14]

Yeah, Batum is a complimentary piece. What you expecting from the HorCats this season?

Probably the same everyone else in the east not named the Cavs or Bulls. Make the playoffs and lose in the first round.

 

[Techster]

The REAL problem with the Hawks isn't personnel, it's that all these NBA players LOVE hanging out and living in Atlanta but no one wants to play for the NBA franchise. The Hawks actually had money to spend last offseason, but couldn't even get someone like Durant to come here to kiss his butt.

Instead we got Dwight Howard with all his baggage on his last patched up wheel. The same guy who in his prime pretty laughed at Atlanta when he was actually a force in the NBA.

 

[kg01]

Probably the same everyone else in the east not named the Cavs or Bulls. Make the playoffs and lose in the first round.

Lol. Now I'm curious as to why you put the Bulls with the Cavs? Bulls gonna be a trainwreck and Hoiberg is in danger of having a heart attack dealing with that collection of egos.

The REAL problem with the Hawks isn't personnel, it's that all these NBA players LOVE hanging out and living in Atlanta but no one wants to play for the NBA franchise. The Hawks actually had money to spend last offseason, but couldn't even get someone like Durant to come here to kiss his butt.

Instead we got Dwight Howard with all his baggage on his last patched up wheel. The same guy who in his prime pretty laughed at Atlanta when he was actually a force in the NBA.

Ah man, this hurts 'cause it's kinda true-ish. Curse you, Techster.

I'll say this. The Hawks' problem in the past was management/ownership (aka the "clownership") and history of winning (as in the lack thereof). Dysfunction and ineptitude with the clownership had every players' attention.

Why would a free agent risk/waste their prime years watching things like the owners in court literally fighting the idea of signing a player to a contract? Then that player (Joe Johnson) has to play for a clownership group that he knows literally never wanted to trade for him. This was his 1st deal coming from PHX, not the last one he signed. The Dominique trade still has players' attention. For better or worse, Nique was the Hawks and they still traded him. That's what players thought.

Fortunately, the new owners are aware of that stigma and are working to correct it. That's why re-signing Bazemore was important. That's why signing Howard (even now) was important. It goes toward reversing a tremendously negative impression the franchise has among players.

Now on to the more important issue ... winning history (or lack thereof). Players go places for 2 main reasons, money and potential for winning (which gets them more money theoretically). I think I saw something that said, since the '80's, there have only been like 8-9 franchises that have won titles. Over 30+ years! There's a historical lack of parity in the league which causes players to gravitate to certain franchises. No matter how much capspace the Hawks had, they could never overcome the notion that, "Meh, Hawks don't win nothin. Pass." Hopefully, the Budz era will go towards changing this but it's gonna take time.

 

[jeffgt14]

Maybe it’s just me but I’ve never been that sold on Durant as an elite player. I put him with Melo where he racks up the stats but doesn’t seem to make anyone around him better or have the ability to completely take over the game. I’d take Westbrook over Durant in a heartbeat. It’s just too bad OKC doesn’t even have 1 other player on their roster capable of scoring (sorry Morrow). Even like an Arron Aflallo that could average about 13-15 with the capability of putting 25+ up every now and then would do that team wonders.

 

[jeffgt14]

Lol. Now I'm curious as to why you put the Bulls with the Cavs? Bulls gonna be a trainwreck and Hoiberg is in danger of having a heart attack dealing with that collection of egos.

Because it’s the East and although they would probably finish 8th in the West, they’ll probably still finish 3rd in the East behind Cleveland and Toronto.

 

[kg01]

Because it’s the East and although they would probably finish 8th in the West, they’ll probably still finish 3rd in the East behind Cleveland and Toronto.

I think the East is deeper than the West now. I just think CHI will implexplode at some point.

Also, I kinda agree with you on Durant. He's far better than Melo, however, he's soft and has been protected his whole career. Meaning no one faulted him when OKC failed. They always took shots at Westbrook who, for all his faults, took it like a man. Well, like a man with a IDGAF attitude. Durant just always slinked off in the corner.

If you really looked at their losses, it was Durant faltering late and wilting under the pressure. He's gonna be in for a rude awakening this year because the pass he's had is gone and the pressure will be real this season.

