Where does College BB go from here

[lv20gt]

If a player wants to attend college, it should be encouraged even if he leaves after one or two years to make large sums of money. The NCAA should definitely be against tricking or making high school students believe that they are forced to play in college if they want to make the NBA.

Nobody is tricking or forcing students to go to college. They can go play in europe or to the d league. They chose not to.

If you want to complain, it's the NBA that's not letting them go and make the big bucks.

 

[RonJohn]

Nobody is tricking or forcing students to go to college. They can go play in europe or to the d league. They chose not to.

If you want to complain, it's the NBA that's not letting them go and make the big bucks.

I agree that it is the NBA that prevents then from making big bucks.

I don't agree that the AAU coaches and NCAA coaches do nothing to trick the kids into believing that have no choice except to play NCAA basketball. Many of both levels are great, but many at both levels are sleazy and start influencing those kids when they are preteens. I believe they have many convinced before they enter high school that they "must" play NCAA basketball or they will not amount to anything. Tough for a high school kids who learned that from people he looks up to at thirteen to learn the truth on his own.

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[lv20gt]

I don't agree that the AAU coaches and NCAA coaches do nothing to trick the kids into believing that have no choice except to play NCAA basketball. Many of both levels are great, but many at both levels are sleazy and start influencing those kids when they are preteens. I believe they have many convinced before they enter high school that they "must" play NCAA basketball or they will not amount to anything. Tough for a high school kids who learned that from people he looks up to at thirteen to learn the truth on his own.

There is no tricking. The alternatives aren't good choices for most. The D league doesn't pay that well and they don't get the same exposure. Euro ball means traveling thousands of miles away from family and friends. That's not on the NCAA. The NCAA shouldn't start forking over money just because the players don't wont those inconveniences or the other options choose not to. The NCAA offers something none of the alternatives do, and that is an education. If Simmons is too stupid to understand why education might help him, then I really can't feel sorry for him. Oh and poor him for delaying that 6 mil a year contract by a year.

The fact is while in college they aren't paying for almost anything. Not tuition. Not room and board. Not food. They aren't going in debt like so many other college attendees, and on top of that many are getting into schools they normally wouldn't be able to. If they are choosing not to value the educational opportunity that they have then I don't feel sorry for them and I certainly don't buy the indentured servitude nonsense. They have sweet deals

 

[RonJohn]

There is no tricking. The alternatives aren't good choices for most. The D league doesn't pay that well and they don't get the same exposure. Euro ball means traveling thousands of miles away from family and friends. That's not on the NCAA. The NCAA shouldn't start forking over money just because the players don't wont those inconveniences or the other options choose not to. The NCAA offers something none of the alternatives do, and that is an education. If Simmons is too stupid to understand why education might help him, then I really can't feel sorry for him. Oh and poor him for delaying that 6 mil a year contract by a year.

The fact is while in college they aren't paying for almost anything. Not tuition. Not room and board. Not food. They aren't going in debt like so many other college attendees, and on top of that many are getting into schools they normally wouldn't be able to. If they are choosing not to value the educational opportunity that they have then I don't feel sorry for them and I certainly don't buy the indentured servitude nonsense. They have sweet deals

If someone openly does not value education, then the scholarship is worthless. If an NCAA basketball player member attends class, then the coach definitely knows that he does not value education and has no business being in college. Why was he only suspended for the beginning of one game? Most likely because the coach values winning above all else. The coach probably knew before he was on campus that he had absolutely no interest in college other than basketball, but he used him for playing ability anyway. The coach absolutely knew that his scholarship had absolutely no value to him.

Throughout history slaves had free room and board. Are you off the opinion that they should have been grateful for it?

AAU coaches who get access to kids before they are even old enough to understand how the world works. Many of those AAU coaches believe that their success friends on getting lots of kids in the NCAA. The kids learn that being successful means getting into the NCAA on a basketball team. In my opinion many NCAA coaches take advantage of both the NBA rules and connections with the sleazy AAU coaches. How many NCAA coaches do you think discuss non college options with kids that would be lottery picks if the NBA took kids out of high school? Who is informing the kids off their options? After years of being told add young kids that they must play college ball, how do you expect them to suddenly realize that there are other options?

