What GT does - Pass Blocking

[Augusta_Jacket]

I hear you and agree. All you posted is true. I’m not expecting a freshman or in Paula’s case a redshirt freshman to be a star or even average. But, what we see on video is ineptitude. I don’t think it’s wrong of me to ask why can’t he simply slow down the guy right in front of him. Is it really too much to ask? And the same thing can be asked even of our older guys. I just think guys are too easily given passes for poor performance by saying they are young. We are never going to have a team of all seniors. Sims and Gibbs will be gone by the time these young OLinmen are ready to roll. Then we’ll have the excuse of another young QB.

Listen, I posted when we signed Wing Green that a lot of folks down my way were surprised that GT offered. Why? Because they saw him play and had direct comparisons of him with other players. Collins made it clear he was going after ”bigger” bodies to look good getting of the bus. I totally agree with that strategy but I’m starting to worry that we got measurables but did we get players?

A couple of points to make here:

@ilovetheoption did not break down every play in the game. He is showcasing select ones we can learn from. Our OL is not inept, it is inexperienced and prone to make mistakes often enough to cause drives to break down.

The OL actually performed well enough to allow Sims and the O to put up some serious yardage against a pretty decent defensive effort by Pitt.

Your posts seem to indicate that you react in extremes. Life is rarely extreme, and the truth is usually in the middle. Yes, Sims and Gibbs will likely be gone by the time the OL fully develops. That was always going to be the case. The hope is that CGC continues to land players like Sims and Gibbs in the future and the groundwork this team lays is followed up on by their successors.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I was talking about the Xs and Os. Thanks!

Oh, well. Honestly, they do the same things you do. When I say that GT runs a standard offense, I mean it. When you get under the skin and down to the bones, there are relatively few schemes that the overwhelming majority of squads use. The differences for most teams come down to how they're paired, how they're recruited for, and how they're coached. Yes, some teams do interesting stuff, and yes, some teams specialize in one particular scheme (your Mississippi State's of the world, who run like 6 plays total). But give me a minute, I'll draw a little something up for you.

 

[ilovetheoption]

So, for starters, I like a 335 defense. A lot. Because of the pressure it puts on guards, and because of the reads it asks a QB to make pre-snap. If you asked me to be a DC tomorrow, I'd install a super slanty 335, and hope to hell I could get my Nicklebacks to be able to be able to do enough in pattern matching to base out of some JV version of Saban's Rip/Liz Cover 3.

As a brief explanation, against an Even front you know where guys are going to go. (yes @Ibeeballin I know you can line up your DTs in a 2 technique and slant, but who does that, really) (yes @Ibeeballin I ALSO know you can run stunts and what not, but those take time and you can react).

To wit, when you see an even front, you know the overwhelming majority of the time what gaps the defenders are responsible for...the one they're lined up in:

 

[ilovetheoption]

Alternatively, when you see a 335 (I'll assume a 404 front (ask if that doesn't mean anything to you, I'm happy to go deeper), you have to guess which way people are going to go:

And yes, this is VERY VERY basic, but these are your basic gap responsibility options.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Basically, ever LB and DL act as a switchable pair, and the possibilities get very complicated, very quickly, like:

or

or

With VERY little install work (all of those can be called with very little install, with as many or as few backers coming as you like) you've got a huge variety of gap responsibility (and pass rush responsibility)

 

[ilovetheoption]

So, if you're the left guard, for example, you could have a guy coming at you from either side, from any angle, or you might not have anybody coming at all, if the other team decides to drop 8.

and that's BEFORE you get to stunts, because you can run hella stunts out of a 335

REALLLLLLLY easy to be a LG there, see the NT slant away, see the DE slant to you, see no LB's over you rushing, and decide to pick up the E to help your tackle, and miss Sam sneaking around to run right past you.

All this is to say, there's nothing wrong with a 335 if you play it well. Just by virtue of it's concept, it buys you a lot of confusion and OL uncertainty (particularly among OG's), and defenses LIVE on confusion and uncertainty.

 

[ilovetheoption]

So, what do offenses do about it? Well, they run BOB, and Slide, and Half-Slide, and PA, and hope that rules and practice will enable them to deal with it, just like you do.

