We need to jump ship

[orientalnc]

I am going to offer a socratic POV. What if we fans and alums are placing too high a value on athletic success at GT. Does it really matter in our lives if GT competes in the ACC or AAC? Would it significantly affect you if GT dropped football altogether?

 

[MWBATL]

I do not think GT played 8 SEC teams every year. Tulane was not an SEC member at that time and Arkansas and USCe had not yet joined.

Actually, Tulane was indeed an SEC member. They left the SEC right after GT did (not before). So, for Dodd's coaching career they were an SEC game. Just a bit of trivia for you...doesn't change your overall point (although Dodd usually played 7 SEC games each year).

 

[MWBATL]

I am going to offer a socratic POV. What if we fans and alums are placing too high a value on athletic success at GT. Does it really matter in our lives if GT competes in the ACC or AAC? Would it significantly affect you if GT dropped football altogether?

It would cripple all our other sports, imho. While football likely cannot compete in this landscape without a significant change in financial support, basketball and baseball can. But drop down to lower level leagues, and you will end any chance of those sports competing for national titles.

And yes, it would definitely affect my attitude towards GT. It would end any financial support I give (and I have given for over 40 consecutive years). It would place GT in a very bad place in my mind. There are certain universities that I do not have any respect for, in spite of their academic prowess. GT would then be added to that list.

 

[MWBATL]

i think half our fanbase thinks it’s cool dodd did what he did cause they hate the SEC but that really F’d us and is the main difference between being perennially ranked and being a roller coaster team the last 2 decades

I think you meant the last 5 decades....

 

[MWBATL]

I've never understood why vandy hasn't tried to become the duke of the sec. They could have been using all that football money to build a powerhouse basketball program. But they've never been more than just meh. Couple good years, but they've never had any deep runs in the tourney. I don't think they've won an sec title anytime recently. Getting rid of that sillyass arena would have to be the first step in really buying in.

Because elite academic types have always hated sports. This conflict goes back decades, is not recent, and has caused former football powers to become has-beens in sports (Sewanee, Tulane, Chicago, etc). A lot of the struggle was over money but at least some of it was over prestige and glory. Academicians feel THEY should be the ones glorified and resent the adulation and publicity that sports figures achieve. Sports types often feel the same way in reverse (hence the use of terms such as eggheads or nerds).

It's a human thing. It's simply the way people are. And always have been.

 

[orientalnc]

Because elite academic types have always hated sports. This conflict goes back decades, is not recent, and has caused former football powers to become has-beens in sports (Sewanee, Tulane, Chicago, etc). A lot of the struggle was over money but at least some of it was over prestige and glory. Academicians feel THEY should be the ones glorified and resent the adulation and publicity that sports figures achieve. Sports types often feel the same way in reverse (hence the use of terms such as eggheads or nerds).

It's a human thing. It's simply the way people are. And always have been.

This is the point where we disagree. I have some close friends who are "elite" academicians as well as sports fans. One who was provost at his last job before retiring. His wife was a cheerleader at an ACC school we lose to annually. He is an avid football fan. He also feels deeply that there is too much emphasis on football over academics.

The private colleges you listed could include others as well. Those schools gave up football (or downgraded its importance) for a variety of reasons. When I discuss football with my friend, his only "resentment" is that coaches are not paid as faculty memebers instead of contractors who can negotiate enormous amounts for their services. He also feels that any student who pays the hundreds of dollars in student activity fees should be able to attend games and have priority over everyone else irrespective of their donor level.

He is one of the eggheads. He has a PhD in two different fields and spent a long career in college administration. He is also a fan with whom I have regular side bets on games.

 

[MWBATL]

This is the point where we disagree. I have some close friends who are "elite" academicians as well as sports fans. One who was provost at his last job before retiring. His wife was a cheerleader at an ACC school we lose to annually. He is an avid football fan. He also feels deeply that there is too much emphasis on football over academics.

The private colleges you listed could include others as well. Those schools gave up football (or downgraded its importance) for a variety of reasons. When I discuss football with my friend, his only "resentment" is that coaches are not paid as faculty memebers instead of contractors who can negotiate enormous amounts for their services. He also feels that any student who pays the hundreds of dollars in student activity fees should be able to attend games and have priority over everyone else irrespective of their donor level.

