Where do we go from here?

JacketFan137

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I know full well I'm in the minority. And I was also in the minority when I tried to ring the warning bells before the game. As I've said, we should have won the game. But no, it was never a gimme and just speculating but maybe the reason we lost was that it was erroneously thought to be a gimme all along. And just because we were three TD faves means nothing. Obviously, the line was way off.

By the way, my stats above were way off. Bowling Green has now beaten TEN Power 5 teams since 2000:

2001: Missouri, Northwestern
2002: Missouri, Kansas
2003: Purdue, Northwestern
2007: Minnesota
2008: Pittsburgh
2021: Minnesota
2023: Georgia Tech

Maybe calling them a "gimme" is the problem that needs to be corrected.
the issue is bowling green has had some good teams over the years and on any given sunday you will here will watch a handful of nfl players that came from there, but this is not one of the good bowling green teams. they had some injuries but this team just lost to another mac team by 30 points and has only one win against eastern illinois.
 

GetYourBuzzOn

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
77
I think as a loss this one is certainly not "one of the worst in 30 years" or anywhere near it. Bowling Green went to Michigan and lost by 25 points. Do we imagine that if Tech went to Michigan the Jackets would likely hold the margin under 25? They lost to Liberty by 10. Liberty's 4-0 and BG gave them their closest game. Bowling Green was coming off a bad game, but that only increased the likelihood they would play better on Saturday. Seems the fans as well as the team underestimated the Falcons. Tech should have beaten them, but this was no gimme game.
In probabilistic terms, what would your definition of a gimme game be? 90%? 95%?

I believe we closed as 21 point favorites, which means the market implied that there was a 93.7% chance that we win that game. That seems pretty "gimme" to me.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
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2,953
I know full well I'm in the minority. And I was also in the minority when I tried to ring the warning bells before the game. As I've said, we should have won the game. But no, it was never a gimme and just speculating but maybe the reason we lost was that it was erroneously thought to be a gimme all along. And just because we were three TD faves means nothing. Obviously, the line was way off.

By the way, my stats above were way off. Bowling Green has now beaten TEN Power 5 teams since 2000:

2001: Missouri, Northwestern
2002: Missouri, Kansas
2003: Purdue, Northwestern
2007: Minnesota
2008: Pittsburgh
2021: Minnesota
2023: Georgia Tech

Maybe calling them a "gimme" is the problem that needs to be corrected.
Dude. Bowling Green is a bad MAC team this year. They got beat 38-7 against Ohio. Not Ohio State. Just plain old Ohio. The Bobcats.

This was a gimme game in every sense of the word. It’s not like we lost to somebody like Cincinnati or UCF or Boise State. It’s ****ing Bowling Green. Most of the teams in the MAC. would be furious if they gave up 38 unanswered points to ****ing Bowling Green. As a Power 5 school trying to make a bowl game, losing this game is unacceptable under all circumstances. There is no way you can rationalize this one to somehow be “okay” or “not that bad.” This is ****ing embarrassing. We’re 0-2 against the MAC the last 2 years. That’s a joke, full stop.
 

CEB

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2,591
the issue is bowling green has had some good teams over the years and on any given sunday you will here will watch a handful of nfl players that came from there, but this is not one of the good bowling green teams. they had some injuries but this team just lost to another mac team by 30 points and has only one win against eastern illinois.
I think you’re selling this BG team short. Its actually quite simple to see why they have been losing. This BG team probably is a one loss team but for turnovers. They gave away 5 to Liberty and lost by 10. They gave away 4 to Ohio in a fashion that looked like they never even came out of the locker room.
Possessions v Ohio, first half;
Interception
Punt
Fumble Ret for TD
Punt
Punt
Fumble Ret for TD (yes, twice)
TO on Downs

Their coach said they just need to take care of the ball and not beat themselves. Sounded like run of the mill, canned coachspeak at the time, but lo and behold…

Our D never challenged them enough to force a mistake. If they had made just one, it’s possible they would’ve rolled over. Instead, we let them move the ball, hang around and build confidence, and they seized the opportunity.

