What would change your opinion?

IronJacket7

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The results on the CPJ Poll are conclusive. The majority of voters on this forum (70% in fact) want CPJ to succeed and they believe he will at GT.

So after reviewing the poll and its comments, I pose a new question to both sides.
What would change your opinion???

For those that think he will succeed: What would change your opinion on this?
For those that think he won't succeed: What would change your opinion on this?
For those that don't want him here at all: What would change your opinion on this?

In other words, if CPJ were to do _____ then it would change my opinion. Or if we won or lost X amount of games or beat/lost UGA this season etc... This would change my opinion.

What in your mind would need to occur for your current opinion of CPJ to change?
 
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The results on the CPJ Poll are conclusive. The majority of voters on this forum (70% in fact) want CPJ to succeed and they believe he will at GT.

So after reviewing the poll and its comments, I pose a new question to both sides.
What would change your opinion???

For those that think he will succeed: What would change your opinion on this?
For those that think he won't succeed: What would change your opinion on this?
For those that don't want him here at all: What would change your opinion on this?

In other words, if CPJ were to do _____ then it would change my opinion. Or if we won or lost X amount of games or beat/lost UGA this season etc... This would change my opinion.

What in your mind would need to occur for your current opinion of CPJ to change?
For starters, it is not that I don't want him here at all, I just want better for our program than he has been delivering. I would put nine regular season wins as a mininmum for granting him a contract extension at the end of this year. Then, with the extension, at least nine wins next year. That would change my opinion of whether he has the ability to get it done here at Tech. And sadly, I have no expectation of beating Georgia. I see that string continuing until one of the schools changes coaches.
 

SidewalkJacket

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First, I want CPJ to succeed at GT. I think there are some that don't, due to some dislike of the man personally. And I am in the camp that thinks he will succeed over time at GT. My idea of that success, though, is consistent top-25 finishes and always being in contention for an ACC title. Our talent level will make it difficult to set anything else as an expectation, but my belief in CPJ as a good coach causes me to expect those two things.

Thus, since we haven't accomplished those two goals recently, one more season of missing out on them will probably force me to reevaluate. On this board I tend to cast my lot with the optimists ("excuse makers" for those who differ), but with our schedule this year, it would be hard for me to be pleased with less than 9 wins. My opinion would also begin to change if we don't beat UGAg within the next two years. Not because we have the talent they do (we don't), but because I still think CPJ is a better coach that CMR. And over time, a good coach gets the better of a lesser coach with more talent sometimes. 1 out of 6 is a little too infrequent. I would think 1 out of 3-4 could be expected. I know some of my fellow "excuse makers" will disagree on that last point, but that's how I feel.
 

takethepoints

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A losing season. Or, more like it, 2 in a row. Sort of like Bill L•••s.

Like I said yesterday, one of the problems with our fan base is that we haven't seen really bad football at Tech in a loooooong time. In this we mimic the Dwags: they have good seasons, but they aren't good enough since they don't win MNCs. We have good seasons, but they aren't good enough for many fans because we don't win 9 a year, like, say, LSU or Ohio State. Both sets of expectations are sure fails: you don't win MNCs with talent, you win them with talent and luck; you don't win 9 a year every year at a school with Tech's admission standards and limited curriculum. (I'm sorry, but you just don't.)

As I keep saying, Coach is the guy who is most likely to maximize the wins we get at Tech since his O allows targeted recruiting of players who can a) do the job and b) get into Tech. That's why we hired him in the first place. All we have to do is get better on D and get the parts coordinated on O. The former is by far the more difficult proposition. On D, we often have to take shots in the dark (Gotsis) or players who were good in HS but don't fit the mold at the next level (Green) or that we hope will grow into the position (Vance Walker). From the selection just given, you can see that we can succeed with that model, but it's a lot more hit and miss. Hope we can see more hits this year; we'll need it early.
 

IronJacket7

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First, I want CPJ to succeed at GT. I think there are some that don't, due to some dislike of the man personally. And I am in the camp that thinks he will succeed over time at GT. My idea of that success, though, is consistent top-25 finishes and always being in contention for an ACC title. Our talent level will make it difficult to set anything else as an expectation, but my belief in CPJ as a good coach causes me to expect those two things.

Thus, since we haven't accomplished those two goals recently, one more season of missing out on them will probably force me to reevaluate. On this board I tend to cast my lot with the optimists ("excuse makers" for those who differ), but with our schedule this year, it would be hard for me to be pleased with less than 9 wins. My opinion would also begin to change if we don't beat UGAg within the next two years. Not because we have the talent they do (we don't), but because I still think CPJ is a better coach that CMR. And over time, a good coach gets the better of a lesser coach with more talent sometimes. 1 out of 6 is a little too infrequent. I would think 1 out of 3-4 could be expected. I know some of my fellow "excuse makers" will disagree on that last point, but that's how I feel.
Great post. I also think 1 out of 3-4 could be expected. I think its fair. But losing 4 in a row or more is not acceptable. That's a full recruiting class cycle and by 4 years you should have beaten your rivals at least once during that 4 year span (jmho).