In the above stunt if you're running Slide protection right, for example, if you're the LG, and you feel that DE slanting inside, you and the OT need to deal with it, and then you have to have your head on a swivel for something coming the other way. The NG disappeared, so not your problem, but your job as LG is just to understand that just because nobody showed up immediately, that doesn't mean you forget that there's a gap there. Fundamentally, the guy to the left of you is the Tackles problem, and you can help him, because don't block NOBODY, but be there in case somebody shows up on your right, because that's YOUR problem.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Here's an example from you guys:

Pitt is set up in 12/Detroit/Ace/whatever you want to call it (1 back, 2 tight ends, 1 on either side of the formation). You are lined up in what looks like 505 and your LBs are a little offset to the top of the screen, but honestly, it's pretty daggone close.

They Play Slide Right Protection, send both TEs into the pattern (so they're blocking with 6) and you bring 5, dropping your left LB into coverage.

As with the plays from you guys above, there are enough blockers to block the defense, if they can figure out who to block and, you know, they get it blocked?

Here's the play in Action: (sorry, had the wrong timestamp at first)

 

[GT33]

@ilovetheoption Great work again. I was trying to send screenshots to my son because we were remarking during the game how many times half or more of the OL was blocking nobody. It was quite stunning to watch & I can't say I've ever seen anything like it in a very long time. I think maybe his high school football team many years ago. Do you suspect they are mishearing signals, on the wrong play (miss an audible) or flat out just don't understand their assignments?

 

[ilovetheoption]

If you're curious, the play they're running is just an old air raid pick play called "Mesh". My team ran that exact play, out of that exact formation in high school. (our TE's were off the line, actually, and we were in the pistol, but same thing)

 

[ilovetheoption]

@ilovetheoption Great work again. I was trying to send screenshots to my son because we were remarking during the game how many times half or more of the OL was blocking nobody. It was quite stunning to watch & I can't say I've ever seen anything like it in a very long time. I think maybe his high school football team many years ago. Do you suspect they are mishearing signals, on the wrong play (miss an audible) or flat out just don't understand their assignments?

Who knows?

TBH, my most honest answer is "it's not easy. It's actually super duper hard. If it was easy, we'd all have been scholarship offensive linemen at a P5 school".

Like, it's super easy for me to rewatch a play 4 times, and take the time to carefully frame it at the millisecond where one wrong step takes place. I'm not a 6'6, 320 pound man that has to be braced to withstand a bullrush and at the same time be moving backward to adjust to somebody flying at me from either direction, and at the same time deal with people I can't even see.

I don't have to change direction at that size, and maintain balance, all the while communicating with ANOTHER 2 guys that size without the benefit of time to discuss, with SUPER fast defenders, PLUS there's pressure, PLUS I'm exhausted, PLUS I'm at Georgia freaking Tech doing integral calculus on little sleep, PLUS I'm 19 and I'm trying to meet (or at least boink) the girl of my dreams.

These are super big guys, making lightning fast decisions under very difficult circumstances. It's why the guys who can consistently do it right make millions upon millions of dollars.

God forbid some A-hole broke down my workday, and saw how many typos I made while typing this post, and posted screenshots for a bunch of clowns on the internet, right?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

If you're curious, the play they're running is just an old air raid pick play called "Mesh". My team ran that exact play, out of that exact formation in high school. (our TE's were off the line, actually, and we were in the pistol, but same thing)

Wait... We got beat by a high school offense? The irony...

 

[Yaller Jacket]

Thanks, ILTOption. I like the 335 even more based on the confusion it can cause for an offensive line.

I now have a much better understanding of why it takes a long time for O linemen to develop. My takeaway is that the physical tools are just half of the job. The other big piece is learning to coordinate in split seconds with your linemates to make sure all rushers are accounted for.

 

[tsrich]

Thanks, ILTOption. I like the 335 even more based on the confusion it can cause for an offensive line.

I now have a much better understanding of why it takes a long time for O linemen to develop. My takeaway is that the physical tools are just half of the job. The other big piece is learning to coordinate in split seconds with your linemates to make sure all rushers are accounted for.

There's a reason the O-line positions are usually at the top in the Wonderlic scores

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

A couple of points to make here:

@ilovetheoption did not break down every play in the game. He is showcasing select ones we can learn from. Our OL is not inept, it is inexperienced and prone to make mistakes often enough to cause drives to break down.

