Why we had a 7-6 record

GTRX7

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Here's the scary part to me. If what you guys say is actually true...that Vad Lee didn't have a firm grasp over the offense...and yet Justin was unable to take even a 10th of the snaps away from him, then that says one of three things to me:
a) Justin isn't nearly ready to step in and be the QB this year that everyone is thinking he'll be
b) Our coach is a complete idiot who doesn't know how to prepare for the possibility that his backup QB may need to produce for him at some point by getting him relevant snaps
c) Both A & B

Not sure I agree with your cause and effect conclusions here.
a) I do agree that Justin not winning more of the job last year meant that he wasn't ready last year to step in and provide an immediate improvement over Vad. Now, does that mean he won't improve over the off-season and be ready to step in this year? Not sure. I hope so, but I think the question is still unanswered.
b) I think the more likely explanation is that coach concluded that, even though Vad was not getting it right, he saw the potential there and knew the only way Vad was going to develop was to give him the vast majority of the snaps. Couple that with a), and I think that was the right coaching move for last year. However, had Vad stayed, I imagine the competition for starting QB would be wide open today, with JTs improvement this off-season being the determinative factor in next year's starter.

I agree that last year JT probably was not better than last year Vad, but that doesn't mean that next year JT necessarily won't be better than last year Vad. I for one hope so. If he is not, I think we all know how things are likely to play out.
 

daBuzz

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d) JT was a redshirt freshman with even less experience than Vad and ball security issues. Again, did you ever watch Joe Hamilton as a redshirt freshman?
I sure did. And you know how Joe Hamilton got better? It wasn't because he got to be a year older; it was because he struggled through his freshman year....getting repetitions. Unfortunately, JT never got those reps. Next year, he will still be a "redshirt freshman" as far as experience go. He will have the advantage of one more spring getting reps, but that's not anywhere near the same as getting live game experience when the game is on the line.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
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Not sure I agree with your cause and effect conclusions here.
a) I do agree that Justin not winning more of the job last year meant that he wasn't ready last year to step in and provide an immediate improvement over Vad. Now, does that mean he won't improve over the off-season and be ready to step in this year? Not sure. I hope so, but I think the question is still unanswered.
b) I think the more likely explanation is that coach concluded that, even though Vad was not getting it right, he saw the potential there and knew the only way Vad was going to develop was to give him the vast majority of the snaps. Couple that with a), and I think that was the right coaching move for last year. However, had Vad stayed, I imagine the competition for starting QB would be wide open today, with JTs improvement this off-season being the determinative factor in next year's starter.

I agree that last year JT probably was not better than last year Vad, but that doesn't mean that next year JT necessarily won't be better than last year Vad. I for one hope so. If he is not, I think we all know how things are likely to play out.

Look, I HOPE that JT has a lights-out, break out year. However, it is my opinion that putting all of your eggs in one basket like CPJ did is incredibly risky.

I don't think he should have split the repetitions or anything; that's not what I'm saying. But having Vad still in the game when we're up by 4 or 5 touchdowns and not getting JT in until the first team has already sat down for the day is short-sighted at best! I don't think anyone foresaw our starting QB leaving after one season as the starter, but what would have happened if Vad had blown out a knee? Or been hit in the arm while throwing and torn a rotator cuff? We'd still be in the same boat. My point is that Johnson's way of developing his QB's for the future is pretty piss poor IMO.
 

GTRX7

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Look, I HOPE that JT has a lights-out, break out year. However, it is my opinion that putting all of your eggs in one basket like CPJ did is incredibly risky.

I don't think he should have split the repetitions or anything; that's not what I'm saying. But having Vad still in the game when we're up by 4 or 5 touchdowns and not getting JT in until the first team has already sat down for the day is short-sighted at best! I don't think anyone foresaw our starting QB leaving after one season as the starter, but what would have happened if Vad had blown out a knee? Or been hit in the arm while throwing and torn a rotator cuff? We'd still be in the same boat. My point is that Johnson's way of developing his QB's for the future is pretty piss poor IMO.

But it is darned if you do, darned if you don't. Many of our blowout wins came early in the season, at a time when we desperately had things we still needed to work out. Even with a big lead, there were things that coach felt Vad needed to work on and therefore left him in to work on them. This is exactly the type of experience you would now be praising if he was back again. However, with Vad now gone, in hindsight, you argue Thomas should have gotten more snaps. Thomas played in 10 games and looks to have gotten about 14% of the snaps Vad got (at least based on total number of rushes and pass attempts). Are there many bowl teams in the country that gave the backup that percentage of the snaps in games without injury to the starter? I would have to think the answer is no.

I too wish Thomas had gotten more snaps. However, if coached believed Vad had the better chance to be the guy in the short term (1-2 years), the first priority must be to give the lion's share of the snaps to him to develop him first. As the saying goes, if you have two QBs, you have none. No sense in giving the backup meaningful time when that time is still desperately needed by the starter. JT got his snaps in practice, I can assure you that.
 

alaguy

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But it is darned if you do, darned if you don't. Many of our blowout wins came early in the season, at a time when we desperately had things we still needed to work out. Even with a big lead, there were things that coach felt Vad needed to work on and therefore left him in to work on them. This is exactly the type of experience you would now be praising if he was back again. However, with Vad now gone, in hindsight, you argue Thomas should have gotten more snaps. Thomas played in 10 games and looks to have gotten about 14% of the snaps Vad got (at least based on total number of rushes and pass attempts). Are there many bowl teams in the country that gave the backup that percentage of the snaps in games without injury to the starter? I would have to think the answer is no.

I too wish Thomas had gotten more snaps. However, if coached believed Vad had the better chance to be the guy in the short term (1-2 years), the first priority must be to give the lion's share of the snaps to him to develop him first. As the saying goes, if you have two QBs, you have none. No sense in giving the backup meaningful time when that time is still desperately needed by the starter. JT got his snaps in practice, I can assure you that.

Just 2 cents on having 2 QBs as a "problem"--that sure didn't turn out to be the case this yr at dook and unc.They both had 2nd unit guys who stepped in and did great jobs.In fact so good they could both beat us this coming yr.
 

GTRX7

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Just 2 cents on having 2 QBs as a "problem"--that sure didn't turn out to be the case this yr at dook and unc.They both had 2nd unit guys who stepped in and did great jobs.In fact so good they could both beat us this coming yr.

And we could likely beat both of them this coming year with Thomas.

That misses the point though. My point is that, had Vad come back and started next year (as CPJ probably anticipated at the beginning of this year), I think getting Vad those extra snaps would have increased our odds of beating those teams with Vad starting this year. And, given that that was the most likely scenario at the time CPJ decided to play Vad in the blowouts you complain of, I contend that was the right decision by CPJ at that time.
 
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