Why we had a 7-6 record

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Come on cheese! You tell me what games Tevin wins in 2013 if he is the starting QB.
VT - nope. Tevin lost to them for two years. He lost last season when our D held them to 17 points.
Miami - nope. We got beat soundly even with Miami's 5 turnovers.
BYU - nope. Russel Wilson couldn't have won that game for us.
UGA - nope. The only reason we had the big lead was because we surprised them in the passing game. Tevin couldn't have made those throws.
Clemson - nope. They were out of our league.
Ole Miss - maybe. I doubt it though. Once Nkemdiche (sp?) entered the game he shut our offense down.

With Tevin, we were a 7 win team for 2.5 seasons. I just can't understand the logic that says we would have been better with him.

I know it is popular know to lay all the blame at the feet of Vad now that he is gone, but the truth is our vaunted offensive line let defenders pour through this season like a screen door on a submarine. Vad was indecisive because he generally was trying to read 2 or 3 D lineman moments after the snap - instead of just reading the one. Granted - we had injuries and they were hurt. But they would have been hurt if Tevin played as well. We would have still finished 7-6, and we would still be saying "wait till next year"!
I disagree with you and agree with DCS. Tevin would have been an improvement over Vad Lee for the 2013 season. But DCS will not agree with me going foreward because I feel that Vad Lee digressed from 2012 thru 2013, and then out the door. He was definitely "coached down". I believe in his own mind, Vad saw himself and his talents degrading the longer he was in our program. But just the fact that this debate is taking place is scary. That it is open for discussion that Tevin was actually a better fit than the "Savior Vad Lee" is sobering. And here is the kicker: Justin Thomas could not beat out Vad Lee. Are we going to be discussing the games we wished we had Vad back for at the end of the 2014 season?
 
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I don't want to come off as someone who dislikes Tevin. I thought he gave us everything he had. The records you refer to prove that. He is a fine representative for Tech. I have just always maintained his skill set was somewhat limited.
With the exception of three or four Tech qb's over the last 60 years, they all had skill sets that were "somewhat" or even "significantly" limited. Didn't keep a lot of them from being outstanding performers and team leaders.
 

Techster

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That it is open for discussion that Tevin was actually a better fit than the "Savior Vad Lee" is sobering. And here is the kicker: Justin Thomas could not beat out Vad Lee. Are we going to be discussing the games we wished we had Vad back for at the end of the 2014 season?

Well, according to some on this board, JT is a 5 star QB for our offense. So quit your worrying man!
 

91Wreck

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I disagree with you and agree with DCS. Tevin would have been an improvement over Vad Lee for the 2013 season. But DCS will not agree with me going foreward because I feel that Vad Lee digressed from 2012 thru 2013, and then out the door. He was definitely "coached down". I believe in his own mind, Vad saw himself and his talents degrading the longer he was in our program. But just the fact that this debate is taking place is scary. That it is open for discussion that Tevin was actually a better fit than the "Savior Vad Lee" is sobering. And here is the kicker: Justin Thomas could not beat out Vad Lee. Are we going to be discussing the games we wished we had Vad back for at the end of the 2014 season?
Whether or not Tevin would have been an improvement is certainly a real possibility. I don't necessarily disagree with that premise. But the question I posed is "would it have mattered with our final record"? I still say no.
 

GT Man

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I don't want to come off as someone who dislikes Tevin. I thought he gave us everything he had. The records you refer to prove that. He is a fine representative for Tech. I have just always maintained his skill set was somewhat limited.

Fair enough. No argument here.
 

dressedcheeseside

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And here is the kicker: Justin Thomas could not beat out Vad Lee. Are we going to be discussing the games we wished we had Vad back for at the end of the 2014 season?
This means nothing, JT was a redshirt freshman. Did you see Joe Hamilton play as a redshirt freshman? Besides that, CPJ was giving Vad, who had a butt-load of potential, every opportunity to get right. He just never did.
 

GT Man

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Here's a question: Would JT's comman
This means nothing, JT was a redshirt freshman. Did you see Joe Hamilton play as a redshirt freshman? Besides that, CPJ was giving Vad, who had a butt-load of potential, every opportunity to get right. He just never did.
Considering Vad's inability to grasp the offense, I wonder if he didn't see JT beating him out this year for starting QB anyways.
 

