What would change your opinion?

Ash

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I would be good with turning the games against VT,UGA and Miami into rivalry on par with Clemson. I know we are not going to win every one of them, but keeping things competitive and taking a few years here and there would be nice. Actually, I would like to see a win over UGA in Bobby Dodd less than once every 15 years.
 

ATL1

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Consistently win 10+ games ...
Hell if there is some minor miracle and GT wins 9+ games this coming season I will STHU about CPJ. If we do so while beating UGA even better.
 

iceeater1969

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I am in the middle of the road on coach - love the concept of triple option, but am disappointed about coaches slow response to Groh s passive defense that exposed lack of talent, slow to put foot down on lack of recruiters, failure to recruit in Texas, failure to play backups early in year so they are somewhat credible at the end of the year. I will be moving to the total negative if we lose to gsu and the big 4. Win last 6 games this season and win a good bowl and I am moving to positive with optimism for a brutal 2015 schedule.
 

ramblinvak

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I am in the middle of the road on coach - love the concept of triple option, but am disappointed about coaches slow response to Groh s passive defense that exposed lack of talent, slow to put foot down on lack of recruiters, failure to recruit in Texas, failure to play backups early in year so they are somewhat credible at the end of the year. I will be moving to the total negative if we lose to gsu and the big 4. Win last 6 games this season and win a good bowl and I am moving to positive with optimism for a brutal 2015 schedule.

In defense of coach, with hindsight it makes sense that it Groh's termination was delayed. When Groh got here in 2010, he said it would take 2 years to implement his system to get the players he wanted and teach the scheme he wanted to play. With that in mind, we all thought it would be during that 2012 season that the defense would be leaps and bounds better. I was at the spring game that year and the defense looked good. When the season opened at VT, we held them at 20 and thought at that time that if our defense could play like this the rest of the season, this would be our year. Little did we know that VTs offense would be atrocious that year. It was not until the come from behind loss we had against Miami that we truly realized that the Groh experiment was not going to work, so he was canned at the first opportunity, the bye week. I dont believe CPJ acted slowly based on what Groh said coming in. I do agree the failure of Groh does fall on CPJ, but at the time Groh was hired, a lot of people were praising CPJ for how good of a hire that was. Based on this years draft and an article by Ken at the AJC, he was able to show just how good the playmakers we had on defense were during the 2012 season, and it is a shame we were note able to capitalize that season, considering it was statistically one of our better offensive seasons with CPJ. Hindsight truly is 20/20.
 

Boomergump

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What would it take to change my opinion? I guess it would start with failing to graduate his players. Then if it became obvious he was losing the players on the field, it would be too much for me. If we are not competitive, he would lose my support. That hasn't happened yet.

What are my expectations? Well, I don't think I will ever be satisfied, but if we had a .500 record in the close games, I would be a lot closer to happy than I am now. Had we done that the last three years, I don't think there would be nearly the amount of dissension there is now. Just finish baby.
 

TampaGT

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I am one that thinks CPJ will succeed. I might be the only one that believes this but I think we must judge CPJ in two phases.
The first phase are very basic things.
  1. can he coach at this level
  2. will his O work at this level
  3. does he run a clean program
  4. will he graduate his players
I think he passed this phase. Because of this he got extra help (more $ and control in recruiting) I think he needs be allowed to show what he can do with this extra help. The second phase is still #3 and #4 from above and be a Top 25 team more years than not, compete for ACC and Coastal Champ. Since most of this about the Jimmy and Joe's you have to give him the 14 and 15 classes to graduate.

So to answer the question if in 4 or 5 years if #3 and #4 have changed and finishing middle of the pack or below in the Coastal.
With that said I really hope CPJ will be at GT like FB is at VT. It takes time to build a program, but you have to stay the course to reap the benefits. Changing every 5 or 6 years really hurts the program.
 

iceeater1969

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In defense of coach, with hindsight it makes sense that it Groh's termination was delayed. When Groh got here in 2010, he said it would take 2 years to implement his system to get the players he wanted and teach the scheme he wanted to play. With that in mind, we all thought it would be during that 2012 season that the defense would be leaps and bounds better. I was at the spring game that year and the defense looked good. When the season opened at VT, we held them at 20 and thought at that time that if our defense could play like this the rest of the season, this would be our year. Little did we know that VTs offense would be atrocious that year. It was not until the come from behind loss we had against Miami that we truly realized that the Groh experiment was not going to work, so he was canned at the first opportunity, the bye week. I dont believe CPJ acted slowly based on what Groh said coming in. I do agree the failure of Groh does fall on CPJ, but at the time Groh was hired, a lot of people were praising CPJ for how good of a hire that was. Based on this years draft and an article by Ken at the AJC, he was able to show just how good the playmakers we had on defense were during the 2012 season, and it is a shame we were note able to capitalize that season, considering it was statistically one of our better offensive seasons with CPJ. Hindsight truly is 20/20.