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[RamblinRed]

The more I think about this the more i think a big part of the solution is for the NBA to get rid of the one and done, and also beef up their G league with more real development for players.
If they do probably at least 1/2 of the top 25 will simply declare for the draft. It will be the cream, but it will also be the majority of the guys who are currently one and done.

if the NCAA wants to make a 2 and done rule fine, but i'd be fine if there is no one and done rule with allowing them to leave whenever. Not many who go to college are going to be ready to go to the pros after 1 yr or even 2, if there is no one and done.

FWIW, here is a good article on Nova's model and it has some interesting quotes about the G league in it.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/4/3/17192106/donte-divincenzo-jay-wright-villanova

 

[YlJacket]

I watched about 2 min of the Jordan Brand classic the other day - all I could take. But in that 2 minutes they went through almost exactly the same comments as are in RR's article as they related to Baxley. He is a slender kid who is going to get beat up by 23/24 year old guys who are more physically developed and will do whatever they have to in order to get to/back to the NBA. They commented that the G League is officiated as a very physical brand of basketball (not helpful for Baxley) and that he will not be given the priority or preferred role he would otherwise get at Syracuse. And that is before you get to the fact that the G League generally doesn't have training and nutrition facilities like the NCAA - if at all.

I was left with the feeling that he has a 50/50 shot of succeeding or getting swallowed up in the G League. Not the way you want to go if you are trying to guarantee/establish a top draft position. He is the trailblazer for this year - it will be interesting to see how this experiment in top talent going to the G League works both on a basketball level and an economic level.

The more I think about it the more I do hope they get rid of the one and done. Initially I was focused on the top talent being drained from the NCAA game but the more this drags on the more I worry that the NCAA will feel the need to do stupid stuff for 10 or so kids per year that has the consequence of taking opportunities away for a lot of other athletes who really do want the education.

 

[ESPNjacket]

Coming 8 AM tomorrow:

 

[orientalnc]

Poor Cal, Coach K is beating him at the one & done game so he wants to change the rules.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...to-help-bring-an-end-to-the-one-and-done-era/

 

[ESPNjacket]

The National Association of Basketball Coaches LOVE the committee recommendations coming out tomorrow before knowing what they are:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...qfiq7rc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[orientalnc]

I am predicting the recommendations will not take control of the game away from the people who have it now.

 

[RonJohn]

The National Association of Basketball Coaches LOVE the committee recommendations coming out tomorrow before knowing what they are:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...qfiq7rc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I only saw the portions of the letter that were included in the SN article, but it doesn't really sound like "unequivocal" support. It appears that the memo was more to "support" the recommendations, but to stress that coaches and the coaches' association are extremely important to and should be involved in the process of making rules to implement the recommendations. It seems to me as though they want the coaches to not be against the recommendations so that the coaches can push for a position of power for the rules making process. If they get that position of power, then they can shape the recommendations in a manner that the coaches' association likes.

 

[GTRX7]

Poor Cal, Coach K is beating him at the one & done game so he wants to change the rules.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...to-help-bring-an-end-to-the-one-and-done-era/

Uh, Cal just got two top ten recruits in the last two weeks and has been preaching this for years. He has always said he doesn’t like one and done. He just plays by the rules as they are.

 

[CuseJacket]

A lot in here... tried to quote the TLDR version

ESPN: Commission on College Basketball calls for reforms to sport

The Commission on College Basketball sharply directed the NCAA to take control of the sport, calling for sweeping reforms to minimize one-and-done, permit players to return to school after going undrafted by the NBA and ban cheating coaches for life.

It's not yet clear how the governing body would pay for some of the proposals, and some of the panel's key recommendations would require cooperation from the NBA, its players union and USA Basketball.

The group recommended the NCAA have more involvement with players before they get to college and less involvement with enforcement. It also acknowledged the NCAA will need help to make some changes and defended its amateurism model, saying paying players a salary isn't the answer.

NCAA president Mark Emmert has said he wants reforms in place by August. The commission does, too. And it wants to review the NCAA's plans for implementation before it goes before the boards for approval.

