What can we learn from Army vs Navy?

[Yaller Jacket]

When watching this game, I couldn't help but think of the often discussed topic on the boards of what is the impact of lots of preparation time by our opponents? No defense could be as thoroughly familiar with the TO as these two teams. They have whole seasons of preparation time.

It seems to me no matter how well you know what might happen on a play, it often comes down to individual matchups. Can the quick, shifty quarterback slip by the sure tackling safety or linebacker, or does the sure tackler make the tackle? Does the blocker get in front of his man, or does the defender get past him in time to make the play? Does the hard running B back bull his way for yards after contact, or does the tackler take him down cleanly? And so on.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The option is no gimmick because you still have to win your individual matchups. If you don't make blocks (or get off blocks on D) you won't be successful. You have to be able to move the ball when the D is playing honest, then burn 'em when "cheat". If you can't move the chains when the D is honest, it's gonna be very tough sledding.

 

[Boomergump]

ARMY blocked the crap out of NAVY up front. That is what I learned.

 

[MidtownJacket]

The option is no gimmick because you still have to win your individual matchups. If you don't make blocks (or get off blocks on D) you won't be successful. You have to be able to move the ball when the D is playing honest, then burn 'em when "cheat". If you can't move the chains when the D is honest, it's gonna be very tough sledding.

You know, for years it has bothered me when people call the 3O a gimmick based offence, I think you just put it into clear wording for why. Thanks for that

 

[Coloradojacket]

For the Army Navy Game.
1. I found it interesting that both teams actually ran plays from non flex bone formations. I guess they were both trying to throw wrinkles at each other.
2. Navy was more talented but losing the starting quarterback and one of their A backs was a factor. Also they had just played a rough game with Temple.

As for the Flex bone offense. This notion that it can be figured out always amuses me. Don't you think people have figured out the screen pass, the off tackle, the bubble screen. All football comes down to execution. Why the flexbone though is different is that it is an option offense that comes at you a lot faster than say the pistol or the read option. The running backs are closer to the line. Also if you really notice, we run the triple maybe 10% of our plays. We have straight B gives, counter option, rocket toss, b-toss, Speed option to the A back, speed option to the B back. The other factor is the huge spread our lineman take. It creates gaps.

 

[Sideways]

When watching this game, I couldn't help but think of the often discussed topic on the boards of what is the impact of lots of preparation time by our opponents? No defense could be as thoroughly familiar with the TO as these two teams. They have whole seasons of preparation time.

It seems to me no matter how well you know what might happen on a play, it often comes down to individual matchups. Can the quick, shifty quarterback slip by the sure tackling safety or linebacker, or does the sure tackler make the tackle? Does the blocker get in front of his man, or does the defender get past him in time to make the play? Does the hard running B back bull his way for yards after contact, or does the tackler take him down cleanly? And so on.

There are two factors that are sometimes overlooked when a defense is facing an option team. The dive with the Bback happens much faster than can be simulated in practice. As the game goes on it becomes harder for defensive tackles and linebackers to close on the dive play. They just don't quite get there like they did earlier in the game as fatigue becomes a factor. Secondly, the "bone" is absolute hell on corners and outside linebackers who are constantly being cut blocked by some SOB that often appears out of nowhere. When I was in high school in the early 1970s the wishbone and the veer in its various varieties were all the rage. It was not a pleasant time to be a corner back facing those offenses. It is truly unique in our time which makes preparation problematic to say the least.

 

[Foxyg]

Most offenses are designed to feature their better players to win one on one matchups. Our's is different in that we're trying to get a numbers advantage, so we're not as concerned with the one on one matchups and having an edge in personnel. It helps that you have good players who can do that, but our offense is one gigantic "if, then" tree, such that there's always an answer and the numbers will tell you where to go. No matter how the defense schemes it, there should be a numbers advantage somewhere if we're blocking it and reading it right.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Warms my heart to see both teams in bowls. Special kudos to CJM....I didn't think he'd get Army there that quick.

 

[danny daniel]

Its hard to win with a third string inexperienced QB running a complicated O, especially if your D cannot get off the field and give your O extra possessions.

 

[Jacketman1]

I learned that the Army vs Navy rivalry is arguably the best rivalry in CFB. COFH is straight up hate, but Army-Navy is so much different. They want to beat each other so badly, but at the end of the game, win or lose, they're on the same team. Watching that game on Saturday warmed my heart.

 

[takethepoints]

Most offenses are designed to feature their better players to win one on one matchups. Our's is different in that we're trying to get a numbers advantage, so we're not as concerned with the one on one matchups and having an edge in personnel. It helps that you have good players who can do that, but our offense is one gigantic "if, then" tree, such that there's always an answer and the numbers will tell you where to go. No matter how the defense schemes it, there should be a numbers advantage somewhere if we're blocking it and reading it right.

