What GT does - Pass Blocking

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
5,417
I know it takes time, but at some point how long is long enough? 5 years? 6 years? What happens when all these guys on the OLine are gone and we still can’t block? Why are we playing portal guys if it takes so long for the young guys to ready? We played Sims all of last year to get him reps. What good is it doing these young OlIne to sit on the bench? I know you’ll say they’re learning in practice. What are they learning from the starters? How not to do it? We are in year 3 and we were pushed around by NIU. Then Clemson’s defense made us look like a junior high team especially in the red zone where the OLine becomes even more important. Pitt held our RB’s to negative yardage yet we talk about the empty yards thru the air they gladly gave up. UVA, VT, ND, BC, and UGA are going to dominate our OLine because those coaches have average brains like Pittsburgh coaches.

I know it takes and I gladly watched years 1 and 2 go by and defended this staff all along. And I’m still on their side, but their are no excuses to be given anymore. The product we see on Saturdays is what they produced. No one else. And what we’ve seen as been abysmal. I shudder to think about the KSU game without them gifting us turnovers.

A lot of hyperbole here
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,577
I know it takes time, but at some point how long is long enough? 5 years? 6 years? What happens when all these guys on the OLine are gone and we still can’t block? Why are we playing portal guys if it takes so long for the young guys to ready? We played Sims all of last year to get him reps. What good is it doing these young OlIne to sit on the bench? I know you’ll say they’re learning in practice. What are they learning from the starters? How not to do it? We are in year 3 and we were pushed around by NIU. Then Clemson’s defense made us look like a junior high team especially in the red zone where the OLine becomes even more important. Pitt held our RB’s to negative yardage yet we talk about the empty yards thru the air they gladly gave up. UVA, VT, ND, BC, and UGA are going to dominate our OLine because those coaches have average brains like Pittsburgh coaches.

I know it takes and I gladly watched years 1 and 2 go by and defended this staff all along. And I’m still on their side, but their are no excuses to be given anymore. The product we see on Saturdays is what they produced. No one else. And what we’ve seen as been abysmal. I shudder to think about the KSU game without them gifting us turnovers.
Well, Collins’ 5th year will be the first year any of his 2020 OL recruits will be seniors or RS juniors. One of those players is Jordan Williams (the highest rated OL from that class) who has started nearly every game since he’s been on campus. Michael Rankins is the only other OL from that class who was rated higher than a low 3*, so theoretically he will be the next on one up to make a big impact. Paula, Wing Green, and Cade Koots are the other from that class. Koots was basically a walk on, Green was taken on a flyer to hope he develops into as good of a player as his body says he might, and we saw how unimpressive a Young Paula was last week.

Weston Franklin and Jakiah Leftwich are the only HS OL from the 2021 class. They’ll be in their 3rd year at the start of Collins’ 5th year which is really the earliest you should expect any OL to start making an impact.

So excluding transfers, at the beginning of the 5th year we will have 4 upper class OL rated higher than the average CPJ OL recruit who will be in position to be impact players barring some sort of insane development out of Green, Koots, or Paula. Just looking at that we’ll definitely need some more transfers to fill out the depth needed to field even a decent OL. I literally don’t know what you’re expecting at this point. It honestly seems like this is the first time you’ve seen a college OL be built. Have you never heard even broadcasters talk about how important age and experience are on the OL? Why do you keep expecting freshmen and sophomores who aren’t even rated that high out of HS to come in and be even average players?
 

Augusta_Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,698
Location
Augusta, Georgia
I know it takes time, but at some point how long is long enough? 5 years? 6 years? What happens when all these guys on the OLine are gone and we still can’t block? Why are we playing portal guys if it takes so long for the young guys to ready? We played Sims all of last year to get him reps. What good is it doing these young OlIne to sit on the bench? I know you’ll say they’re learning in practice. What are they learning from the starters? How not to do it? We are in year 3 and we were pushed around by NIU. Then Clemson’s defense made us look like a junior high team especially in the red zone where the OLine becomes even more important. Pitt held our RB’s to negative yardage yet we talk about the empty yards thru the air they gladly gave up. UVA, VT, ND, BC, and UGA are going to dominate our OLine because those coaches have average brains like Pittsburgh coaches.

I know it takes and I gladly watched years 1 and 2 go by and defended this staff all along. And I’m still on their side, but their are no excuses to be given anymore. The product we see on Saturdays is what they produced. No one else. And what we’ve seen as been abysmal. I shudder to think about the KSU game without them gifting us turnovers.