When it came to the topic of one-and-done players, the commission emphasized the need for elite players to have more options when choosing between college and professional basketball, and to separate the two tracks.

The commission called for the NBA and its players association to change rules requiring players to be at least 19 years old and a year removed from graduating high school to be draft eligible.

The commission decided against attempting to mirror rules for baseball but said it could reconsider.

The commission did take a piece of the baseball model and recommended basketball players be allowed to test the professional market in high school or after any college season, while still maintaining college eligibility. If undrafted, a college player would remain eligible as long as he requests an evaluation from the NBA and returns to the same school. Players could still leave college for professional careers after one year, but the rules would not compel them to do so.

When it came to enforcement, the commission recommended harsher penalties for rule-breakers and that the NCAA outsource the investigation and adjudication of the most serious infractions cases. Level I violations would be punishable with up to a five-year postseason ban and the forfeiture of all postseason revenue for the time of the ban. That could be worth tens of millions to major conference schools. By comparison, recent Level I infractions cases involving Louisville and Syracuse basketball resulted in postseason bans of one year.

As for agents, the commission proposed the NCAA create a program for certifying agents, and make them accessible to players from high school through their college careers.

 

[RonJohn]

A lot in here... tried to quote the TLDR version

The commission decided against attempting to mirror rules for baseball but said it could reconsider.

I didn't read the baseball comments in the report the same. It says that the baseball rule would create a second tier of student-athletes who are forced to stay in college, potentially against their will. Instead of simply saying they would consider the baseball rule in the future, it says that if the NBA does not change the one-and-done rule that:

....the Commission will reconvene and consider the other tools at its disposal. These could range from the baseball rule, to freshman ineligibility, to “locking up” scholarships for three or four years if the recipient leaves the program for the NBA after a single year. That would be a disincentive to recruit an athlete for a one-year run at the title.

The key things that I got from it are:

• End one and done(Either the NBA do it, or the NCAA put in harsh rules that make it painful for college teams to take on players who don't intend to stay in college)
• Allow pre-college and college student-athletes to test the waters with professional sports(NBA) without penalty as long as they don't sign a contract.
• Allow pre-college and college student-athletes to get advice from agents to supplement their decision making process about pro-sports
• Ensure that scholarship student athletes have access to money from Degree Completion Programs to finish their degree after exhausting eligibility
• Establish independent(From the NCAA) investigation authorities to investigate NCAA infractions.(It says that "..when the stakes are high, colleges are not complying with the NCAA’s shared governance and cooperative principles and NCAA rules often are not enforced.")
• Enact very harsh penalties for violations(Five season post-season bans, loss of ALL revenue sharing from post-season revenues during entire penalty duration)
• Not allow any NCAA coaches to interact coaches or attend events put on by "non-scholastic" basketball organizations unless those organizations are completely open-book with regard to their finances.(Basically keep NCAA coaches away from AAU organizations unless they clean up)
• Try to get the apparel companies to be transparent in their financial dealings with "non-scholastic" basketball organizations. -- Call on the Board of Directors of those companies to ensure that their employees are acting with financial transparency and accountability.
• Work with USA Basketball, the NBA, and the NBPA, WNBA, WNBPA to develop an NCAA Youth Basketball Program to identify, train, and develop young players.(Basically take over AAU basketball)
• Open rules up more for NCAA coaches to get more access to high school players without having to go through AAU and similar coaches.

The full report is available here:
https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2018CCBReportFinal_web.pdf

 

[kg01]

Whole thing smells like a waste of time/money. The major "changes" require independent entities to make changes .... that happen to benefit the NCAA. SMDH

 

[lv20gt]

• End one and done(Either the NBA do it, or the NCAA put in harsh rules that make it painful for college teams to take on players who don't intend to stay in college)

I'd hate the case of the NCAA punishing schools like that. There is no distinction to be made between the obvious one and dones who have no intention of staying in school and the guys who may have thought to stay several years and end up being one and done because they have such a great freshman year. Sure you punish Duke and Kentucky, until they decide to go after the best prospects that aren't obvious one and done and start hiding their freshmen on the bench for a year or two. Then you're left with teams like BC getting punished for Olivier Hanlan leaving early.