The OL actually performed well enough to allow Sims and the O to put up some serious yardage against a pretty decent defensive effort by Pitt.

Your posts seem to indicate that you react in extremes. Life is rarely extreme, and the truth is usually in the middle. Yes, Sims and Gibbs will likely be gone by the time the OL fully develops. That was always going to be the case. The hope is that CGC continues to land players like Sims and Gibbs in the future and the groundwork this team lays is followed up on by their successors.

I hear you. Yeah, we gained yards and scored some points. But, as you said, we break down way too often which causes us to lose. That’s not me reacting to extremes. I wasn’t all giddy after KSU or UNC. I got blasted when I didn’t think our loss to Clemson was so wonderful. Our OLine is bad whether we played the older guys or the younger guys. The only games we win are when we get multiple turnovers to go our way. Have we won a game yet without a turnover advantage? This is Collins 3rd year with a bad OLine. That’s not me reacting in an extreme. That‘s stating a fact. It may be better than it was but we still haven’t won 2 games in a row. And our young guys haven’t shown anything when given the chance. This is becoming a pattern. I expect to beat Duke because I assume our players have some pride to be a little po’d after getting embarrassed at home for the 2nd time in 4 home games. I then expect UVA to manhandle us like Pitt did because that is who we are.

I believe the saying that says trust when someone shows you who they are. GT football is what we’ve seen. I hope Collins can turn it around and I’m still on his side because I like the recruiting and rah rah stuff. I’ll take him over a retread guy who we will probably hire next.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I hear you. Yeah, we gained yards and scored some points. But, as you said, we break down way too often which causes us to lose. That’s not me reacting to extremes. I wasn’t all giddy after KSU or UNC. I got blasted when I didn’t think our loss to Clemson was so wonderful. Our OLine is bad whether we played the older guys or the younger guys. The only games we win are when we get multiple turnovers to go our way. Have we won a game yet without a turnover advantage? This is Collins 3rd year with a bad OLine. That’s not me reacting in an extreme. That‘s stating a fact. It may be better than it was but we still haven’t won 2 games in a row. And our young guys haven’t shown anything when given the chance. This is becoming a pattern. I expect to beat Duke because I assume our players have some pride to be a little po’d after getting embarrassed at home for the 2nd time in 4 home games. I then expect UVA to manhandle us like Pitt did because that is who we are.

I believe the saying that says trust when someone shows you who they are. GT football is what we’ve seen. I hope Collins can turn it around and I’m still on his side because I like the recruiting and rah rah stuff. I’ll take him over a retread guy who we will probably hire next.

I get you, but everyone with decent football IQ I talk to says building an OL from the TO to where we are going is going to take a few years. I am impressed with the improvement so far, especially considering we were playing shorthanded last Saturday. If you were expecting to have most of the wrinkles ironed out by the beginning of year three, that was probably unreasonable on your part. With a couple more solid recruiting classes, and another year or two of development, I think our OL will be a strength, but there are no shortcuts, as we are seeing right now.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I get you, but everyone with decent football IQ I talk to says building an OL from the TO to where we are going is going to take a few years. I am impressed with the improvement so far, especially considering we were playing shorthanded last Saturday. If you were expecting to have most of the wrinkles ironed out by the beginning of year three, that was probably unreasonable on your part. With a couple more solid recruiting classes, and another year or two of development, I think our OL will be a strength, but there are no shortcuts, as we are seeing right now.

Our own fanbase said this yet they are still mystified by the inconsistency

 

[GT33]

I get you, but everyone with decent football IQ I talk to says building an OL from the TO to where we are going is going to take a few years. I am impressed with the improvement so far, especially considering we were playing shorthanded last Saturday. If you were expecting to have most of the wrinkles ironed out by the beginning of year three, that was probably unreasonable on your part. With a couple more solid recruiting classes, and another year or two of development, I think our OL will be a strength, but there are no shortcuts, as we are seeing right now.

We abandoned (really just significantly reduced because everyone does it) one blocking technique- cut blocks. Everyone makes this out like all we did was cut block 100% of the time. Not really, we just did it more than most.

