Will Roof get the message??????

[33jacket]

Coach agrees, he said so on his radio program. "We need to challenge them (receivers) more. Make them beat you..."

Again, we have a scheme problem.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Again, we have a scheme problem.

I don't know if it's scheme as much as it is making the right defensive call at the right time. If that's scheme, I stand corrected.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I'm a roof fan. And think he's a better coach than most give credit. I do think he has been too conservative / soft on corner coverage. Agree we have to tighten that up quite a bit. We will get burned some...but are getting burned now anyway and giving up easy pitch n catch underneath stuff too.

DJ White is legit in my opinion...and I think he'd flourish more if allowed to play more aggressive. He for damn sure has enough football speed to make up ground even if he loses a step playing bump n run. I'd like to see our corners play tighter with safety help deep. I'm sure that would hurt our run D a bit but think we could using our LBers as much in pass defense, which is not their strength.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

First see my other reply to you on how important players being in the right position to make a tackle improves tackling. Certain types of schemes can help that.

Second let me point out we had this same discussion in 2011. It was the jimmy and joes, and we just were flat out bad up front. Yet, we altered the scheme and low and behold week over week improved on D. With the same "bad joes". Oh really...bad joes? Lets see. Barnes is in the NFL. Sneezy, in the NFL. Dieke...in the NFL, watts, in the nfl, thomas was in the nfl but an awesome player. So was it bad joes? How does a D improve mid year on a flip of a hat if scheme isn't important? Now were they world beaters...no....were they statistically significant in improvement YES.

You know what? On this D? Right now...Gotsis will have a nfl shot as a SDE. Freeman may not be an nfl player, but he will be every bit as productive as sneezy. Green is a serviceable 1tech and has done actually a good job this year...held double teams nicely. The other end is a dumpster fire you and I know that. But the point is....that DL is not a 118 in the country DL. Maybe a 60 in the country DL. Look at the teams from 60-80 in the country in a few of the D categories and really tell me we have FAR less talent, DOUBLE the less talent?

This is my point. DO YOU REALIZE WE ARE DEAD LAST IN THE COUNTRY IN POWER 5 D?

Hear that again. LAST. So are you really saying our talent is that bad? No f-in way. This is the problem with this debate. The perspective I am taking isn't roof to Tenuta....I am saying Roof to just being a top 60 D.

If I was saying roof to tenuta, ie top 30 d with this talent. You guys are right. There is NO WAY.

I am saying, that with this talent, under JT this is a top 60 D. And I believe it. Under roof it won't be.

Hold on, who was saying in 2011 it was Jimmies and Joes? All I remember is most everybody saying Groh was a clueless old man who was out of touch with reality. Right now, we have one "maybe" NFL talent on the whole D and that's Gotsis who's still learning the game. Freeman is a true frosh who's best days are way ahead of him. The level of talent on D on these two teams is in no way comparable. As far as playing below our talent level, I agree with you. Most of that is on the D staff, but not all of it. Some guys fail to realize their full potentials on well coached teams, too.

 

[slugboy]

I'm a roof fan. And think he's a better coach than most give credit. I do think he has been too conservative / soft on corner coverage. Agree we have to tighten that up quite a bit. We will get burned some...but are getting burned now anyway and giving up easy pitch n catch underneath stuff too.

DJ White is legit in my opinion...and I think he'd flourish more if allowed to play more aggressive. He for damn sure has enough football speed to make up ground even if he loses a step playing bump n run. I'd like to see our corners play tighter with safety help deep. I'm sure that would hurt our run D a bit but think we could using our LBers as much in pass defense, which is not their strength.

We were getting burned in the first three games playing tight coverage, and we pulled our corners back and played solid against VT and UM, letting them make mistakes in front of us. Then we started getting burned in loose coverage against Duke and UNC. Now, we're getting more aggressive again.

 

[InsideLB]

I hear you....remember friendship in coaching is many times bigger than the quality of the coach

He look, I get we can use more talent. Who can't? But are we 118 bad in talent? No FREAKING WAY. And that is part of my point. We should be a mid 60s D that is not a ridiculous expectation. In fact its a sad one threal McCoy.at mediocrity at that level IS the expectation. We are that...and we are still undefeated.

Your second point is your stronger argument. It does seem that we should be better than our ranking. That I'll buy.

The first point I do not buy at all. Sure like any profession networking in coaching is important and who you know, liKe and are comfortable with has a bearing on who you hire. However coaches are highly competitive, career-oriented, and have tremendous economic incentive and social pressure to win. No way BOB and GOL hire Roof without a strong professional belief he is a good DC.

Your firstpoint has my attention though. I have wondered some about Coach Speed and how qualified he really is, and perhaps yes in the face of our personnel and depth issues TR isn't pulling the right levers.

It will be interesting to see if we can make some improvement to end the season.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I am sitting on the fence. We are on our third DC in the last 6 years. All 3 did not fall off the turnip truck and land on our door step.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I am sitting on the fence. We are on our third DC in the last 6 years. All 3 did not fall off the turnip truck and land on our door step.

Right. All three did not have 5 DL's leave unexpectedly in the offseason, either.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

For the argument re: Tenuta's talent vs. Roof's.... NONE of Tenuta's players came in studs. Michael Johnson had to be bulked up, Robo too... Wheeler was light in the pants, Guyton took a few years to develop, etc. KaMichael Hall was waaaaay undersized but coached to maximize his talents.