I was biased against Groh because the complicated bend but don't break defense made the players play soft and give up yds after tackle. Coach must have known this system would be used and with a change to 3-4 would be tough.

You forgot to mention that in 2012 we had one of the worst losses in our schools history - if not for it , Groh would have made it to end of year. MTSU scores again!

Head coaches are hired to head off this kind of problem.

That is the past and by whatever means we have a pretty aggressive defense and some coaching help for his long time friend sewak , we are poised for a potentially very good season. Coach deserves credit for holding it together and as boomer said a lot of credit for graduating our players. THWG
 

ramblinvak

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I was biased against Groh because the complicated bend but don't break defense made the players play soft and give up yds after tackle. Coach must have known this system would be used and with a change to 3-4 would be tough.

You forgot to mention that in 2012 we had one of the worst losses in our schools history - if not for it , Groh would have made it to end of year. MTSU scores again!

Head coaches are hired to head off this kind of problem.

That is the past and by whatever means we have a pretty aggressive defense and some coaching help for his long time friend sewak , we are poised for a potentially very good season. Coach deserves credit for holding it together and as boomer said a lot of credit for graduating our players. THWG

I agree that he should have known better when hiring Groh. I feel like that was the only candidate he interviewed. Anyways, we are much better off.
 

Techster

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I was biased against Groh because the complicated bend but don't break defense made the players play soft and give up yds after tackle. Coach must have known this system would be used and with a change to 3-4 would be tough.

You forgot to mention that in 2012 we had one of the worst losses in our schools history - if not for it , Groh would have made it to end of year. MTSU scores again!

Head coaches are hired to head off this kind of problem.

That is the past and by whatever means we have a pretty aggressive defense and some coaching help for his long time friend sewak , we are poised for a potentially very good season. Coach deserves credit for holding it together and as boomer said a lot of credit for graduating our players. THWG

Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time it looked like a pretty good hire. Groh was known as one of the best defensive minds in all of the game (on the pro and college level). Guys like Saban and Belichek both swapped ideas with him during the offseason. Groh coached under/with some of the best coaches in the history of the game. GT was definitely getting a coach with a lot of cache at the time.

UNFORTUNATELY, sometimes what looks good on paper ends up not working out in real life. I think somewhere during his tenure at UVA the game just passed him by. Groh's defenses were just too time intensive for it to work on this level, and he was slow to adjust during games.
 

MidtownJacket

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echoing the sentiment here - Groh seemed solid (at least to me) and there was a lot of positive buzz around the program with the hire.

I think CPJ tried to give him an opportunity to right the ship (some see that as soft, I see it as trying to make sure your investment in his wasn't totally wasted) but after MTSU we knew he had to go. Pulling the trigger in a HIGHLY public job position, at a HUGELY Historically successful coach with lots of connections and trying to make sure bridges didn't get burned. Not an easy task, and obviously based on CAG's comments not exactly perfect.

I think CPJ did the best he could in a crap situation.
 

Boomergump

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I was totally wrong about the Groh hire and I admit it. At the time I thought he was an absolute steal. Every bone in my body felt like it was a great idea, so it is hard for me to blame CPJ for the hire. I give CPJ credit for dealing with it mid-season and not letting it fester any further. However, unlike me, he is accountable for the decision in the first place. It is inextricably a part of his coaching record and needs to be considered when characterizing his tenure here. Hopefully we will all be delighted in the Roof hire for years to come.
 

AE 87

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@Boomergump just expressed my opinion about the Groh hire and CPJ's responsibility as well. Below average Defense over CPJ's tenure has been the greatest cause of concern for me.

I don't think anything will easily change my mind about CPJ as an offensive genius. As I've posted before, I put a lot of stock in efficiency stats like pts/drive and the footballoutsiders' stats. We've been consistently good and occasionally very good in offensive efficiency. One bad seasons here or there won't change my mind.

However, if our D does not improve dramatically then my concerns about CPJ's effectiveness over the whole team will strengthen.
 

iceeater1969

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Guys - like you I was fired up by the hire. My oldest son coaches football and said that at a major coaching clinic , Groh and the virginia staff had made test best and and most organized presentation he had ever seen. He was very optimistic but quickly changed opinions saying the players were tentative and out of position and too predictable . Boy Groh was a low class after he left. That is another question market about the hire.
Let's move on and give coach through 15.
We are all tech men and women so we march on to THWG this year and next!
 

AlabamaBuzz

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The results on the CPJ Poll are conclusive. The majority of voters on this forum (70% in fact) want CPJ to succeed and they believe he will at GT.

So after reviewing the poll and its comments, I pose a new question to both sides.
What would change your opinion???

For those that think he will succeed: What would change your opinion on this?