Yep. That's the difference.

In our O, if the play is executed correctly, it should be a long gain every time (except, perhaps, a straight dive). This is something that mystifies the fan bases at other schools. I remember a post here where one of ours was talking about how he was chuckling at getting to 3rd and 3 while opposing fans thought the world had just come to an end for us.

I did notice one thing in the game that I thought was different, however, and I wonder if we'll see it in our games in future. A few times Army ran what was essentially a straight T HB dive to the run side. The QB made the fake to the BB and began the sequence like it was going to be a toss or a TO. But instead of the play side AB going out to block, the QB took another step and gave him the ball off tackle on the play side, just like the old straight T or wishbone play of the same type. The play hit as fast as a BB dive and worked pretty well. I thought it was a good way to cross up a flowing D once you got them used to cheating to the play side. Very cute.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I ran the CPJ offense for three years as the OC for my son's youth league team. I designed a play that I wish Tech would run. It would go AB in motion for what would be a fake rocket toss. The B would take one step toward the play side and then cut behind the QB. The QB would give the ball to the BB and would then hit the outside gap. Always went for a long gain.

 

[gtpi]

I ran the CPJ offense for three years as the OC for my son's youth league team. I designed a play that I wish Tech would run. It would go AB in motion for what would be a fake rocket toss. The B would take one step toward the play side and then cut behind the QB. The QB would give the ball to the BB and would then hit the outside gap. Always went for a long gain.

bama is looking for a new o coordinator. let me get you nicks cell phone number. heh

 

[Milwaukee]

What I took away from the game was a trick play that Navy attempted but didn't execute. Tight formation, WR reverse rocket toss. It was sweet, qb just ate it for some reason. WR and coaches on the sideline were furious that he didn't make the toss.

I'm guessing Paul saw it as well and I'm predicting that he calls the exact play during the bowl game, because it was 6 had the qb tossed it.

 

[Coloradojacket]

bama is looking for a new o coordinator. let me get you nicks cell phone number. heh

When your down on the goal line and your in the bone, you give the ball to Musso!!!

 

[1939hotmagic]

What I took away from the game:

Don't play your archrival when (1) said rival has three weeks off before it plays you, and (2) your game against your archrival is your eighth consecutive game without a bye week. Also, don't lose your record-setting bull of a QB to injury when playing for a conference title the week before you play your archrival.

Yeah, that pretty much covers it.

It took a perfect storm of variables, all against Navy, and yet Army still managed to almost lose the game. That said, the rivalry certainly needed an Army victory for a change, and that's what happened.

 

[steebu]

I ran the CPJ offense for three years as the OC for my son's youth league team. I designed a play that I wish Tech would run. It would go AB in motion for what would be a fake rocket toss. The B would take one step toward the play side and then cut behind the QB. The QB would give the ball to the BB and would then hit the outside gap. Always went for a long gain.

I like the creativity, but my guess is that Clemson's and Virginia Tech's backside OLB and DE are a bit more disciplined and would probably make the tackle. Unless there was more to it than what you're describing? Pull the playside guard and have him kick the backside DE, backside tackle climbs to the LB?

Or maybe the other kids were biting so hard on the rocket action that the backside linebacker ran himself out of the play?

 

[4shotB]

I learned that the Army vs Navy rivalry is arguably the best rivalry in CFB.

I think I am going to add that game to my bucket list. Previously, I have always wanted to attend an OSU- Michigan game (maybe it was the idea of attending a huge, bitter big time game in cold weather?) but I think this one just moved to the top of the list. anyone interested in going next year?

 

[Boomergump]

I think I am going to add that game to my bucket list. Previously, I have always wanted to attend an OSU- Michigan game (maybe it was the idea of attending a huge, bitter big time game in cold weather?) but I think this one just moved to the top of the list. anyone interested in going next year?

If you EVER get a chance to go, you HAVE to take advantage of it. It is everything that is good about CFB.

 

[Boomergump]

What I took away from the game:

Don't play your archrival when (1) said rival has three weeks off before it plays you, and (2) your game against your archrival is your eighth consecutive game without a bye week. Also, don't lose your record-setting bull of a QB to injury when playing for a conference title the week before you play your archrival.

Yeah, that pretty much covers it.

It took a perfect storm of variables, all against Navy, and yet Army still managed to almost lose the game. That said, the rivalry certainly needed an Army victory for a change, and that's what happened.

Fatigue may have been a factor. It is reasonable that it would be so. Regardless, ARMY really gave it to NAVY up front. IMHO that was the story of the game. The subs starting didn't help either. The team that wins up front, usually comes out on top.