I also want CPJ to succeed. However, my vote was cast in the "I don't think he will" slot. I want him to badly but the last few seasons have led me to believe we are trending down.

What would change my opinion on this is winning 9 games this season and at least 8 or 9 next. A win against UGA would be ideal as well. But the precedent for me would be either 8 wins with one being against UGA or 9 wins against whomever.

I have said this before and many disagree with me but I think this season is the "fork in the road season" for his tenure here. I agree with the 9 game assessment that you and @Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau eluded to. 9 games this season could get it going in the right direction imo. But we can't come out next season and go back to 7 wins, losing to UGA, losing Bowl game etc... again.
 

SidewalkJacket

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A losing season. Or, more like it, 2 in a row. Sort of like Bill L•••s.

Like I said yesterday, one of the problems with our fan base is that we haven't seen really bad football at Tech in a loooooong time. In this we mimic the Dwags: they have good seasons, but they aren't good enough since they don't win MNCs. We have good seasons, but they aren't good enough for many fans because we don't win 9 a year, like, say, LSU or Ohio State. Both sets of expectations are sure fails: you don't win MNCs with talent, you win them with talent and luck; you don't win 9 a year every year at a school with Tech's admission standards and limited curriculum. (I'm sorry, but you just don't.)

As I keep saying, Coach is the guy who is most likely to maximize the wins we get at Tech since his O allows targeted recruiting of players who can a) do the job and b) get into Tech. That's why we hired him in the first place. All we have to do is get better on D and get the parts coordinated on O. The former is by far the more difficult proposition. On D, we often have to take shots in the dark (Gotsis) or players who were good in HS but don't fit the mold at the next level (Green) or that we hope will grow into the position (Vance Walker). From the selection just given, you can see that we can succeed with that model, but it's a lot more hit and miss. Hope we can see more hits this year; we'll need it early.
I agree with your overall sentiment. Dave Braine was more right that he was wrong, even if he was a douche about it. Its a tough pill for most to swallow. BUT, that's part of being a GT fan, and that's why I wanted CPJ, and that's why I want to keep CPJ. To prove Braine wrong every few seasons. And to those who would say that means I "accept mediocrity", I say this: I will never be pleased with mediocre seasons. Every single year I want GT to win a MNC. And every single year I hold a secret belief that we will. What I will accept, however, is competing with academic and personal integrity and consistently winning more than we lose. I believe CPJ will continue to do this, but as I stated in my last post, I expect things to be a tick above where they are right now.
 

jayparr

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To continue the bowl streak with an occasional 9 win or better season. This is about you can hope for with the hill the way they are! Of course not knowing anymore about the added exceptions that have been granted.
 

TheTaxJacket

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Just win baby.

Seriously, my only gripe is the lack of QB development. If he could just develop a QB and we could see marked improvement year to year that would likely translate to some more wins.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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Here is what I desire in a head coach. Ability to get Tech at a level to compete with everyone on the schedule every year. Be a contender for the division and conference championship yearly (and win our share from time to time). Run a clean program. Graduate players. Be competitive with the mutts (we have probably lost 2 we shoulda won...I think that worm will turn but don't expect to beat them 4 straight starting this year). We do these things and I can bear a subpar year or two between the good years.
 

Ggee87

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I voted that I want CPJ to succeed and that I also believe that he will. Im not the eternal optimist that alot of people on here are, but I am coming around a little. I want to see some of these new recruits get on the field and Roofs D in year 2 and 3 first. CPJ has his back against the wall and I want to see him come out swinging. I personally think that the QB,BB positions have been underperforming the past couple years and making our offense alot easier to slow down.
What would change my mind on this is if we dont win atleast 9 games next year with atleast 1 or 2 wins over stout teams. I understand the challenges of GT alot more now than I used to so im willing to be more lenient on expectations. Next years schedule is weak and we should be able to accomplish these goals.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I'm starting to think the whole "unlimited exceptions" thing is looking like a false plus. We've just witnessed two exceptions falter and it kills our ability to compete when that happens. Remember, the guys who typically fall into the exceptions category are gonna be guys we are counting on big time. I think CPJ is gonna be very leery about offering academically questionable guys in the future unless some serious changes are made to course curriculum choice (more easy majors/classes) and I don't see that happening.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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I should also add those are my minimum expectations. I also believe CPJ is capable of more and has a shot at raising the bar for us if given the chance. I think he is capable of getting us to the point we are consistent division favorites and on a break even level with the mutts. We get there and ill be in football nirvana. And I think we can. Championships will follow.
 

GTRX7

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I was in the camp that wants him to succeed and believe he can, but think he may run out of time. In order to feel safe, I think he either needs 9 wins this year or 8 with a win over UGA. 2015 will be extremely difficult and I would be okay (though not excited) with 8.

