When does Pastner feel heat

[ESPNjacket]

And were there any circumstances that led to that result? Ughhhhh

One is that we didn't have to play as many games by being the fourth seed. I haven't seen you mention that. You probably just forgot.

 

[bke1984]

Some of the comments regarding talent on this thread are incredibly lazy. Talent isn’t a yes/no checkbox. There are different skills that can serve a team in different ways. What we are missing right now is a player that can create offense either for himself or for others. Jose could do both, and we were great because of it. If we had one guy like that I think many of you would be surprised how “talented” some of the other guys on this team really are.

Now, Pastner isn’t doing us too many favors with the sets we are running either. I don’t study basketball scheme enough to know what the answer is, but what has worked in prior years clearly isn’t working this year.

 

[lv20gt]

Anyone trying to discredit or downplay our championship run is just got an agenda they are trying to push. We finished 4th in conference, but were behind VT only because of the same covid things people try to use to downplay our championship run. We were 4th having the hardest conference schedule, by a good but and were at worst the 3rd best team in conference that year. We had already split against FSU and had two games that were extremely close against UVA. Furthermore we were on a huge win streak going into the championship tournament and you argue at that time we were better than FSU even before the championship game having already beat them convincingly prior. Also, both us and them got by because of covid with them missing the Duke game. That team was one of the best teams in conference that year and to try and downplay that is just stupid.

It's also completely irrelevant to our struggles this year or the baffling coaching decisions. The only reason it is relevant is that it makes it less appealing to just fire Pastner and go for a longshot choice hoping that they catch fire because we already have a coach who has done that. But the reality is we shouldn't want to be going after that type of coach anyways. It's not a recipe for success.

 

[kg01]

One is that we didn't have to play as many games by being the fourth seed. I haven't seen you mention that. You probably just forgot.

Ooh, the snark is strong with this one....

 

[Root4GT]

Some of the comments regarding talent on this thread are incredibly lazy. Talent isn’t a yes/no checkbox. There are different skills that can serve a team in different ways. What we are missing right now is a player that can create offense either for himself or for others. Jose could do both, and we were great because of it. If we had one guy like that I think many of you would be surprised how “talented” some of the other guys on this team really are.

Now, Pastner isn’t doing us too many favors with the sets we are running either. I don’t study basketball scheme enough to know what the answer is, but what has worked in prior years clearly isn’t working this year.

So please explain the ACC starter level talent you see from individual players on our team if you dare. Several, in my opinion would be solid off the bench players for many ACC teams. I don't see any with "complete" games at this point. Kelly might get there with better teammates and coaching and Moore if he continues to develop still has a solid upside. The rest, to me, all have major decencies in their games that would limit their playing time on top half ACC teams. Care to share your thoughts?

 

[ESPNjacket]

Ooh, the snark is strong with this one....

I haven't even mentioned the "extra rest" narrative isn't brought up about FSU, who didn't have to play Duke the night before they played Carolina.

It is all simply justification to discredit the guy they don't like. If they would simply say they don't like the guy it wouldn't bother me. Everyone can like or dislike who they want.

If Duke won with our exact draw the only discussion would be whether the most important factor was K being able to master an uncertain situation or Duke just being better than everyone else when the chips were down. And everyone reading this knows that is the truth.

 

[Techster]

The writing is on the wall for Pastner at GT. I like Pastner as a person, but I think he's outlived his effectiveness as a coach for GT. It happens...and it's time. Now it's a matter of whether or not Batt will pull the trigger...and my feeling is that the process is probably already under way. Given the buyout size, it's almost a self inflicted gunshot wound to keep Pastner beyond this season. After hearing about the football coaching search, I'm more than confident the money is there if Batt is willing to ask for it. Of course, it comes with strings attached...it always does with the GT donors with the deepest pockets.

Players transferring out shouldn't be a factor. In this age of free transfers and NIL, players leaving shouldn't even be in the top 3 of reasons of whether you fire a coach or hire a certain coach. In fact, there are probably some coaches that will probably view GT as a more attractive option if a certain amount of this roster left of their own volition. It's a lot easier now to recruit and remake a basketball team with free transfers and NIL as opposed to a few years ago when transfers had to sit for a season, and you couldn't entice them with NIL.

Right now, my biggest worry is whether hiring the next MBB coach turns into a sports drama the HFC search almost turned into. IMO, hiring the next MBB coach will be easier than finding our HFC. There's a lot less moving parts...and it will be an easier sell for a lot of donors because there wasn't the drama of a replacement coach on staff out performing expectations and gaining support of influential donors. I'd be shocked if Pastner isn't let go within weeks of the season ending. The people in charge now (Cabrera and Batt) are pretty matter of fact about production, and have no ties to Pastner. Pastner just has not been producing...on the court, or in recruiting.

Let's weather the last games and hope our players stay healthy. I think this argument will be replaced by who should be our coach soon enough.