He is one of the eggheads. He has a PhD in two different fields and spent a long career in college administration. He is also a fan with whom I have regular side bets on games.

I'm not sure we disagree. Your friend is a pretty good illustration of my point. I painted things as being pretty black and white, but in reality such things are far more often grey, like your friend. But if he got his way, and coaches were paid like faculty, and students got priority over big time donors, his football team would likely wind up in D3 and the stadium would be mostly empty (as they are for the schools that have chosen that path). His team certainly couldn't compete in the SEC or Big Ten with that approach.

He might be happy with that. I suspect a large number of other fans of his team would not be.

 

[g0lftime]

I worked with a former Duke player. He was very intelligent and really good at mathematics - actually he taught math at Alabama while getting a PhD in electrical engineering. He was totally frustrated by the Duke administration. He often said the academic side would contend that if they finished 5-5 they were competitive and that's all that was needed. They sure don't feel that way about basketball these days and he said this to me pre coach K days. Duke has put $ into FB after Roof. Stadium upgrades indoor practice facility and hired cutcliffe. None of that has worked but some improvement under cutcliffe who was just fired. Attendance is still bad. People kill for a ticket in Cameron. Winning is the key.

 

[MWBATL]

Winning is the key.

Always has been. Always will be.

 

[slugboy]

It would cripple all our other sports, imho. While football likely cannot compete in this landscape without a significant change in financial support, basketball and baseball can. But drop down to lower level leagues, and you will end any chance of those sports competing for national titles.

And yes, it would definitely affect my attitude towards GT. It would end any financial support I give (and I have given for over 40 consecutive years). It would place GT in a very bad place in my mind. There are certain universities that I do not have any respect for, in spite of their academic prowess. GT would then be added to that list.

Cal State Fullerton seems OK in Baseball. Does Xavier even have a football team? Gonzaga doesn't.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I am going to offer a socratic POV. What if we fans and alums are placing too high a value on athletic success at GT. Does it really matter in our lives if GT competes in the ACC or AAC? Would it significantly affect you if GT dropped football altogether?

The answer for me is complicated. Life is filled with 3 levels of “interests.” I might call these levels: ESSENTIALS, IMPORTANT THINGS, ENRICHMENTS.

It is that last level that, for me, all hobbies, past times, arts and sports fall into. And it is that last category that includes Tech sports. It also used to include for me all the major pro sports. I went from being a Braves season ticket buyer to not even watching them in the World Series. The reasons for my list of Enrichments dwindling over the years are many but one constant remains. They are choices. And psychological investment in them is a construct like cosplay or roll playing. I am well aware that one could argue that certain pastimes are essential but I’d rather not take that sidetrack away from my main point.

The dilemma for me is this. If my list of Enrichments dwindles to zero does it adversely impact any of the other two levels of interests. Enrichments are not Essentials but what if they impact Essentials and Important Things? Like the family gathers and the children say, “Mom, what’s wrong with dad? He seems flat, doesn’t get out anymore, has nothing of interest to contribute to conversations and I can’t remember the last time he read a book.”

Now what was removed from dad’s life were each unessential things, just matters of interest - Enrichments. But the sum total of removing those things impacted IMPORTANT and ESSENTIAL areas of life.

I don’t think removing Tech sports from my lists of interests would be the straw that broke the camel’s back but I would like to hang on to a few interests in life and Tech might as well be one of them.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This is the point where we disagree. I have some close friends who are "elite" academicians as well as sports fans. One who was provost at his last job before retiring. His wife was a cheerleader at an ACC school we lose to annually. He is an avid football fan. He also feels deeply that there is too much emphasis on football over academics.

The private colleges you listed could include others as well. Those schools gave up football (or downgraded its importance) for a variety of reasons. When I discuss football with my friend, his only "resentment" is that coaches are not paid as faculty memebers instead of contractors who can negotiate enormous amounts for their services. He also feels that any student who pays the hundreds of dollars in student activity fees should be able to attend games and have priority over everyone else irrespective of their donor level.