5-6 years is enough, IMO, to begin expecting major improvement. 4-5 years would be absolute earliest. That's why I am continuously on record as saying that 2022 or 2023 is when we can finally start judging how well CGC is doing in his rebuild. Maybe you should ask actual football experts instead of a bunch of dissatisfied message board warriors. I did and got the answers I am sharing. If I based it off of what 80% of the Swarm thinks, then we should fire CGC tomorrow for not winning 10 games this year...
 

TromboneJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
495
Location
Seattle, WA
I know it takes time, but at some point how long is long enough? 5 years? 6 years? What happens when all these guys on the OLine are gone and we still can’t block? Why are we playing portal guys if it takes so long for the young guys to ready? We played Sims all of last year to get him reps. What good is it doing these young OlIne to sit on the bench? I know you’ll say they’re learning in practice. What are they learning from the starters? How not to do it? We are in year 3 and we were pushed around by NIU. Then Clemson’s defense made us look like a junior high team especially in the red zone where the OLine becomes even more important. Pitt held our RB’s to negative yardage yet we talk about the empty yards thru the air they gladly gave up. UVA, VT, ND, BC, and UGA are going to dominate our OLine because those coaches have average brains like Pittsburgh coaches.

I know it takes and I gladly watched years 1 and 2 go by and defended this staff all along. And I’m still on their side, but their are no excuses to be given anymore. The product we see on Saturdays is what they produced. No one else. And what we’ve seen as been abysmal. I shudder to think about the KSU game without them gifting us turnovers.
We didn’t make Sims the starting QB last year so that he could get game reps; we made him the starter because he gave us the best chance to win. Same reason we’re starting some of the more experienced transfers: because they give us the best chance to win. We’re trying to recruit and develop players for the future, but that doesn’t mean we’re not trying to win now. Just because you’ve already heard about an obstacle doesn’t mean it magically goes away. I’m tired of the “He already said that! Why is it still a problem?” attitude. Some issues don’t get solved overnight. Some issues take years to solve. If we could get a bunch of 5 star recruits out of high school, these problems would probably go away faster, but that’s not going to happen. I’m as frustrated as anyone about our losses this year, all of which I think could have been wins. But I see a lot of improvement over how we looked the past two seasons. We’re not where we need to be to consistently win, but that doesn’t mean we won’t get there.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
Ok. Y’all are just being funny now. So we shouldn’t expect to win anything for 4-5 years? Ok, I‘m patient and a GT man so I’ll be here. So the rest of this year and next year are just more scrimmage games? No problem. I’m the one who called seasons 1 and 2 scrimmages and got blasted. I‘m sorry I actually believed what our Head Coach was telling us heading into this season about winning and competing. That’s on me believing him. I’m well past that point now. Losing to NIU and losing by 30 plus to Pittsburgh is to be expected and part of the plan. Ok. I’m on board. Let’s see what our fanbase says when our next home game is sparsely attended and the UGA game is redder than the seats at MBS I know it takes time to win, but it shouldn’t take 4-5 years not to lose by 30 to Pitt.
 

TromboneJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
495
Location
Seattle, WA
Ok. Y’all are just being funny now. So we shouldn’t expect to win anything for 4-5 years? Ok, I‘m patient and a GT man so I’ll be here. So the rest of this year and next year are just more scrimmage games? No problem. I’m the one who called seasons 1 and 2 scrimmages and got blasted. I‘m sorry I actually believed what our Head Coach was telling us heading into this season about winning and competing. That’s on me believing him. I’m well past that point now. Losing to NIU and losing by 30 plus to Pittsburgh is to be expected and part of the plan. Ok. I’m on board. Let’s see what our fanbase says when our next home game is sparsely attended and the UGA game is redder than the seats at MBS I know it takes time to win, but it shouldn’t take 4-5 years not to lose by 30 to Pitt.
I hope you’re not carrying matches around that army of straw men.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,577
Ok. Y’all are just being funny now. So we shouldn’t expect to win anything for 4-5 years? Ok, I‘m patient and a GT man so I’ll be here. So the rest of this year and next year are just more scrimmage games? No problem. I’m the one who called seasons 1 and 2 scrimmages and got blasted. I‘m sorry I actually believed what our Head Coach was telling us heading into this season about winning and competing. That’s on me believing him. I’m well past that point now. Losing to NIU and losing by 30 plus to Pittsburgh is to be expected and part of the plan. Ok. I’m on board. Let’s see what our fanbase says when our next home game is sparsely attended and the UGA game is redder than the seats at MBS I know it takes time to win, but it shouldn’t take 4-5 years not to lose by 30 to Pitt.
You have now completely moved the goalposts from your original argument. And because you’ve been so wishy-washy with your posts, nobody even knows what your POV or expectations are anymore. All of this started because you suggested freshmen and sophomores should be playing on the OL, and after numerous posts explaining why that’s not plausible you resorted to this.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,879
You have now completely moved the goalposts from your original argument. And because you’ve been so wishy-washy with your posts, nobody even knows what your POV or expectations are anymore. All of this started because you suggested freshmen and sophomores should be playing on the OL, and after numerous posts explaining why that’s not plausible you resorted to this.
The current #1 team in the country in total offense has a RS FR and a true Sophomore starting on their OL, along with three other underclassmen in the two deep, including a true freshman. Heck, they have a RS freshman at QB and a true freshman at RB as well. Somehow they are getting all of those young guys to play well, so we know it actually is plausible.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,577
The current #1 team in the country in total offense has a RS FR and a true Sophomore starting on their OL, along with three other underclassmen in the two deep, including a true freshman. Heck, they have a RS freshman at QB and a true freshman at RB as well. Somehow they are getting all of those young guys to play well, so we know it actually is plausible.
You are talking about Ohio State there. Do you honestly think we have athletes even comparable to them? Not to mention OSU has seemingly taken a step back this year which doesn’t play into your argument at all. But since you brought it up:
  • Paris Johnson Jr. (the true sophomore) was the #9 national recruit and the #1 OT in the 2020 class
  • Like Wypler (the RS freshman) was the #108 national recruit and the #2 OC in the 2020 class
  • Enokk Vimahi (a RS SO in the 2 deep) was the #124 national recruit and the #7 G in the 2019 class
  • Donovan Jackson (a true FR in the 2 deep) was the #19 national recruit and the #1 OL in the 2021 class
  • Josh Fryar (a RS SO in the 2 deep) was #510 national and the #28 G in the 2020 class
Just for reference, Jahmyr Gibbs is the highest rated player we’ve had signed or committed since Collins took over, and he came in at #76 nationally.
Michael Rankins is our highest rated OL that is not a true FR and he was #537 nationally and the #43 OT.
  • Jordan Williams was #561 nationally and #44 OT
  • Paula Vaipulu was #778 nationally and #18 C
  • Wing Green #952 nationally and #76 OT
  • Weston Franklin (true freshman) was #490 nationally
  • Jakiah Leftwich was #795 nationally

That means Ohio State has 5 underclass OL rated higher than any of Tech’s underclass OL. So yeah, it can be done with underclassmen, as long as they’re some of the best players in the country. Which is something I alluded to in an earlier post:
Underclassmen who start or even play significant snaps on the OL for any team are anomalies. They are either filling in for injuries, or they are legitimately one of the best players in the country at their position. Or a worst case scenario is the upperclassmen ahead of them are underdeveloped and lacking in talent and skill.
And for even more reference, the last OL Tech signed that was even rated nationally before the 2020 class was Parker Braun, who was ranked #442 all the way back in 2016.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,835
You are talking about Ohio State there. Do you honestly think we have athletes even comparable to them? Not to mention OSU has seemingly taken a step back this year which doesn’t play into your argument at all. But since you brought it up:
  • Paris Johnson Jr. (the true sophomore) was the #9 national recruit and the #1 OT in the 2020 class
  • Like Wypler (the RS freshman) was the #108 national recruit and the #2 OC in the 2020 class
  • Enokk Vimahi (a RS SO in the 2 deep) was the #124 national recruit and the #7 G in the 2019 class
  • Donovan Jackson (a true FR in the 2 deep) was the #19 national recruit and the #1 OL in the 2021 class
  • Josh Fryar (a RS SO in the 2 deep) was #510 national and the #28 G in the 2020 class
Just for reference, Jahmyr Gibbs is the highest rated player we’ve had signed or committed since Collins took over, and he came in at #76 nationally.
Michael Rankins is our highest rated OL that is not a true FR and he was #537 nationally and the #43 OT.
  • Jordan Williams was #561 nationally and #44 OT
  • Paula Vaipulu was #778 nationally and #18 C
  • Wing Green #952 nationally and #76 OT
  • Weston Franklin (true freshman) was #490 nationally
  • Jakiah Leftwich was #795 nationally

That means Ohio State has 5 underclass OL rated higher than any of Tech’s underclass OL. So yeah, it can be done with underclassmen, as long as they’re some of the best players in the country. Which is something I alluded to in an earlier post:

And for even more reference, the last OL Tech signed that was even rated nationally before the 2020 class was Parker Braun, who was ranked #442 all the way back in 2016.
I seem to remember Rankins leaving. Did he come back?
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,308
Location
Marietta, GA
We abandoned (really just significantly reduced because everyone does it) one blocking technique- cut blocks. Everyone makes this out like all we did was cut block 100% of the time. Not really, we just did it more than most.