For those that think he won't succeed: What would change your opinion on this?
If PJ suddenly got some "high 3-star and/or a few 4-star" guys at DL, WR, and RB (had Custis, now does not), I would believe a turn-around was possible. I still believe his system, with talent within 25% of the big guys, will give us a chance to compete against anyone. Right now, I do not believe any significant improvement is on the horizon. I think recruiting to his system (along with the already-difficult GT academic rigor negativity) is getting harder and harder, not easier and easier. I am a realist though, and I do believe it would also take the next coach several years to improve the situation, and that improvement may not even be possible as this age of "factory-football" grows stronger.....

For those that don't want him here at all: What would change your opinion on this?

In other words, if CPJ were to do _____ then it would change my opinion. Or if we won or lost X amount of games or beat/lost UGA this season etc... This would change my opinion.

What in your mind would need to occur for your current opinion of CPJ to change?


See answer above....
 

Whiskey_Clear

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I agree. And I don't want to derail the OP but I would like to add a caveat. I would like to see our recruiting efforts have more success with the kids that CAN make it here academically but choose other schools.

I would like to see us be more successful against all schools that we compete against in recruiting and all states that we recruit in, but namely I would like to see us be more successful with the kids that choose to leave the state of Georgia that can make it here academically.

Stanford and Vanderbilt have taken their share from us over the years, as have other schools with equal or lower academic prestige.

I am not overly intrigued by the "exceptions rule". I would like to see more HS athletes that are in the like of a Calvin Johnson (great athlete and great student) if you will. I know it is somewhat rare but its do able imo. We see kids that can make it here academically and make a huge impact on the gridiron and yet they go elsewhere. I want to win more of those battles. And I am sure the coaches do too.
Hate to beat a dead horse but limited number of majors has played a part in our "losses" to Stanford n Vandy. Don't recall any that were engineer majors. Dunno if any were bness majors.
 

IronJacket7

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Hate to beat a dead horse but limited number of majors has played a part in our "losses" to Stanford n Vandy. Don't recall any that were engineer majors. Dunno if any were bness majors.

Remember JR Lemon? There have been others. Its not happened a lot. But I know we have lost a few. Its going to happen. That's a given. I would just like to see the ratio get better. I am sure its probably 50/50 even though it seems worse. I would like to see us land 75% of the higher academic players than to see them go elsewhere. At least from our own state. I know I may be setting the bar high.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Remember JR Lemon? There have been others. Its not happened a lot. But I know we have lost a few. Its going to happen. That's a given. I would just like to see the ratio get better. I am sure its probably 50/50 even though it seems worse. I would like to see us land 75% of the higher academic players than to see them go elsewhere. At least from our own state. I know I may be setting the bar high.
Just curious, how many kids from Ga fit this description every year? I'm talking about kids who are both academically and athletically elite. By elite, I mean top 5% of their graduating class as well as being 4 or 5 star football recruits.

Now consider the fact that Stanford offers the best of both worlds. They have better academics, even engineering, and better athletics than GT. More importantly, they are more prestigious on both counts than GT. Prestige is what really matters to these kids, btw.
 

IronJacket7

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Just curious, how many kids from Ga fit this description every year? I'm talking about kids who are both academically and athletically elite. By elite, I mean top 5% of their graduating class as well as being 4 or 5 star football recruits.

Now consider the fact that Stanford offers the best of both worlds. They have better academics, even engineering, and better athletics than GT. More importantly, they are more prestigious on both counts than GT. Prestige is what really matters to these kids, btw.

I too would like to know the exact numbers. It just "seems" that we see kids with great talent and excellent gpa at other schools and then we say, "Wonder if GT/we ever recruited him?", "Did we offer that kid?" or "I wonder how we let that one slip through the crack?". And I know I used Calvin Johnson as an example in one of my other posts but I am not referring solely to 4 and 5 stars. I am not referring to stars at all really. I am referring to great athletes with high academics that can play at an elite level. These could be any star ranking imo.

I agree kids love a schools prestige. I think GT has a great historical prestige and a decent current prestige. But I think was kids are more drawn to Coaches and Brand. Again that's just my opinion.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I too would like to know the exact numbers. It just "seems" that we see kids with great talent and excellent gpa at other schools and then we say, "Wonder if GT/we ever recruited him?", "Did we offer that kid?" or "I wonder how we let that one slip through the crack?". And I know I used Calvin Johnson as an example in one of my other posts but I am not referring solely to 4 and 5 stars. I am not referring to stars at all really. I am referring to great athletes with high academics that can play at an elite level. These could be any star ranking imo.

I agree kids love a schools prestige. I think GT has a great historical prestige and a decent current prestige. But I think was kids are more drawn to Coaches and Brand. Again that's just my opinion.
The kind of prestige most kids care about today is the "ESPrestigeN" variety. The brainiac blue chips want that Stanford rag hangin' in their office when they meet with clients.
 
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