He has honestly done most of the things I have wanted him to do. He got the special teams coach, got two new defensive coaches, has tried to upgrade the recruiting and staff, and even tried adjusting his scheme for Vad. And I am happy this new coach will help out with the O-line. I can't ask him to do a whole lot more...except just be more successful at it. I just worry that our talent level right now is not at the point where that is going to happen quickly. Unless JT exceeds my expectations, I would not be surprised to see 7 wins this year and an irrevocably fractured fan base.
 

GTRX7

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And, for the record, I generally do think he has done a good job about always being in contention for the ACC title. We have obviously made the title game twice and I think were still in contention for a spot in the championship game going into the last week of the season in three of the other four years (making it 5 out of 6 that we were in real contention to make the ACC championship game). That generally meets my ACC expectations.
 

Ggee87

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I was in the camp that wants him to succeed and believe he can, but think he may run out of time. In order to feel safe, I think he either needs 9 wins this year or 8 with a win over UGA. 2015 will be extremely difficult and I would be okay (though not excited) with 8.

He has honestly done most of the things I have wanted him to do. He got the special teams coach, got two new defensive coaches, has tried to upgrade the recruiting and staff, and even tried adjusting his scheme for Vad. And I am happy this new coach will help out with the O-line. I can't ask him to do a whole lot more...except just be more successful at it. I just worry that our talent level right now is not at the point where that is going to happen quickly. Unless JT exceeds my expectations, I would not be surprised to see 7 wins this year and an irrevocably fractured fan base.
This is something you have to give the man credit for. Once he diagnoses a problem, he does his best to remedy the situation. Recognizing problems quickly is his main downfall.
 

MidtownJacket

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When people hit the HILL about the limitations I am curious - would you really change things? Frankly I love football, and LOVE winning, but came to TECH for the degree and as far as I am concerned, if we are competitive for the ACCCG year in and year out with the occasional win against uGAG I am happy. The Tech experience is about Academics and Integrity and I do not want that to change
 

danny daniel

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I really like CPJ and the recent steps he has taken are certainly a plus. However, this year's recruiting is critical . Just this year we have lost Robbins, Akins, T Griffin, Custis, JHD, and maybe Roberts. These were all players we expected to contribute and lots of coaching effort in them have resulted in no payoffs except JHD and Roberts. We are going to need the usual recruits (with hopefully some upgrade) plus replacing these key players. We cannot afford losing Whitehead or some key starters. IMO CPJ's success in the future is tied to this recruiting class. Especially critical are DL, BB, AB, and DB. We always need OL. A poor 2015 recruiting class could change my opinion about CPJ's future at Tech.
 

GTJoeBrew

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I feel that this year is make or break for CPJ. If the team doesn't show major improvement he will lose the fan base. I'm no saying that he will get fired if he doesn't do well this year, but if he loses the fan base, it will only be a matter of time.

We've had some big blows this offseason, so my confidence is starting to waver. I am excited to see what Justin Thomas can do, a lot is riding on this kids shoulders.
 

IronJacket7

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When people hit the HILL about the limitations I am curious - would you really change things? Frankly I love football, and LOVE winning, but came to TECH for the degree and as far as I am concerned, if we are competitive for the ACCCG year in and year out with the occasional win against uGAG I am happy. The Tech experience is about Academics and Integrity and I do not want that to change
I agree. And I don't want to derail the OP but I would like to add a caveat. I would like to see our recruiting efforts have more success with the kids that CAN make it here academically but choose other schools.

I would like to see us be more successful against all schools that we compete against in recruiting and all states that we recruit in, but namely I would like to see us be more successful with the kids that choose to leave the state of Georgia that can make it here academically.

Stanford and Vanderbilt have taken their share from us over the years, as have other schools with equal or lower academic prestige.

I am not overly intrigued by the "exceptions rule". I would like to see more HS athletes that are in the like of a Calvin Johnson (great athlete and great student) if you will. I know it is somewhat rare but its do able imo. We see kids that can make it here academically and make a huge impact on the gridiron and yet they go elsewhere. I want to win more of those battles. And I am sure the coaches do too.
 

MidtownJacket

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I agree. And I don't want to derail the OP but I would like to add a caveat. I would like to see our recruiting efforts have more success with the kids that CAN make it here academically but choose other schools.

I would like to see us be more successful against all schools that we compete against in recruiting and all states that we recruit in, but namely I would like to see us be more successful with the kids that choose to leave the state of Georgia that can make it here academically.

Stanford and Vanderbilt have taken their share from us over the years, as have other schools with equal or lower academic prestige.

I am not overly intrigued by the "exceptions rule". I would like to see more HS athletes that are in the like of a Calvin Johnson (great athlete and great student) if you will. I know it is somewhat rare but its do able imo. We see kids that can make it here academically and make a huge impact on the gridiron and yet they go elsewhere. I want to win more of those battles. And I am sure the coaches do too.
No doubt in my mind this is the way to go. We stand out as an Institution of higher learning because we defend and ensure that reputation carries on. There is real value there - and it is something I think CPJ "gets". It is one of the best (non-coaching) elements to him in my opinion.
 
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