Was our defense hamstrung in the past?

RickStromFan

Ramblin' Wreck
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If anyone has listened to Hometeam and Hamilton, Joe has pretty much said the same thing about the defense. Others players have expressed similar shortcomings but whenever I share that kind of stuff I’m a hater or whatever.

Any criticism of the previous regime was zero-tolerance at the GT fan site I used to go to. It was strange to not be able to point out obvious deficiencies and errors when we were getting blown out by Duke. I've not seen such a paranoid, defensive protection of a coaching staff before that. Gailey got deserved criticism but for unknown reasons, PJ was completely off-limits there.

Frankly, it was weird and cultish. I think some of what is seen on this site regarding PJ and "throwing shade" is the spring-back effect of fans who got tired of having criticism squelched and having PJ put on an untouchable pedestal for a decade. Just a guess.
 

GTRX7

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I feel like we have officially entered bizarro world with this thread. Am I reading this correctly? Is the allegation that our defenses under CPJ were no good because (1) he controlled his defensive coordinators and schemes too much and (2) that he forced them not to be aggressive? Someone please please please tell me I am reading that wrong and not understanding this thread.

For ten years, there was one consistent criticism of CPJ and it sure as heck wasn't that he was too controlling of his defense. It was, over and over and over, "CPJ doesn't care about the defense, he may be a good offensive coordinator, but we hired him as a head coach not offensive coordinator, and he needs to worry about the whole team."

As for facts the way I have always understood them:
(1) CPJ did not always get his first choice D coordinator while at Tech, largely due to funds.
(2) When CPJ did hire a D coordinator, he repeatedly said in the media that he let his D coordinators coach that side of the ball the way they wanted to and that he did not micromanage and did not get involved unless/until there were clear problems late in their tenure (like with Groh before he got let go). [[For example, " “I hire guys to coach defense and I’m going to treat them the way I want to be treated myself,” Johnson said. “Let me do what I do and at the end of it, you evaluate what happens, just like you do with anything. I’m not going to micromanage everything they do or second-guess every call. … I’ve got enough confidence in our guys on defense to let them try to coach.” LINK ]]
(3) If anything, CPJ's complaints were virtually always, and repeatedly, that his D coaches were not coaching aggressive enough. That they were not blitzing enough and not creating negative plays. Not the opposite. [[For example, "Anyone who has heard Johnson in recent seasons expound for any length of time about his vision for the Yellow Jackets’ defense knows his priority on creating negative plays, whether it’s turnovers or tackles for loss. “The biggest statistic is the scoring defense, but in my mind, I don’t think you can play defense in today’s game unless you’re getting negative plays,” Johnson said. “You’ve got to be able to get some sacks and tackles for loss.” LINK ]]

To sum up my opinion:
Is it fair to criticize CPJ for not being involved enough in the defense (i.e., he was head coach, not just offensive coordinator)? Sure.
Is it fair to criticize CPJ for being TOO involved or somehow instructing his D coordinators to not be aggressive? Not remotely.
 
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Any criticism of the previous regime was zero-tolerance at the GT fan site I used to go to. It was strange to not be able to point out obvious deficiencies and errors when we were getting blown out by Duke. I've not seen such a paranoid, defensive protection of a coaching staff before that. Gailey got deserved criticism but for unknown reasons, PJ was completely off-limits there.

Frankly, it was weird and cultish. I think some of what is seen on this site regarding PJ and "throwing shade" is the spring-back effect of fans who got tired of having criticism squelched and having PJ put on an untouchable pedestal for a decade. Just a guess.
Honest and honorable criticism is fine in my book. Hell, I was critical of him many times while he was at Tech. But when you see unsubstantiated accusations thrown his way and comments like I saw in FB that he should have been fired 5 years ago, that just pisses the hell out of me. And there have been several unsubstantiated accusations on this very thread. Either present substantiated facts, or state that you are just giving an opinion, and face the consequences.
 