Boomergump

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I will agree that if Vad plays the first half and Tevin plays the second half against uga we win that game. But I can't see Tevin winning it on his own for four quarters.

The other games we will have to agree to disagree. Tevin had orwin and Robbie plus a healthier oline in 2012 and couldn't beat those teams. We had a better defense this year but we still gave up 45 against Miami. I just don't think his superior skills at running the option would have made a difference in that game.
Different teams, different years. Watch the 2013 games again and see if you have the same opinion. Watch the flow of the games and consider TW's strengths etc. True enough TW didn't beat the teams in the years you say. That is not what we are talking about. In any case, it is all speculation and we will never know.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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Most of the games we lost in 12...and probably 11...were more due to putrid defense than lack of play from the QB. But I agree TW did not possess the complete skill set we desire.
 

daBuzz

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Here's the scary part to me. If what you guys say is actually true...that Vad Lee didn't have a firm grasp over the offense...and yet Justin was unable to take even a 10th of the snaps away from him, then that says one of three things to me:
a) Justin isn't nearly ready to step in and be the QB this year that everyone is thinking he'll be
b) Our coach is a complete idiot who doesn't know how to prepare for the possibility that his backup QB may need to produce for him at some point by getting him relevant snaps
c) Both A & B
 

dressedcheeseside

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Here's the scary part to me. If what you guys say is actually true...that Vad Lee didn't have a firm grasp over the offense...and yet Justin was unable to take even a 10th of the snaps away from him, then that says one of three things to me:
a) Justin isn't nearly ready to step in and be the QB this year that everyone is thinking he'll be
b) Our coach is a complete idiot who doesn't know how to prepare for the possibility that his backup QB may need to produce for him at some point by getting him relevant snaps
c) Both A & B
d) JT was a redshirt freshman with even less experience than Vad and ball security issues. Again, did you ever watch Joe Hamilton as a redshirt freshman?
 

awbuzz

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Here's a question: Would JT's comman

Considering Vad's inability to grasp the offense, I wonder if he didn't see JT beating him out this year for starting QB anyways.

I think there is a lot of truth in the statement. Didn't Will Jackson or David Sims pretty much make a comment along those lines?
 

InsideLB

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Why we went 7-6:

1. As already discussed recruiting needs to improve and we were unlucky with injuries in 2010 class.

2. OL injuries abnormally high.

3. Difficult SOS and got majorly shafted by schedule makers

4. Groh hangover early in the season but then tackling improved substantially.

5. Flaky QB didn't want to get hit and never bought into the system. Was flaky during recruitment, then about transferring as frosh, then last year before finally transferring. IMO If he commits to what we do he's a fine QB for us.

6. No 2nd pass rush threat to complement Jeremiah. 4* Anthony Williams would have been nice if he'd panned out.

7. In conjunction with pass rush issues injuries to Johnson, Golden, and attrition with Holton forced us to start green Safeties. Lack of experience there really hurt our coverage at times..
 
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dressedcheeseside

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Why we went 7-6:

1. As already discussed recruiting needs to improve and we were unlucky with injuries in 2010 class.

2. OL injuries abnormally high.

3. Difficult SOS and got majorly shafted by schedule makers

4. Groh hangover early in the season but then tackling improved substantially.

5. Flaky QB didn't want to get hit and never bought into the system. Was flaky during recruitment, then about transferring as frosh, then last year before finally transferring. IMO If he commits to what we do he's a fine QB for us.

6. No 2nd pass rush threat to complement Jeremiah. 4* Anthony Williams would have been nice if he'd panned out.

7. In conjunction with pass rush issues injuries to Johnson, Golden, and attrition with Holton forced us to start green Safeties. Lack of experience there really hurt our coverage at times..
You're just making excuses, PeeJay needs to go. ;)
 

InsideLB

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I know you're kidding but want to point out that some of the things I cited are shortcomings by the staff.

Instead of simply discussing things factually/analytically though every thread tends to disintegrate into attack/support the coaches. And both supporters and attackers can be amazingly annoying by dumbing things down to support their warped, oversimplified viewpoints.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I know you're kidding but want to point out that some of the things I cited are shortcomings by the staff.

Instead of simply discussing things factually/analytically though every thread tends to disintegrate into attack/support the coaches. And both supporters and attackers can be amazingly annoying by dumbing things down to support their warped, oversimplified viewpoints.
I agree with all of that.
 