 

[Golden Tornadoes]

The writing is on the wall for Pastner at GT. I like Pastner as a person, but I think he's outlived his effectiveness as a coach for GT. It happens...and it's time. Now it's a matter of whether or not Batt will pull the trigger...and my feeling is that the process is probably already under way. Given the buyout size, it's almost a self inflicted gunshot wound to keep Pastner beyond this season. After hearing about the football coaching search, I'm more than confident the money is there if Batt is willing to ask for it. Of course, it comes with strings attached...it always does with the GT donors with the deepest pockets.

Players transferring out shouldn't be a factor. In this age of free transfers and NIL, players leaving shouldn't even be in the top 3 of reasons of whether you fire a coach or hire a certain coach. In fact, there are probably some coaches that will probably view GT as a more attractive option if a certain amount of this roster left of their own volition. It's a lot easier now to recruit and remake a basketball team with free transfers and NIL as opposed to a few years ago when transfers had to sit for a season, and you couldn't entice them with NIL.

Right now, my biggest worry is whether hiring the next MBB coach turns into a sports drama the HFC search almost turned into. IMO, hiring the next MBB coach will be easier than finding our HFC. There's a lot less moving parts...and it will be an easier sell for a lot of donors because there wasn't the drama of a replacement coach on staff out performing expectations and gaining support of influential donors. I'd be shocked if Pastner isn't let go within weeks of the season ending. The people in charge now (Cabrera and Batt) are pretty matter of fact about production, and have no ties to Pastner. Pastner just has not been producing...on the court, or in recruiting.

Let's weather the last games and hope our players stay healthy. I think this argument will be replaced by who should be our coach soon enough.

I completely agree. LSU completely rebuilt their roster through the transfer portal so we know it can be done. My question is who do we go after? I believe someone said it earlier that there are no clear cut candidates out there to be had. At least with football we had some options both internally and externally, but this year, other than Pat Kelsey (who EVERYONE will be after), who should we target that either A). Didn't get a fair shake at their previous job and has qualities that would make them a good fit here. B). Is at a lower division school but has a proven track record of winning and turning things around. C). Obscure assistant somewhere at a high major school who has the chops to take over a struggling program? If we make a move to just make a move, it hurts just as much than to just keep CJP (which I am NOT advocating for).

 

[Connell62]

I'm not saying that you are, but we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to LSU. Yes, they rebuilt their entire roster through the portal, but that is because they have donors willing to pony up big bucks. Even if our donors decided to invest, it would never be on par with the bags LSU drops. Perhaps better examples are what Pitt and Wake have been able to do.

I'm not sold on the fact that we have money. Maybe you guys were watching a different coaching search than me for football, but we seemed to do the opposite. Word is that we were unable to offer the required salary a couple of the coaches on the list. Thank God for Brent Key and his love for GT (and his willingness to accept a lesser salary). We paid a buyout to Collins and his staff that exceeded $13M. Make that mistake, that was a setback that we weren't prepared for IMO. In other words, we weren't shopping for Cadillac's. Why would anyone expect that we are going to splurge on a basketball coach or even invest what is required to land someone that is coveted by other programs.

 

[Techster]

I'm not sold on the fact that we have money. Maybe you guys were watching a different coaching search than me for football, but we seemed to do the opposite. Word is that we were unable to offer the required salary a couple of the coaches on the list. Thank God for Brent Key and his love for GT (and his willingness to accept a lesser salary). We paid a buyout to Collins and his staff that exceeded $13M. Make that mistake, that was a setback that we weren't prepared for IMO. In other words, we weren't shopping for Cadillac's. Why would anyone expect that we are going to splurge on a basketball coach or even invest what is required to land someone that is coveted by other programs.

This is what I heard from a donor:

The money was there...it was just divided. Certain groups were not willing to put money in the pool if it was Coach A, other groups were not willing to put money in if it was Coach B, etc. At the end of the day, Key was settled on because of politics and the money was there for him and his staff. The total pool of $$$ would have gotten us a good coach if everyone was on the same page...everyone was not on the same page at the end of the day.

The MBB coaching situation does not have the same drama (yet...and hopefully won't), and the buyout is far smaller than what it was with Collins. There are a few donors who LOVE GTMBB more than GTFB and they would be able to afford the buyout themselves if asked.

 

[slugboy]

This is what I heard from a donor:

The money was there...it was just divided. Certain groups were not willing to put money in the pool if it was Coach A, other groups were not willing to put money in if it was Coach B, etc. At the end of the day, Key was settled on because of politics and the money was there for him and his staff. The total pool of $$$ would have gotten us a good coach if everyone was on the same page...everyone was not on the same page at the end of the day.

The MBB coaching situation does not have the same drama (yet...and hopefully won't), and the buyout is far smaller than what it was with Collins. There are a few donors who LOVE GTMBB more than GTFB and they would be able to afford the buyout themselves if asked.