Previously we still used drive blocking techniques, we zone blocked, angle blocked, we still had gap responsibilities, we scooped, we reached, we used bucket steps, chop steps, we pulled, we chipped, we kicked out, whatever you want to call them I think I covered many/most things in this list. The footwork techniques are not very different, if anything else we have even used more complex blocking schemes and more difficult footwork before the great transition. For example maybe we needed more practice at slide stepping or maybe for pass blocking there's nuances in handwork in gaining leverage not previous mastered, ok, but in 3 years if you cannot teach your OL to perform a handful of new techniques something is probably wrong.

I just don't get it. We went out and plucked from the portal guys that played in these positions for years. In my opinion, there's 1 basically doing well & the others are flops. We now have these large bodies, they appear not to be able to master the techniques, perhaps their bodies are not capable of executing basic techniques regularly. I could see if we had an occasional breakdown, but we're getting whipped damn near every single game except for Kennesaw where we had a unbelievable disparity in the size of our athletes.

I'm thinking we need 4 more years of good OL recruiting to get out of this mess, that means we're not going to see anything meaningful until year 7. I'm not that young anymore.

I want 40-50 years of great O and D line recruiting so that I can live out my life with GT being a Top 25 team year and and year our with sprinkles of Playoff and some Championships that go beyond my life so my adult kids get to enjoy too!
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
You have now completely moved the goalposts from your original argument. And because you’ve been so wishy-washy with your posts, nobody even knows what your POV or expectations are anymore. All of this started because you suggested freshmen and sophomores should be playing on the OL, and after numerous posts explaining why that’s not plausible you resorted to this.
I didn’t know my POV mattered. This is just a message board about a sport that isn’t life or death. Here’s my POV. I loved the Collins hire. I’m rooting for him. I have enjoyed watching the rebuild and I know it’s not complete. Seasons 1 and 2 were scrimmage games. But this off season Collins himself made it a point to say that this season was about taking a step forward and competing. I believed him. We’ve been competitive in 1 game out of 4 (no I’m not counting KSU). So either Collins has no clue how to evaluate his team or he can’t coach them. Collins has all the time in the world from my perspective to get it right because unfortunately for me I can’t break up with GT. They are my team until I’m dead so I’ll be here whether we go undefeated or win 2-3 games.

Regarding the OLine specifically I just have zero faith in our coaches. Why? We have seen very little reason to trust them. And we will be losing several starters after this year. If the young guys can’t beat them out now what does that say. Apparently, several of the young guys are ATL this week and may get some action. Why? Why this week and not against NIU? Collins starting to play the young guys now basically is his admission that he should have played them from the jump. It shouldn’t take 5-6 years not to lose to an unranked team at home by over 30. I expect to beat Duke because that’s our pattern.

Like I mentioned, I like Collins but at some point whether I like him or not doesn’t matter. He has to show he can coach. Two and a half years in and we are still asking that question.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,879
You are talking about Ohio State there. Do you honestly think we have athletes even comparable to them? Not to mention OSU has seemingly taken a step back this year which doesn’t play into your argument at all. But since you brought it up:
  • Paris Johnson Jr. (the true sophomore) was the #9 national recruit and the #1 OT in the 2020 class
  • Like Wypler (the RS freshman) was the #108 national recruit and the #2 OC in the 2020 class
  • Enokk Vimahi (a RS SO in the 2 deep) was the #124 national recruit and the #7 G in the 2019 class
  • Donovan Jackson (a true FR in the 2 deep) was the #19 national recruit and the #1 OL in the 2021 class
  • Josh Fryar (a RS SO in the 2 deep) was #510 national and the #28 G in the 2020 class
Just for reference, Jahmyr Gibbs is the highest rated player we’ve had signed or committed since Collins took over, and he came in at #76 nationally.
Michael Rankins is our highest rated OL that is not a true FR and he was #537 nationally and the #43 OT.
  • Jordan Williams was #561 nationally and #44 OT
  • Paula Vaipulu was #778 nationally and #18 C
  • Wing Green #952 nationally and #76 OT
  • Weston Franklin (true freshman) was #490 nationally
  • Jakiah Leftwich was #795 nationally