At DB, Chris Reis was a workaholic who took to good coaching and put in blue collar performances, and this helped him with the Saints as well.

I believe those guys are still on the roster, but like diamonds in the hands of an incompetent jeweler, they aren't being polished as well.

@vamosjackets do you think this is fair to say?

 

[33jacket]

Right. All three did not have 5 DL's leave unexpectedly in the offseason, either.

Right but under jt he had flunkgate and the same program and he had success. Why? Better scheme and coaching. Better talent evaluation. Better development. A true system to play in and develop in. Like bud fosters.

We have had no true good system
Our evaluation has been poor
Our coaching and scheme is avg at best
Our player development has been so so.

Add a DC that is below avg and this is what you get.

 

[33jacket]

Hold on, who was saying in 2011 it was Jimmies and Joes? All I remember is most everybody saying Groh was a clueless old man who was out of touch with reality. Right now, we have one "maybe" NFL talent on the whole D and that's Gotsis who's still learning the game. Freeman is a true frosh who's best days are way ahead of him. The level of talent on D on these two teams is in no way comparable. As far as playing below our talent level, I agree with you. Most of that is on the D staff, but not all of it. Some guys fail to realize their full potentials on well coached teams, too.

A ton of people. Just go back and read the jimmy joe fan posts. Its the same stuff being heard today. Dont have temp amnesia.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

In particular I remember the lamentations about how awful our DL was, how Barnes was the worst big man in history, how our LBs were too small/stiff to play, how our DBs weren't Kenny Scott or Word-Daniels, etc.

 

[33jacket]

In particular I remember the lamentations about how awful our DL was, how Barnes was the worst big man in history, how our LBs were too small/stiff to play, how our DBs weren't Kenny Scott or Word-Daniels, etc.

Exactly. Thanks for no amnesia.

Its the same discussion 3 years later. Only now our d is ranked far worse.

I am convinced we dont have top 30 talent. I am convinced we have every bit of top 60 talent.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Right but under jt he had flunkgate and the same program and he had success. Why? Better scheme and coaching. Better talent evaluation. Better development. A true system to play in and develop in. Like bud fosters.

We have had no true good system
Our evaluation has been poor
Our coaching and scheme is avg at best
Our player development has been so so.

Add a DC that is below avg and this is what you get.

Give us those 5 guys who should have been here and our D is vastly different, I'm not so sure you can say the same thing about the guys lost in Flunkgate. We'd be undefeated right now with most of them blowouts.

As far as recruiting goes, Roof has only been here 2 years, the guys we have starting now are on the previous DC. All indications say we've gotten much better in recruiting since Roof came aboard. I'm not sure you want to use recruiting as a reason to get rid of Roof.

I'm sure our scheme is heavily influenced by our personnel. Nobody was complaining about Roof's ability to scheme up in Penn or down in UCF.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

A ton of people. Just go back and read the jimmy joe fan posts. Its the same stuff being heard today. Dont have temp amnesia.

Nope, maybe a few, but the overwhelming majority pinned it squarely on Groh.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

Nope, maybe a few, but the overwhelming majority pinned it squarely on Groh.

I disagree. People were excited when we got Groh and a lot of the talk was about getting the right players, etc. It wasn't until late 2011 that they turned on Groh, and even then it wasn't strong. We opened 2012 giving up 17, 3, and 20 in games against VT, D-2 school, and UVA, and people thought his scheme was finally clicking, at least in the parts of the web I haunted.

 

[orientalnc]

I am not happy with our defense this season, but we all knew the DL was decimated in the off season and we now have inexperienced and undersized guys playing a lot of minutes there. It affects how everyone plays their position. There isn't much scheming you can do to overcome a lack of talent and experience.

 

[33jacket]

Your second point is your stronger argument. It does seem that we should be better than our ranking. That I'll buy.

The first point I do not buy at all. Sure like any profession networking in coaching is important and who you know, liKe and are comfortable with has a bearing on who you hire. However coaches are highly competitive, career-oriented, and have tremendous economic incentive and social pressure to win. No way BOB and GOL hire Roof without a strong professional belief he is a good DC.

Your firstpoint has my attention though. I have wondered some about Coach Speed and how qualified he really is, and perhaps yes in the face of our personnel and depth issues TR isn't pulling the right levers.

It will be interesting to see if we can make some improvement to end the season.

A good buddy of mine was the head coach of a big east school for 7 years in basketball. In private he admitted to keeping a certain coach on staff due to be a buddy. Yes he worked. But he was just an ok coach. True story.

It happens. Alot. Coaches have jobs even though they stink more from network than evidence. Just like the job world.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I am not happy with our defense this season, but we all knew the DL was decimated in the off season and we now have inexperienced and undersized guys playing a lot of minutes there. It affects how everyone plays their position. There isn't much scheming you can do to overcome a lack of talent and experience.

There are 60+ power 5 teams, and we are among the worst, if not the worst. Do I really need to go find another team with injuries/attrition that has overcome them to disprove that? You CAN scheme around talent deficiencies.

 

[TomOReilly]

We are 6-2 with only the UNC game being the loss with a D failure. We are in better position than many teams despite or D woes. What is needed is adjustment based on the past few games. Our opponents seem to be adjusting to our bend protocol. I feel both CPJ and CTR know this and will adjust themselves. I do think the timing of this adjustment is as important to maximize impact to the game we will really need it. I would like to think, CTR can turn it on as quickly as the next play to get us to 9-3.