RickStromFan

Ramblin' Wreck
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899
Honest and honorable criticism is fine in my book. Hell, I was critical of him many times while he was at Tech. But when you see unsubstantiated accusations thrown his way and comments like I saw in FB that he should have been fired 5 years ago, that just pisses the hell out of me. And there have been several unsubstantiated accusations on this very thread. Either present substantiated facts, or state that you are just giving an opinion, and face the consequences.

I agree but at the other site, even honest-and-honorable criticism was completely off-limits and would result in a banning.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
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7,043
To sum up my opinion:
Is it fair to criticize CPJ for not being involved enough in the defense (i.e., he was head coach, not just offensive coordinator)? Sure.
Is it fair to criticize CPJ for being TOO involved or somehow instructing his D coordinators to not be aggressive? Not remotely.

Well, it was always presumed by most that CPJ didn't get involved in the defense until a former coach said he told all his DCs that he wanted the defense to play soft.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
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I agree but at the other site, even honest-and-honorable criticism was completely off-limits and would result in a banning.

Oh, come on. What other site? I mean I believe you, but which one? Don't understand the secrecy. Did you sign an NDA?
 

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
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6,046
It’s only unsubstantiated bc i choose not put a name to a quote bc this is from the inside not something i conjured up.

Bottom Line:

It was CPJ orders to be passive, bend but don’t break on defense
&
Some of the flaws we saw on defense was due to us not doing the typical defensive drills a HS team would run that led us not to be able to read offensive keys, lack of awareness, & ball skills
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
It’s only unsubstantiated bc i choose not put a name to a quote bc this is from the inside not something i conjured up.

Bottom Line:

It was CPJ orders to be passive, bend but don’t break on defense
&
Some of the flaws we saw on defense was due to us not doing the typical defensive drills a HS team would run that led us not to be able to read offensive keys, lack of awareness, & ball skills

Did you consider the source for potential sour grapes etc? Hard to believe if true because it just makes no sense.
 

smokey_wasp

Helluva Engineer
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5,486
It’s only unsubstantiated bc i choose not put a name to a quote bc this is from the inside not something i conjured up.

Bottom Line:

It was CPJ orders to be passive, bend but don’t break on defense
&
Some of the flaws we saw on defense was due to us not doing the typical defensive drills a HS team would run that led us not to be able to read offensive keys, lack of awareness, & ball skills

That second part makes all the sense in the world. I think we all remarked that it looked that way a lot of times, like we hadn't practiced that stuff at all.

I don't have any reason to doubt the first part, either, mostly because you have zero reason to make it up and also because it makes sense if you figure CPJ's primary objective was shortening games and limiting opponent possessions.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
Create a lot of storylines:

Does being unique on 1 side of the ball benefit the TEAM?

Will the presence of having tackles pass setting increase our sacks due to reps in practice?

Were we talent or scheme deficient on defense?

Also....

How/why were Navy and Ga Southern also not similarly handicapped on D?

Is this why current Army and Navy teams aren’t similarly bad on D?

How did this remain undisclosed for 11 years and 4 DCs?.....
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
Here’s a fact I think:

Our defenses under CPJ looked soft, the stats seem to indicate they were soft, CPJ himself even remarked from time to time they were soft.

I’d say they were soft.

Who’s responsible for them being soft?
1) Head Coach
2) Defensive Coordinator and Staff
3) Players

I listed them in order of level of responsibility. Now it could be #3 was incapable of defending as #2 wanted so #1 got pissed or #2 couldn’t ever explain what #3 was supposed to be doing, but nothing absolves #1 of the ultimate responsibility for having less than desirable defenses.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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14,027
It’s only unsubstantiated bc i choose not put a name to a quote bc this is from the inside not something i conjured up.

Bottom Line:

It was CPJ orders to be passive, bend but don’t break on defense
&
Some of the flaws we saw on defense was due to us not doing the typical defensive drills a HS team would run that led us not to be able to read offensive keys, lack of awareness, & ball skills
So CPJ controlled defense practice drills?
 

swarmer

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
699
I agree but at the other site, even honest-and-honorable criticism was completely off-limits and would result in a banning.

And there is what, 15 posters still active on that site? The guys that own that joint pretty much destroyed it with their rules
 
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