If they’ve licked the turnover bug, they’ll win a bunch of games
 

GetYourBuzzOn

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
77
Dude. Bowling Green is a bad MAC team this year. They got beat 38-7 against Ohio. Not Ohio State. Just plain old Ohio. The Bobcats.

This was a gimme game in every sense of the word. It’s not like we lost to somebody like Cincinnati or UCF or Boise State. It’s ****ing Bowling Green. Most of the teams in the MAC. would be furious if they gave up 38 unanswered points to ****ing Bowling Green. As a Power 5 school trying to make a bowl game, losing this game is unacceptable under all circumstances. There is no way you can rationalize this one to somehow be “okay” or “not that bad.” This is ****ing embarrassing. We’re 0-2 against the MAC the last 2 years. That’s a joke, full stop.
Hey now, I will not sit back and allow the mighty Ohio Bobcats to be slandered! Tim Albin has done a great job with that program. They went 10-4 last year with a bowl win over Arizona, and are 4-1 so far this year with a nasty defense. They should be 5-0, except their starting QB got knocked out in their opening game vs. San Diego State.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
I think you’re selling this BG team short. Its actually quite simple to see why they have been losing. This BG team probably is a one loss team but for turnovers. They gave away 5 to Liberty and lost by 10. They gave away 4 to Ohio in a fashion that looked like they never even came out of the locker room.
Possessions v Ohio, first half;
Interception
Punt
Fumble Ret for TD
Punt
Punt
Fumble Ret for TD (yes, twice)
TO on Downs

Their coach said they just need to take care of the ball and not beat themselves. Sounded like run of the mill, canned coachspeak at the time, but lo and behold…

Our D never challenged them enough to force a mistake. If they had made just one, it’s possible they would’ve rolled over. Instead, we let them move the ball, hang around and build confidence, and they seized the opportunity.

If they’ve licked the turnover bug, they’ll win a bunch of games
so it sounds like our defense was unable to exploit a team that is prone to turning the ball over.

they also rank near the bottom of fbs football in many offensive and defensive categories. this is just a rough loss on par with the citadel, northern illinois, syracuse, MTSU losses. not sure how people can sugar coat it while being honest about it all
 

gtfanboy

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
11
I think you’re selling this BG team short. Its actually quite simple to see why they have been losing. This BG team probably is a one loss team but for turnovers. They gave away 5 to Liberty and lost by 10. They gave away 4 to Ohio in a fashion that looked like they never even came out of the locker room.
Possessions v Ohio, first half;
Interception
Punt
Fumble Ret for TD
Punt
Punt
Fumble Ret for TD (yes, twice)
TO on Downs

Their coach said they just need to take care of the ball and not beat themselves. Sounded like run of the mill, canned coachspeak at the time, but lo and behold…

Our D never challenged them enough to force a mistake. If they had made just one, it’s possible they would’ve rolled over. Instead, we let them move the ball, hang around and build confidence, and they seized the opportunity.

If they’ve licked the turnover bug, they’ll win a bunch of games

Jeez. Let's all just accept this was a horrendous loss which shouldn't have occured and blame lies solely at the Keys feet.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
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18,235
Bowling Green isn't a good team. There should be no excuses for this loss. This is on the coaches and players. I pointed out earlier, our talent composite (according to 247) is 36, while Bowling Green's is 111. That is a HUGE talent gap. Usually teams within 2-3 tiers you worry about. Bowling Green is about 7 tiers lower than us.

Credit to them. They pulled a CPJ on us. They slow played us down the field sucking game time away from us. Our guys couldn't make tackles, nor did they maintain lane responsibilities. Reminded me a LOT of last year our defense looked like it had no clue. Thacker and Key should have had that fixed by now.

Another thing. I heard one of our players say they overlooked Bowling Green. I'm not sure what's going on with the team in the locker room, but we are far from being good enough to overlook ANYONE. Key and our older players should have that tattooed in their brains. WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO OVERLOOK ANYONE!