He is one of the eggheads. He has a PhD in two different fields and spent a long career in college administration. He is also a fan with whom I have regular side bets on games.

I wrote a piece for FTRS years ago about this. Schools were started by the church as academic institutions with sports to round out the individual. Eventually, as these schools evolved, most had to choose whether to focus on academia or sports. Schools like Southern Cal, Auburn and Vanderbilt dropped their religious /academic connection and others like Duke and Syracuse tried to split the difference. And we all know what direction Harvard and Princeton took. Emory University was specifically chartered with a provision against D1 sports in an attempt to maintain academic integrity. As many on here have heard, my family all went to Emory or Tech. Rooting for Tech in sports was considered a kind of righteous cause because we knew the athletes were no slouches in the classroom. Emory always saw that the danger in athletics was money. Money can cause an institution to change its entire mission and lose its soul.

I’m pulling for Tech to hold this difficult tension together.

 

[bobongo]

The answer for me is complicated. Life is filled with 3 levels of “interests.” I might call these levels: ESSENTIALS, IMPORTANT THINGS, ENRICHMENTS.

It is that last level that, for me, all hobbies, past times, arts and sports fall into. And it is that last category that includes Tech sports. It also used to include for me all the major pro sports. I went from being a Braves season ticket buyer to not even watching them in the World Series. The reasons for my list of Enrichments dwindling over the years are many but one constant remains. They are choices. And psychological investment in them is a construct like cosplay or roll playing. I am well aware that one could argue that certain pastimes are essential but I’d rather not take that sidetrack away from my main point.

The dilemma for me is this. If my list of Enrichments dwindles to zero does it adversely impact any of the other two levels of interests. Enrichments are not Essentials but what if they impact Essentials and Important Things? Like the family gathers and the children say, “Mom, what’s wrong with dad? He seems flat, doesn’t get out anymore, has nothing of interest to contribute to conversations and I can’t remember the last time he read a book.”

Now what was removed from dad’s life were each unessential things, just matters of interest - Enrichments. But the sum total of removing those things impacted IMPORTANT and ESSENTIAL areas of life.

I don’t think removing Tech sports from my lists of interests would be the straw that broke the camel’s back but I would like to hang on to a few interests in life and Tech might as well be one of them.

I really appreciate your posts, Northeast. You're good at categorizing and putting things in perspective.
I wonder how much a loss of interest in the enrichments could be a symptom of something deeper, instead of the other way around? My dad was like that in his later years. And it's too bad, because our mutual interest in sports was the way we connected. I think he just lost interest in life.
By the way, my attitude toward the Braves has been the same as yours - used to follow them closely, and now just don't give a flip. As far as sports go, Tech is just about my only remaining sports interest.

 

[GSOJacket]

O'Leary had it about right when he said that Tech folks want to be MIT during the week and FSU on weekends. Not an easy road, but probably more compatible with being in the ACC than the SEC.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The answer for me is complicated. Life is filled with 3 levels of “interests.” I might call these levels: ESSENTIALS, IMPORTANT THINGS, ENRICHMENTS.

It is that last level that, for me, all hobbies, past times, arts and sports fall into. And it is that last category that includes Tech sports. It also used to include for me all the major pro sports. I went from being a Braves season ticket buyer to not even watching them in the World Series. The reasons for my list of Enrichments dwindling over the years are many but one constant remains. They are choices. And psychological investment in them is a construct like cosplay or roll playing. I am well aware that one could argue that certain pastimes are essential but I’d rather not take that sidetrack away from my main point.

The dilemma for me is this. If my list of Enrichments dwindles to zero does it adversely impact any of the other two levels of interests. Enrichments are not Essentials but what if they impact Essentials and Important Things? Like the family gathers and the children say, “Mom, what’s wrong with dad? He seems flat, doesn’t get out anymore, has nothing of interest to contribute to conversations and I can’t remember the last time he read a book.”

Now what was removed from dad’s life were each unessential things, just matters of interest - Enrichments. But the sum total of removing those things impacted IMPORTANT and ESSENTIAL areas of life.

I don’t think removing Tech sports from my lists of interests would be the straw that broke the camel’s back but I would like to hang on to a few interests in life and Tech might as well be one of them.

