When does Pastner feel heat
- Thread starter Ramble1885
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I do not question the accuracy of this, but the college sports model is severely damaged. I am not sure how much longer I will be interested if it continues down this path.
leatherneckjacket
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Correct. This basically not only gives the cheaters an above the table method to pay off players, but it is also now a tax deductible business expense. Meanwhile, the kids now have to pay taxes on their NIL deals. The rich just keep getting richer.
lv20gt
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No, I'm suggesting that compared to jobs like doctors, teachers, engineers, etc etc, being a basketball coach is not a relatively important job.
Do you think anyone here, or anywhere, thinks that's not the case?
Pretty sure it's safe to assume folks' comments are made with the understanding of stuff like that.
lv20gt
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You can go back and read the post I responded to.
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Honestly, I just like pointing out that dook is full of sanctimonious dirtbags.
StingU2
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but this type of stuff has been going on as far back as the 1960's.
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I do not doubt that cheating has been happening for maybe longer than that, but it was considered cheating until now.
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I think a lot of my frustration comes from a sense of loss (imagined or not), for the ideal of college sports being a growth and development story.
I like the aspect of feeling connected to the zeitgeist of the Institute. Knowing our guys (and following them from young man to adulthood) is part of the enjoyment. Watching the way players develop and mold the person they’ll be both on and off the field has elements beyond just the win/loss column. I watch college sports for the storylines and shared experience of campus life. I know being an athlete was always different, and I know kids were paid before (I actually think they should get a piece of the action anyway with how the NCAA has grown [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅100)̲̅$̲̅] wide) and I know some of the players always were just “playing” at school. This is all a new level though.
The plug and play transfer model and outright pay for play just makes it seem like watered down pro sports with less competitive balance.
I realize to many, my appreciation for this part of the game comes across as over romanticizing and antiquated. I just can't fight the feeling that as the separation of the “player” experience from the “student” experience becomes more and more explicit it cheapens my connection to the sports and program as a whole.
Which is why I like what CJP talked about. Embracing the blue collar work ethic of grinding, developing a get old/stay old story, and recruiting the kind of player that you don't read about making bad or reckless choices off the court. That said, he has to figure it out, or move on, because we all agree - himself included - that we aren't getting it done.
I like the aspect of feeling connected to the zeitgeist of the Institute. Knowing our guys (and following them from young man to adulthood) is part of the enjoyment. Watching the way players develop and mold the person they’ll be both on and off the field has elements beyond just the win/loss column. I watch college sports for the storylines and shared experience of campus life. I know being an athlete was always different, and I know kids were paid before (I actually think they should get a piece of the action anyway with how the NCAA has grown [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅100)̲̅$̲̅] wide) and I know some of the players always were just “playing” at school. This is all a new level though.
The plug and play transfer model and outright pay for play just makes it seem like watered down pro sports with less competitive balance.
I realize to many, my appreciation for this part of the game comes across as over romanticizing and antiquated. I just can't fight the feeling that as the separation of the “player” experience from the “student” experience becomes more and more explicit it cheapens my connection to the sports and program as a whole.
Which is why I like what CJP talked about. Embracing the blue collar work ethic of grinding, developing a get old/stay old story, and recruiting the kind of player that you don't read about making bad or reckless choices off the court. That said, he has to figure it out, or move on, because we all agree - himself included - that we aren't getting it done.
sgreer
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Wait, are you suggesting asst coaches are inconsequential?
if so, I'd beg to differ.
Man, you're so mean. In his defense, this NIL stuff is hard to follow and seems to be really fluid "rules"-wise.
I understand. In a way I was kind of poking fun at the whole situation. At first I thought the NIL was designed to at least come from real businesses who would pay players to be a spokesperson, etc. instead of donating to the school. The whole thing is corrupt.
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This was in From The Rumble Seat this week, and a rehash of what some have said here:
JacketOff
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The concept of NIL dollars for CBB is way overblown IMO. You could buy 5 of the top 100 players for less than $750k. You could fill out a roster of 10 top 150 players for less than $1M. College basketball players simply aren’t commanding enough money that it should break a program down. According to ON3, only 77 players in the country are commanding more than $100k in NIL dollars, and only 36 are getting more than $200k. These numbers probably aren’t exact figures. I’m sure even now there’s some shady business going on to hide some of the money changing hands, but it’s a good reference point. The top end of players probably skews higher in reality than this chart shows, but we probably aren’t in play for those guys anyway. There’s no excuse we can’t be in play for 5 players in the top 250 though. I imagine once you get down into the 250-500 range anything with 5 figures is probably pretty enticing.
There’s way more to our basketball issues than NIL dollars, and the head coach is among the largest.
There’s way more to our basketball issues than NIL dollars, and the head coach is among the largest.
Jack
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Kid pro crow
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How much do think Armando Bacot is getting paid? Did you see what Nigel Pack got to go to Miami? Josh told me the Clemson front court is bringing in $275K.
While I agree that NIL payments for NCAAB is not nearly what it is for football, I think you might be surprised how important the almighty dollar is in recruiting these days. We lost Nwoko to Miami due to NIL, and word is we lost some transfer recruits to it as well.
Look at what Adidas was paying pre-NIL and I think that’s a good measuring stick. Beyond that, we can’t even offer a top prospect $25k because we working with damn near nothing.
Josh absolutely owns the construction of this roster, and he owns his reliance on the Princeton offense. There’s no getting away from that, but if he can drop a few bags, and the AD can secure enough funds to potentially lure a coach that is an offensive guru, he can have success again.
The question is will this season turn out so badly that it forces JBatt’s hand. Personally, I think it would take damn near going winless the rest of the way for that to happen. It will be interesting to see how JBatt plays his hand.
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JacketOff
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Josh wasn’t even having success pre-NIL and transfer portal. His best year was the byproduct of flukey Covid rules. He wasn’t recruiting well before NIL became a thing. Why does anybody think giving him more money would make him a legitimate coach? It’s time to move on, it has been for at least a couple of years now. That flukey Covid year probably saved his life here. I wish it hadn’t happened. We probably wouldn’t be trying to avoid being the worst team in the conference 2 years in a row.
Like I said, the actual monetary values for the top end players probably skew higher than what the chart shows, but are there really 150 schools with more resources available to put together a basketball team? Is traditional ACC basketball powerhouse Boston College really shelling out those dollars to buy way better players than we are. Or is there something in the fact that Josh Pastner is not a good basketball coach? Are Eastern Washington, Samford, MTSU, Charlotte, Tulane, FAU, Boise State, and the like so much better at raising money for their basketball program than we are? We have 2 wins against top 100 teams in Sagarin, both at home. We’re 0-12 against all other teams in the top 200. That makes us 2-12 overall against top 200 teams. Are we even a top 200 team at that point? We’re closer to being the worst team in the country than we are to being the best team. What does NIL money have to do with that?
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Because programs were paying the same money undeclared and we didn’t do it.
Tech93
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We’ve seen at the end of Hewitt‘s tenure and most of CBG’s tenure that the likelihood that the program comes out of this tailspin is nil. Look at the roster and lack of recruits and that speaks volumes too. And the transfer portal is not going to save things. Question is who and how soon will the next coach be named?