Miami and GT have a 2 tier talent differential. Miami is ranked #12. They should win, but GT has a chance...IF we play a clean game. I don't expect us to. However, I hope we don't see missed tackles all the way down the field all game. Clean that up, and we should have a chance.

Miami game, following the loss to Bowling Green, will be the first real test Key's tenure to see how the team responds to him. If we don't respond in the right way, this season might be a VERY long season.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,591
so it sounds like our defense was unable to exploit a team that is prone to turning the ball over.

they also rank near the bottom of fbs football in many offensive and defensive categories. this is just a rough loss on par with the citadel, northern illinois, syracuse, MTSU losses. not sure how people can sugar coat it while being honest about it all
No embellishment needed either way…
It’s a bad loss, particularly for our D.


You’re first point is exactly right… we let them have all the confidence in the world by never challenging them defensively. They played comfortably on O all day long.

I’m not going to debate where it ranks in terms of historically bad losses….that’s a waste of time and reeks of agenda.

The latest loss is always the worst loss because it matters the most toward achieving our goals. However, this loss will either be an exclamation point or an outlier for this team. Citadel and NIU were exclamation points on awful seasons for bad teams. How we respond will determine if this one is also.
 

gtfanboy

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
11
Bowling Green isn't a good team. There should be no excuses for this loss. This is on the coaches and players. I pointed out earlier, our talent composite (according to 247) is 36, while Bowling Green's is 111. That is a HUGE talent gap. Usually teams within 2-3 tiers you worry about. Bowling Green is about 7 tiers lower than us.

Credit to them. They pulled a CPJ on us. They slow played us down the field sucking game time away from us. Our guys couldn't make tackles, nor did they maintain lane responsibilities. Reminded me a LOT of last year our defense looked like it had no clue. Thacker and Key should have had that fixed by now.

Another thing. I heard one of our players say they overlooked Bowling Green. I'm not sure what's going on with the team in the locker room, but we are far from being good enough to overlook ANYONE. Key and our older players should have that tattooed in their brains. WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO OVERLOOK ANYONE!

Miami and GT have a 2 tier talent differential. Miami is ranked #12. They should win, but GT has a chance...IF we play a clean game. I don't expect us to. However, I hope we don't see missed tackles all the way down the field all game. Clean that up, and we should have a chance.

Miami game, following the loss to Bowling Green, will be the first real test Key's tenure to see how the team responds to him. If we don't respond in the right way, this season might be a VERY long season.

Miami is going to obliterate GT. That's the reality. Not walking into that one with any delusion.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
No embellishment needed either way…
It’s a bad loss, particularly for our D.


You’re first point is exactly right… we let them have all the confidence in the world by never challenging them defensively. They played comfortably on O all day long.

I’m not going to debate where it ranks in terms of historically bad losses….that’s a waste of time and reeks of agenda.

The latest loss is always the worst loss because it matters the most toward achieving our goals. However, this loss will either be an exclamation point or an outlier for this team. Citadel and NIU were exclamation points on awful seasons for bad teams. How we respond will determine if this one is also.
it’s not really an agenda it’s just the reality of the situation. we got thumped at home in one of our few games on the schedule that would be deemed a gimme win. we don’t need to make excuses and pretend that bowling green was a good mac team, when they are far worse than even the northern illinois team we lost to.

we definitely can respond and make it seem like an aberration but the concerning thing is the mistakes that lead to this loss weren’t out of nowhere. many of the things that happened have been the status quo here for some time, so it’s pretty understandable there’s concern. luckily for us we seem to have at least acknowledged there is some issues that are just plain unacceptable and we’ve already made a coaching switch. whether there’s any positive to come from that we shall see, but making the swift change is enough to at least give me some hope we are taking things seriously.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,591
Bowling Green isn't a good team. There should be no excuses for this loss. This is on the coaches and players. I pointed out earlier, our talent composite (according to 247) is 36, while Bowling Green's is 111. That is a HUGE talent gap. Usually teams within 2-3 tiers you worry about. Bowling Green is about 7 tiers lower than us.