 

[Techster]

Lol. Now I'm curious as to why you put the Bulls with the Cavs? Bulls gonna be a trainwreck and Hoiberg is in danger of having a heart attack dealing with that collection of egos.



Ah man, this hurts 'cause it's kinda true-ish. Curse you, Techster.

I'll say this. The Hawks' problem in the past was management/ownership (aka the "clownership") and history of winning (as in the lack thereof). Dysfunction and ineptitude with the clownership had every players' attention.

Why would a free agent risk/waste their prime years watching things like the owners in court literally fighting the idea of signing a player to a contract? Then that player (Joe Johnson) has to play for a clownership group that he knows literally never wanted to trade for him. This was his 1st deal coming from PHX, not the last one he signed. The Dominique trade still has players' attention. For better or worse, Nique was the Hawks and they still traded him. That's what players thought.

Fortunately, the new owners are aware of that stigma and are working to correct it. That's why re-signing Bazemore was important. That's why signing Howard (even now) was important. It goes toward reversing a tremendously negative impression the franchise has among players.

Now on to the more important issue ... winning history (or lack thereof). Players go places for 2 main reasons, money and potential for winning (which gets them more money theoretically). I think I saw something that said, since the '80's, there have only been like 8-9 franchises that have won titles. Over 30+ years! There's a historical lack of parity in the league which causes players to gravitate to certain franchises. No matter how much capspace the Hawks had, they could never overcome the notion that, "Meh, Hawks don't win nothin. Pass." Hopefully, the Budz era will go towards changing this but it's gonna take time.

The Hawks were fairly competitive for stretches. You had the 'Nique years when we couldn't get by the Celtics. Then we had the Lenny Wilkins/Mookie/Steve Smith/Mutumbo years when we couldn't get past the Bulls. Now we have the Coach Bud years that were pretty darn successful but...Lebron. I just looked it up...in the Hawk's 61 seasons of existence, we've made the playoffs 45 times. That's a pretty decent clip.

We also had Billy Knight era...which I refer to as the biggest waste of high draft picks since fantasy sports was invented except he was playing with real draft picks. F you Billy Knight...

One thing that's been consistent with the Hawks. We've run into once in a generation players who would destroy us in the playoffs and we react by blowing up our roster and starting over. Hopefully, as you alluded to, Coach Bud and his system will help us be less player dependent and atleast we can still be competitive during times we don't have that franchise star player or players.

 

[jeffgt14]

I think the East is deeper than the West now. I just think CHI will implexplode at some point.

Also, I kinda agree with you on Durant. He's far better than Melo, however, he's soft and has been protected his whole career. Meaning no one faulted him when OKC failed. They always took shots at Westbrook who, for all his faults, took it like a man. Well, like a man with a IDGAF attitude. Durant just always slinked off in the corner.

If you really looked at their losses, it was Durant faltering late and wilting under the pressure. He's gonna be in for a rude awakening this year because the pass he's had is gone and the pressure will be real this season.

Durant will do fine in GS. He’ll just be a puzzle piece though on a loaded team. I don’t see the East being that deep. GS, Portland, Spurs, and Clippers would run circles around everyone in the East outside of Cleveland and Toronto. Hell even Utah would probably finish 3rd in the east.

 

[kg01]

Durant will do fine in GS. He’ll just be a puzzle piece though on a loaded team. I don’t see the East being that deep. GS, Portland, Spurs, and Clippers would run circles around everyone in the East outside of Cleveland and Toronto. Hell even Utah would probably finish 3rd in the east.

The West is GState, LAC, SA. That's it. Everyone else is comparable to any of the 2-8 in the East. POR is getting vastly overrated too. They had 3 guys have career years and contract years all at the same time last season. Aminu had a career year. Now everybody's paid. No way they all come back hungry. Evan Turner will help them, but they're prime for a dip. They'll be good but they're not a contender.

I like Utah but they're so injury-riddled. Hayward will miss time with the freak hand injury, but I expect Gobert to miss time since he always does. Favors isn't healthy. Alec Burks' knee isn't fully healed which is a problem because it's been about a year. That said, they've built a good squad.