That means Ohio State has 5 underclass OL rated higher than any of Tech’s underclass OL. So yeah, it can be done with underclassmen, as long as they’re some of the best players in the country. Which is something I alluded to in an earlier post:

And for even more reference, the last OL Tech signed that was even rated nationally before the 2020 class was Parker Braun, who was ranked #442 all the way back in 2016.
I actually agree with all of this. Young guys can contribute as long as they are talented. Which means like at every position, there is some combination of talent level and experience that leads to contribution. Therefore we didn't recruit guys talented enough to get on the field at this point, even with a pretty bare cupboard at the position. That is as much, if not more of a problem then just saying we are young. We have recruited pretty poorly on the OL and we have tried to patch that with transfers that haven't really worked out. Personally, I don't think the transfers should be quite as bad as they have been, leading back to the quality of coaching discussion but their are differing opinions on that. Needless to say, we need to recruit substantially better on the OL.
 

Jacket05

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
385
I didn’t know my POV mattered. This is just a message board about a sport that isn’t life or death. Here’s my POV. I loved the Collins hire. I’m rooting for him. I have enjoyed watching the rebuild and I know it’s not complete. Seasons 1 and 2 were scrimmage games. But this off season Collins himself made it a point to say that this season was about taking a step forward and competing. I believed him. We’ve been competitive in 1 game out of 4 (no I’m not counting KSU). So either Collins has no clue how to evaluate his team or he can’t coach them. Collins has all the time in the world from my perspective to get it right because unfortunately for me I can’t break up with GT. They are my team until I’m dead so I’ll be here whether we go undefeated or win 2-3 games.

Regarding the OLine specifically I just have zero faith in our coaches. Why? We have seen very little reason to trust them. And we will be losing several starters after this year. If the young guys can’t beat them out now what does that say. Apparently, several of the young guys are ATL this week and may get some action. Why? Why this week and not against NIU? Collins starting to play the young guys now basically is his admission that he should have played them from the jump. It shouldn’t take 5-6 years not to lose to an unranked team at home by over 30. I expect to beat Duke because that’s our pattern.

Like I mentioned, I like Collins but at some point whether I like him or not doesn’t matter. He has to show he can coach. Two and a half years in and we are still asking that question.
I don't fully agree but I understand you POV. However to say "We’ve been competitive in 1 game out of 4" is not accurate. We were competitive in all but the Pitt game.

The Clemson game was a one score game and we had 2 opportunities to tie the game. I understand Clemson is down this year but they are still a strong program with immensely talented players.

The NIU game was a 1 point game and the 2pt conversion that put them over the top should never have counted. I agree that we should be expected to beat them handedly but it was a "competitive" game.
 

jacket_fan

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
623
Location
Milton, Georgia
Looks like @ilovetheoption diagramed how poorly the oline played against Pitt. One faction of this board is wondering why the oline played so poorly. The other faction is explaining why they played so poorly.

I am having a hard time going with the apologists. I will agree that a seasoned oline is an advantage. I do not agree that it takes 5-6 years to make it happen. Bobby Ross made it happen. Other programs did not take 5-6 years to make it happen.

I do not have the insight to know how the offensive line graded out in each of the games this season. Or any previous season. Maybe someone here does. And if so please enlighten us pessimists. Therefore, cannot offer documented improvement (or not) over the past 3 years. But to my eyes there has not been any significant change. Sims/Yates are under constant pressure. Short yardage plays are blown up (red zone problems).

I hope we see the oline improve against Duke and for the rest of the year. That will give hope for the future.
 

Yaller Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
879
This week Duke has watched game film of exactly how Pitt was able to get a man in front of our rushers practically every passing down. (I should add that their qb made his situation better by quick moves on the rare occasion when someone broke through.) Thacker and Collins have film showing exactly how they did it. Hopefully, our coaches will add some wrinkles this week.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,982
This week Duke has watched game film of exactly how Pitt was able to get a man in front of our rushers practically every passing down. (I should add that their qb made his situation better by quick moves on the rare occasion when someone broke through.) Thacker and Collins have film showing exactly how they did it. Hopefully, our coaches will add some wrinkles this week.
It’s not like UNC and Clemson didn’t stunt too. That wasn’t a revolutionary scheme that Pitt ran.
 
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