Credit to them. They pulled a CPJ on us. They slow played us down the field sucking game time away from us. Our guys couldn't make tackles, nor did they maintain lane responsibilities. Reminded me a LOT of last year our defense looked like it had no clue. Thacker and Key should have had that fixed by now.

Another thing. I heard one of our players say they overlooked Bowling Green. I'm not sure what's going on with the team in the locker room, but we are far from being good enough to overlook ANYONE. Key and our older players should have that tattooed in their brains. WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO OVERLOOK ANYONE!

Miami and GT have a 2 tier talent differential. Miami is ranked #12. They should win, but GT has a chance...IF we play a clean game. I don't expect us to. However, I hope we don't see missed tackles all the way down the field all game. Clean that up, and we should have a chance.

Miami game, following the loss to Bowling Green, will be the first real test Key's tenure to see how the team responds to him. If we don't respond in the right way, this season might be a VERY long season.
No one serious about the success of this team is excusing this loss. We also don’t need to embellish it. It’s bad enough on face value. We became a “get right” game for a MAC offense that was reeling. Our D is historically bad right now. BG is not nearly as good as we made them look, but they’re better than most are making them out to be.

You’re not the first to say it but I find it funny how many are worked up about “overlooking” BG. That is EXACTLY what these games are for! This is supposed to be a week where we get better as a team. It’s a week that should be a glorified bye while we work on the things that will make us better LONG TERM, rather than spending time game planning an opponent. We’re 1-1 in the ACC and should be spending 90% of our time improving as a team and preparing for future ACC opponents. BG did not present anything unique for us to gameplan. Nothing that we won’t see again. The fact that we had NO ANSWER for what they did is far more troubling than whatever lack of game planning (real or perceived) did or did not take place.

Guys threw their helmets on the field thinking that would be enough and we played soft all day long. That level of intensity gets you beat every time, regardless of opponent.
 

CEB

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it’s not really an agenda it’s just the reality of the situation. we got thumped at home in one of our few games on the schedule that would be deemed a gimme win. we don’t need to make excuses and pretend that bowling green was a good mac team, when they are far worse than even the northern illinois team we lost to.

we definitely can respond and make it seem like an aberration but the concerning thing is the mistakes that lead to this loss weren’t out of nowhere. many of the things that happened have been the status quo here for some time, so it’s pretty understandable there’s concern. luckily for us we seem to have at least acknowledged there is some issues that are just plain unacceptable and we’ve already made a coaching switch. whether there’s any positive to come from that we shall see, but making the swift change is enough to at least give me some hope we are taking things seriously.
That’s exactly the embellishment and agenda I mean… No need to make a totally baseless claim that this BG team is “far worse“ than NIU of two years ago. Its total conjecture and may prove entirely untrue. At any rate, its totally irrelevant.

Otherwise, you’re on target.
 

GTNavyNuke

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I don't know where "we" go from here. Where I go from here is to follow other GT sports more and wait for something to justify spending my time on GT football.

There's a lot to look forward to in volleyball and M&W basketball. Baseball may even overcome recent non-performance to talent levels.
 

JacketFan137

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2,536
That’s exactly the embellishment and agenda I mean… No need to make a totally baseless claim that this BG team is “far worse“ than NIU of two years ago. Its total conjecture and may prove entirely untrue. At any rate, its totally irrelevant.

Otherwise, you’re on target.
idk call it what you want, it is equally if not more embellishment and agenda, and i would even go as as far to say embarrassing that we have people on a tech forum arguing that this bowling green team is anything but mediocre to bad when all the statistics and results say otherwise.

no one should be letting key, the players, j batt, angel, thacker, and everyone involved off the hook for that game or else we are slowly veering more and more into apathetic and content with mediocrity territory
 

iceeater1969

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No one serious about the success of this team is excusing this loss. We also don’t need to embellish it. It’s bad enough on face value. We became a “get right” game for a MAC offense that was reeling. Our D is historically bad right now. BG is not nearly as good as we made them look, but they’re better than most are making them out to be.