UgaBlows

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I think Tevin would have beaten VT this past year, but then by the same token i'm not sure he could have made some of the passes that Vad did to beat other teams like UNC and Pitt
 

alaguy

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I disagree with you and agree with DCS. Tevin would have been an improvement over Vad Lee for the 2013 season. But DCS will not agree with me going foreward because I feel that Vad Lee digressed from 2012 thru 2013, and then out the door. He was definitely "coached down". I believe in his own mind, Vad saw himself and his talents degrading the longer he was in our program. But just the fact that this debate is taking place is scary. That it is open for discussion that Tevin was actually a better fit than the "Savior Vad Lee" is sobering. And here is the kicker: Justin Thomas could not beat out Vad Lee. Are we going to be discussing the games we wished we had Vad back for at the end of the 2014 season?

We may well be "sober" at the end of '14 ,with the realization that JT just had an erratic "vad season".JT really has limited exp (as Cheese points out) and it will take a BUNCH of exp to overcome a questionable OL ,his size limitations, plus nuances of the OFF ,at say -VT-gamespeed.
 

GT Man

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We may well be "sober" at the end of '14 ,with the realization that JT just had an erratic "vad season".JT really has limited exp (as Cheese points out) and it will take a BUNCH of exp to overcome a questionable OL ,his size limitations, plus nuances of the OFF ,at say -VT-gamespeed.
or maybe we won't. It's all speculation. I guess the difference is that some folks would like JT to work out.
 

Legal Jacket

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Come on cheese! You tell me what games Tevin wins in 2013 if he is the starting QB.
VT - nope. Tevin lost to them for two years. He lost last season when our D held them to 17 points.
Miami - nope. We got beat soundly even with Miami's 5 turnovers.
BYU - nope. Russel Wilson couldn't have won that game for us.
UGA - nope. The only reason we had the big lead was because we surprised them in the passing game. Tevin couldn't have made those throws.
Clemson - nope. They were out of our league.
Ole Miss - maybe. I doubt it though. Once Nkemdiche (sp?) entered the game he shut our offense down.

With Tevin, we were a 7 win team for 2.5 seasons. I just can't understand the logic that says we would have been better with him.

I know it is popular know to lay all the blame at the feet of Vad now that he is gone, but the truth is our vaunted offensive line let defenders pour through this season like a screen door on a submarine. Vad was indecisive because he generally was trying to read 2 or 3 D lineman moments after the snap - instead of just reading the one. Granted - we had injuries and they were hurt. But they would have been hurt if Tevin played as well. We would have still finished 7-6, and we would still be saying "wait till next year"!

Nobody is laying blame at Vad's feet, but he certainly made some mistakes that TW wouldn't have made. I think we would have won a few of the games that we lost with TW instead of VL. Here's why.

Biggest general difference - TW was very good at putting a complete drive together on the ground and milking the crap out of the clock.

Against VT, TW played ok. We scored an average of 21.5 points. That alone would have been enough to win this year. Not to mention that Vad set us up for failure by gifting VT a TD (fumbling on our own 20) and at the same time deflating what had the potential to be our best home crowd since Bobby Dodd. The rest of the game Vad was terrible too, completed less than 30% of his passes (in 24 attempts) and averaged less than 2 yards a run. TW never threw that many times in his career, because he could actually run our base offense well enough to where he didn't have to (especially in a close game).

Miami - Would have been a completely different game if Vad doesn't fumble and deflate all our momentum. Vad completed less than 40% of his passes and ran for 2.2 yards per carry. Although we scored a good bit, with a better effort from the QB maybe we can milk more clock and put the pressure on them the second half.

BYU - Another game where Vad completed less than 40% of his passes and ran for less than 2 ypc. It's not like we weren't in the game - BYU didn't score from 4:53 left in the 2nd until 12:46 left in the fourth. If we had a little bit better offensive effort to start, especially scoring TDs instead of kicking field goals, we are likely down only a TD at halftime. Vad couldn't get anything going in the third and he threw a pick 6 in the fourth that put the game out of reach. The game was very winnable by a guy like TW, who scored tons of TDs and would have more effectively kept our offense moving.

Uga - agreed, although I note that TW would have won us the game the last drive in regulation (though I'm not sure he would have gotten us there). He would have been great to put in in the second half.

Clemson - agreed, although the same could be said two years ago and we made it a close game.

Ole Miss - Definitely would have been a game under TW.
 
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