Previously we still used drive blocking techniques, we zone blocked, angle blocked, we still had gap responsibilities, we scooped, we reached, we used bucket steps, chop steps, we pulled, we chipped, we kicked out, whatever you want to call them I think I covered many/most things in this list. The footwork techniques are not very different, if anything else we have even used more complex blocking schemes and more difficult footwork before the great transition. For example maybe we needed more practice at slide stepping or maybe for pass blocking there's nuances in handwork in gaining leverage not previous mastered, ok, but in 3 years if you cannot teach your OL to perform a handful of new techniques something is probably wrong.

I just don't get it. We went out and plucked from the portal guys that played in these positions for years. In my opinion, there's 1 basically doing well & the others are flops. We now have these large bodies, they appear not to be able to master the techniques, perhaps their bodies are not capable of executing basic techniques regularly. I could see if we had an occasional breakdown, but we're getting whipped damn near every single game except for Kennesaw where we had a unbelievable disparity in the size of our athletes.

I'm thinking we need 4 more years of good OL recruiting to get out of this mess, that means we're not going to see anything meaningful until year 7. I'm not that young anymore.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

We abandoned (really just significantly reduced because everyone does it) one blocking technique- cut blocks. Everyone makes this out like all we did was cut block 100% of the time. Not really, we just did it more than most.

Previously we still used drive blocking techniques, we zone blocked, angle blocked, we still had gap responsibilities, we scooped, we reached, we used bucket steps, chop steps, we pulled, we chipped, we kicked out, whatever you want to call them I think I covered many/most things in this list. The footwork techniques are not very different, if anything else we have even used more complex blocking schemes and more difficult footwork before the great transition. For example maybe we needed more practice at slide stepping or maybe for pass blocking there's nuances in handwork in gaining leverage not previous mastered, ok, but in 3 years if you cannot teach your OL to perform a handful of new techniques something is probably wrong.

I just don't get it. We went out and plucked from the portal guys that played in these positions for years. In my opinion, there's 1 basically doing well & the others are flops. We now have these large bodies, they appear not to be able to master the techniques, perhaps their bodies are not capable of executing basic techniques regularly. I could see if we had an occasional breakdown, but we're getting whipped damn near every single game except for Kennesaw where we had a unbelievable disparity in the size of our athletes.

I'm thinking we need 4 more years of good OL recruiting to get out of this mess, that means we're not going to see anything meaningful until year 7. I'm not that young anymore.

Again, almost everyone I know with a high football IQ said this was going to be the case. The OL was always going to be the most difficult part of this rebuild. Just because you don't understand why something happens doesn't mean it's not true. All the CFB experts, plenty of our former players, all the HS coaches I have spoken to, have, almost without exception, said the OL was going to be 4-5 year rebuild at best. The transfer portal has helped us out in keeping class separation while adding the right body types to the line to help develop the young players. It is not, however, a great source of rebuilding an OL from scratch. We've seen progress, and we will see more next year, but next year is the earliest I would expect to see any significant gains, and most likely 2023. I know this isn't what everyone wants to hear, but it's reality.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I get you, but everyone with decent football IQ I talk to says building an OL from the TO to where we are going is going to take a few years. I am impressed with the improvement so far, especially considering we were playing shorthanded last Saturday. If you were expecting to have most of the wrinkles ironed out by the beginning of year three, that was probably unreasonable on your part. With a couple more solid recruiting classes, and another year or two of development, I think our OL will be a strength, but there are no shortcuts, as we are seeing right now.

I know it takes time, but at some point how long is long enough? 5 years? 6 years? What happens when all these guys on the OLine are gone and we still can’t block? Why are we playing portal guys if it takes so long for the young guys to ready? We played Sims all of last year to get him reps. What good is it doing these young OlIne to sit on the bench? I know you’ll say they’re learning in practice. What are they learning from the starters? How not to do it? We are in year 3 and we were pushed around by NIU. Then Clemson’s defense made us look like a junior high team especially in the red zone where the OLine becomes even more important. Pitt held our RB’s to negative yardage yet we talk about the empty yards thru the air they gladly gave up. UVA, VT, ND, BC, and UGA are going to dominate our OLine because those coaches have average brains like Pittsburgh coaches.

I know it takes and I gladly watched years 1 and 2 go by and defended this staff all along. And I’m still on their side, but their are no excuses to be given anymore. The product we see on Saturdays is what they produced. No one else. And what we’ve seen as been abysmal. I shudder to think about the KSU game without them gifting us turnovers.