You’re not the first to say it but I find it funny how many are worked up about “overlooking” BG. That is EXACTLY what these games are for! This is supposed to be a week where we get better as a team. It’s a week that should be a glorified bye while we work on the things that will make us better LONG TERM, rather than spending time game planning an opponent. We’re 1-1 in the ACC and should be spending 90% of our time improving as a team and preparing for future ACC opponents. BG did not present anything unique for us to gameplan. Nothing that we won’t see again. The fact that we had NO ANSWER for what they did is far more troubling than whatever lack of game planning (real or perceived) did or did not take place.

Guys threw their helmets on the field thinking that would be enough and we played soft all day long. That level of intensity gets you beat every time, regardless of opponent.
But TFG is gone.
How could this happen w the new discipline put into team?
Head coach said good practice

Biggest concern is getting out adjusted during the games.

We have periods where we seem to be on autopilot no matter what is happening.

The leader of our team needs to have some rabbits in his hat. We can't wait years to find out the hat is empty.

We must show in game snap now. The future of gt as member of P5 is not a given.

I am confident Key will get the guys trying hard. I just want some (not all) of the CPJ in game coaching. We will seldom have enough superior talent to win by just working harder.
 

CEB

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idk call it what you want, it is equally if not more embellishment and agenda, and i would even go as as far to say embarrassing that we have people on a tech forum arguing that this bowling green team is anything but mediocre to bad when all the statistics and results say otherwise.

no one should be letting key, the players, j batt, angel, thacker, and everyone involved off the hook for that game or else we are slowly veering more and more into apathetic and content with mediocrity territory
It’s a bad loss to a team we should've easily beaten. If someone is making an argument otherwise, I haven’t seen it. What has been said (by me, and maybe others) is that BG cleaned up the garbage that made them look REALLY bad (good for them) and we allowed them to do it (we own that).

Comparing the loss to another time and another staff and another team and another opponent is pointless and agenda driven.
 

roadkill

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I tend to agree. If it is #36, it’s not evenly distributed. That’s in the top 1/3rd of FBS. That’s “clearly going to a bowl game, if not a good one” talent. Also it’s either even and deep (which we aren’t as far as I can tell), or has a 3-5 difference makers on each side of the ball—a Percy Harvin or a Butker, if not someone on offense or defense.

I know Pitt is having a terrible season, but they usually have several players fans of the other team knew the names of or would complain were killing us in games. That’s top 50 talent. Right now, for us, I can name one on offense, possibly two, that the other teams would take a long look at.
The talent ranking is for folks who get excited about recruiting rankings and doesn't take into account imbalances by position. The ranking of 36 is about right when you factor in transfers. We have some talent concentration on offense, for example, our #1 and #2 QBs are both 4-stars, and Blalock and Leary are both high 4-stars. Some of our DBs like Brooks are 4-stars. Our weakness from a talent rating standpoint is our linemen on both sides of the ball. And that is a large part of why the 36th ranking seems too high. Still, we've got some high 3-stars there.

We had a discussion about acquiring vs. developing talent in another thread a while ago.
 

GT33

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Are we becoming the mutts of yesteryear: doing way less with way more? Seems like it. We thought talent fixed everything and we are relearning that a hard work ethic and extreme desire to succeed is worth way, way more then sheer talent alone.
 

yeti92

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The talent ranking is for folks who get excited about recruiting rankings and doesn't take into account imbalances by position. The ranking of 36 is about right when you factor in transfers. We have some talent concentration on offense, for example, our #1 and #2 QBs are both 4-stars, and Blalock and Leary are both high 4-stars. Some of our DBs like Brooks are 4-stars. Our weakness from a talent rating standpoint is our linemen on both sides of the ball. And that is a large part of why the 36th ranking seems too high. Still, we've got some high 3-stars there.

We had a discussion about acquiring vs. developing talent in another thread a while ago.
Per 247 we have 18 former 4 stars and have at least one at every position group with the most at DB. Overwhelmingly though, they have not contributed at 4 star level.
 
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