• Ensure that scholarship student athletes have access to money from Degree Completion Programs to finish their degree after exhausting eligibility

Why should they get that when regular students don't? If they exhaust their eligibility they are no longer a student athlete. Just a student.


The rest sounds mostly good though.

 

[RonJohn]

Whole thing smells like a waste of time/money. The major "changes" require independent entities to make changes .... that happen to benefit the NCAA. SMDH

I don't agree with that. They only items that require others to make changes are: NBA end one-and-done, Apparel companies be more transparent, NBA work the NCAA to develop a youth league. They can't force the apparel companies to do anything, so what do you suggest the NCAA do to prevent them from providing money to AAU or to players? If the NCAA started a youth league without the NBA I'm not sure that it would be able to compete with AAU at all, so they would need the NBA for clout.

The other things are major changes that the NCAA does have control over: Not allowing NCAA coaches to attend AAU events or interact with AAU coaches. Developing separate and independent investigative authorities that don't have ties to any particular school or conference or even the NCAA. Giving NCAA coaches more access to high school players(to reduce dependence on AAU coaches). Strengthening penalties for violations. Allowing high school and college players to get advice from agents without losing eligibility.

Even with the one-and-done rule, they have NCAA alternatives if the NBA does not change such as locking up scholarships when players leave, or making freshmen ineligible. The NCAA cannot legally stop one-and-done players period. They can however prevent a one-and-done from playing the one year. Or they could make the college team suffer greatly if someone does leave after one year.

 

[kg01]

I don't agree with that. They only items that require others to make changes are: NBA end one-and-done, Apparel companies be more transparent, NBA work the NCAA to develop a youth league. They can't force the apparel companies to do anything, so what do you suggest the NCAA do to prevent them from providing money to AAU or to players? If the NCAA started a youth league without the NBA I'm not sure that it would be able to compete with AAU at all, so they would need the NBA for clout.

The other things are major changes that the NCAA does have control over: Not allowing NCAA coaches to attend AAU events or interact with AAU coaches. Developing separate and independent investigative authorities that don't have ties to any particular school or conference or even the NCAA. Giving NCAA coaches more access to high school players(to reduce dependence on AAU coaches). Strengthening penalties for violations. Allowing high school and college players to get advice from agents without losing eligibility.

Even with the one-and-done rule, they have NCAA alternatives if the NBA does not change such as locking up scholarships when players leave, or making freshmen ineligible. The NCAA cannot legally stop one-and-done players period. They can however prevent a one-and-done from playing the one year. Or they could make the college team suffer greatly if someone does leave after one year.

I mean, all that sounds great. If these outside entities make no changes, the actions the NCAA would take that would effectively mimic an anti-1-and-done rule wouldn't hold up to scrutiny.

What do I suggest they do? Disband the NCAA. It's not a model that works anymore.

My complaint is that this initiative was basically a farce they use to pat themselves on the back.

 

[burlgt]

Even with the one-and-done rule, they have NCAA alternatives if the NBA does not change such as locking up scholarships when players leave, or making freshmen ineligible. The NCAA cannot legally stop one-and-done players period. They can however prevent a one-and-done from playing the one year. Or they could make the college team suffer greatly if someone does leave after one year.

I think this is where we see either the return of the 5/8 rule or a rule that all enrollees (except grad transfers) count against the 13 cap for 2 years. This makes it harder for Duke/UK, etc to "reload" with the top players every year. If Duke has to go a year down ships because Carter and Bagley "count" next season, that slows the train down.

 

[RonJohn]

I mean, all that sounds great. If these outside entities make no changes, the actions the NCAA would take that would effectively mimic an anti-1-and-done rule wouldn't hold up to scrutiny.

Not trying to argue, I just want to understand. How would freshmen not being eligible not hold up to scrutiny? How would locking a scholarship to a player for three or four years not hold up to scrutiny? The first would make the NCAA very unattractive to potential first round picks who are in high school.(Why go to college if you won't be able to play for the only year you are there?) The second would make Coach K's or Coach Cal's teams of 3-5 one-and-dones impractical. If you lost five scholarships for three years would you chance taking five super players for one shot at a title?