This is interesting. As I've gotten older, my interests have narrowed. I am no longer more than a casual fan of most athletics. I am a GT fan (all sports) and will watch anything that's on. However, the Superbowl was the first pro football game I watched this year. I just don't have the interest I used to. All of the offenses are essentially the same, with minor variations, and I find that boring, Chan Gailey boring (who by the way I loved as a Coach, but not his offense). I've lost touch with the players and all the player movement. I can appreciate excellence in athletics, but the money has made it something I don't enjoy as much. Basketball, football, baseball, any of the pro sports are flat. College football and college basketball are both headed in the same direction for me.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

If y’all believe the landscape and contracts will be the same in 14 years from now as they are now you are crazy. Just look at the changes in the past 14 years. But keep believing we are a hostage.

 

[JacketOff]

If y’all believe the landscape and contracts will be the same in 14 years from now as they are now you are crazy. Just look at the changes in the past 14 years. But keep believing we are a hostage.

Keep believing some magic money man and his lawyers are going to be able to get the ACC to back away from the terms in their contracts simply because some other conference wants their teams. Wanna know why Texas and Oklahoma aren’t joining the SEC until 2025? Because that’s when their contract period for the Big 12 ends. You keep acting like the SEC is some deity figure that has the power to do whatever they want. If that was true, why don’t they already have 2 of the biggest brands in college sports in their conference? Why are they allowing their contracts to expire before bringing them in? Oh that’s right, because it’s extremely hard to fight against binding contract.

 

[JacketFan137]

This is interesting. As I've gotten older, my interests have narrowed. I am no longer more than a casual fan of most athletics. I am a GT fan (all sports) and will watch anything that's on. However, the Superbowl was the first pro football game I watched this year. I just don't have the interest I used to. All of the offenses are essentially the same, with minor variations, and I find that boring, Chan Gailey boring (who by the way I loved as a Coach, but not his offense). I've lost touch with the players and all the player movement. I can appreciate excellence in athletics, but the money has made it something I don't enjoy as much. Basketball, football, baseball, any of the pro sports are flat. College football and college basketball are both headed in the same direction for me.

highly recommend getting back into pro football. the offenses are a lot more diverse than you realize now and it has actually has parity.

 

[stech81]

Keep believing some magic money man and his lawyers are going to be able to get the ACC to back away from the terms in their contracts simply because some other conference wants their teams. Wanna know why Texas and Oklahoma aren’t joining the SEC until 2025? Because that’s when their contract period for the Big 12 ends. You keep acting like the SEC is some deity figure that has the power to do whatever they want. If that was true, why don’t they already have 2 of the biggest brands in college sports in their conference? Why are they allowing their contracts to expire before bringing them in? Oh that’s right, because it’s extremely hard to fight against binding contract.

I agree , with the money Texas has if their lawyers can't find a way to beat the Grant of Rights with all the money that school has I would have to think no one can.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I really appreciate your posts, Northeast. You're good at categorizing and putting things in perspective.
I wonder how much a loss of interest in the enrichments could be a symptom of something deeper, instead of the other way around? My dad was like that in his later years. And it's too bad, because our mutual interest in sports was the way we connected. I think he just lost interest in life.
By the way, my attitude toward the Braves has been the same as yours - used to follow them closely, and now just don't give a flip. As far as sports go, Tech is just about my only remaining sports interest.

Much I could say but you and I are on the same wave length.

I will add that another tension for me is that sports can be an enjoyable distraction but if the heaviness of real world issues settles down on you too deeply the distractions no longer work. And interests get hollowed out. Almost a million dead Americans (2 were colleagues of mine) deep societal divisions, increasing meanness in public life and our inability to come together to solve problems all make the usual distractions feel a little phony or forced.

I have a son-in-law who was in the marching band at uga. Huge dawg fan. I’ve been meaning to ask him if winning the national championship was as exciting as he hoped it would be, if it was the distraction that he needed from what has been a hard three years for him with work and family and all the distressing political turmoil. Sports used to bring people together but I just don’t see as much of that anymore. Could be my age.

I would also be curious the last time people on this site closely followed the Olympics. Been a long time for me.