That does kind of translate as “the money wasn’t there” (entirely). At Auburn or South Carolina, a single donor would take care of it.
Still, I’d say it was more due to objections—Fritz wanted too long of a contract after too long of a contract to the previous coach, Chadwell wanted concessions and donors wanted a “non-option” coach, etc.

I understand someone wanting to see the money for GTMBB to believe it, since it hasn’t been visible for about a decade or so.

 

[Techster]

That does kind of translate as “the money wasn’t there” (entirely). At Auburn or South Carolina, a single donor would take care of it.
Still, I’d say it was more due to objections—Fritz wanted too long of a contract after too long of a contract to the previous coach, Chadwell wanted concessions and donors wanted a “non-option” coach, etc.

I understand someone wanting to see the money for GTMBB to believe it, since it hasn’t been visible for about a decade or so.

Hence my "strings attached" comment in my OP.

We'll see in a few weeks when the season ends. My gut feeling is Pastner is coaching his last games at GT.

 

[g0lftime]

Hence my "strings attached" comment in my OP.

We'll see in a few weeks when the season ends. My gut feeling is Pastner is coaching his last games at GT.

Lots of coach interactions occur at the final four. Easy to "accidentally" bump into potential candidates there or just find out who might get recommended.

 

[dtm1997]

That does kind of translate as “the money wasn’t there” (entirely). At Auburn or South Carolina, a single donor would take care of it.
Still, I’d say it was more due to objections—Fritz wanted too long of a contract after too long of a contract to the previous coach, Chadwell wanted concessions and donors wanted a “non-option” coach, etc.

I understand someone wanting to see the money for GTMBB to believe it, since it hasn’t been visible for about a decade or so.

We've fully crossed that decade mark for a lack of investment. A new building is only as good as what you put in it, so I discount that entirely.

 

[57jacket]

I completely agree. LSU completely rebuilt their roster through the transfer portal so we know it can be done. My question is who do we go after? I believe someone said it earlier that there are no clear cut candidates out there to be had. At least with football we had some options both internally and externally, but this year, other than Pat Kelsey (who EVERYONE will be after), who should we target that either A). Didn't get a fair shake at their previous job and has qualities that would make them a good fit here. B). Is at a lower division school but has a proven track record of winning and turning things around. C). Obscure assistant somewhere at a high major school who has the chops to take over a struggling program? If we make a move to just make a move, it hurts just as much than to just keep CJP (which I am NOT advocating for).

B)

 

[kg01]

Thank God for Brent Key and his love for GT (and his willingness to accept a lesser salary).

It's our turn, c62. Gimme half what they wanna pay and I'll put together a GoaT staff.

You can be special asst to the HC. Need someone level-headed to take over when I get ejected from games.

@dtm1997 can be the OC. No one's more offensive than him.

@Techster can be our compliance guy to say 'no' whenever we wanna do something crazy. Everybody hates him anyways so he'd thrive as the fun-killer.

@Peacone36 has got to be in the building, grad asst. Gotta have somebody on staff to yell at. What's more fun than yellin' at peac? Nothing. That's what.

@MidtownJacket is on the trail. His effervescent personality, and the 'catering' package we'll negotiate with Magic City, will ensure the 'cruits make the right decision.

Thats the makings of a championship staff.

 

[MidtownJacket]

solid staff we got going.

 

[dtm1997]

It's our turn, c62. Gimme half what they wanna pay and I'll put together a GoaT staff.

You can be special asst to the HC. Need someone level-headed to take over when I get ejected from games.

@dtm1997 can be the OC. No one's more offensive than him.

@Techster can be our compliance guy to say 'no' whenever we wanna do something crazy. Everybody hates him anyways so he'd thrive as the fun-killer.

@Peacone36 has got to be in the building, grad asst. Gotta have somebody on staff to yell at. What's more fun than yellin' at peac? Nothing. That's what.

@MidtownJacket is on the trail. His effervescent personality, and the 'catering' package we'll negotiate with Magic City, will ensure the 'cruits make the right decision.

Thats the makings of a championship staff.

This staff will go defeated.

 

[link3945]

I completely agree. LSU completely rebuilt their roster through the transfer portal so we know it can be done. My question is who do we go after? I believe someone said it earlier that there are no clear cut candidates out there to be had. At least with football we had some options both internally and externally, but this year, other than Pat Kelsey (who EVERYONE will be after), who should we target that either A). Didn't get a fair shake at their previous job and has qualities that would make them a good fit here. B). Is at a lower division school but has a proven track record of winning and turning things around. C). Obscure assistant somewhere at a high major school who has the chops to take over a struggling program? If we make a move to just make a move, it hurts just as much than to just keep CJP (which I am NOT advocating for).

Are you talking about this year? Because LSU is kinda bad. They might be a worse shooting team than us.

 

[kg01]

This staff will go defeated.

Only if the OC is set on reviving the vaunted CTO.