Wake Forest - ACC Weekend #4

THWG

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GREAT SERIES WIN!!!! Phenomenal games back to back and the defense was great in both. Our rotation is legit and all 3 guys can shut down an opponent. I believe Grenkoski and Siegel both earned themselves some more playing time with their performances today as well.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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Baseball is so funny - it trolls me almost every weekend. 2-1 against anybody but the top is always a fair and reasonable goal. And we did that yet again. Have we won something like 16 of our last 17 series going back a couple years? But we lose game 1 again in bad fashion and I’m all like dammit all to hell. Not sure if I need to drink more or drink less.
 

GTNavyNuke

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Baseball is so funny - it trolls me almost every weekend. 2-1 against anybody but the top is always a fair and reasonable goal. And we did that yet again. Have we won something like 16 of our last 17 series going back a couple years? But we lose game 1 again in bad fashion and I’m all like dammit all to hell. Not sure if I need to drink more or drink less.

Need to do a controlled experiment. I always start drinking and then do acceleration or deceleration rates of intake. The better we do, the more I drink. The worse, the less. Seems to have the desired effect.

It won't show as much in the box score, but we had many really good hustle defensive plays today. Three foul ball outs come to mind. One ugly error, but y'all will forgive that one since it was on a Fr.

So glad that we won the series after giving away the game on Friday with bad baseball. We might have lost given how good their starting pitcher was but the defensive errors were embarrassing. Somehow it all seemed to turn around when Malloy made that diving catch to rob a double yesterday.

We only gave up 5 ER the entire weekend. Sure Wake isn't a great offensive team, but that is really good for any ACC series.

It's never as good as it seems or as bad. Duke next weekend. Just win Friday (for a change!) No mid-week.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

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Need to do a controlled experiment. I always start drinking and then do acceleration or deceleration rates of intake. The better we do, the more I drink. The worse, the less. Seems to have the desired effect.

It won't show as much in the box score, but we had many really good hustle defensive plays today. Three foul ball outs come to mind. One ugly error, but y'all will forgive that one since it was on a Fr.

So glad that we won the series after giving away the game on Friday with bad baseball. We might have lost given how good their starting pitcher was but the defensive errors were embarrassing. Somehow it all seemed to turn around when Malloy made that diving catch to rob a double yesterday.

We only gave up 5 ER the entire weekend. Sure Wake isn't a great offensive team, but that is really good for any ACC series.

It's never as good as it seems or as bad. Duke next weekend. Just win Friday (for a change!) No mid-week.

**** DUKE
 

GTNavyNuke

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GREAT SERIES WIN!!!! Phenomenal games back to back and the defense was great in both. Our rotation is legit and all 3 guys can shut down an opponent. I believe Grenkoski and Siegel both earned themselves some more playing time with their performances today as well.

Yup, giving players a chance let's us see who are gamers. Best outing by far for Siegel. Here's the stats after the game. Bad news is that Finley wasn't available this weekend. Don't know anything more than that. But Siegel definitely moved up - on limited appearances.
1616360717083.png

1616360385783.png


And Grenkoski moved up as well on very limited ABs (6). Hope to see more of what his bat can do. Jenkins looked good at 1st defensively but the BA is a concern. And so is Reid. Hope Colin is available for Duke.
1616360534932.png
 

MWBATL

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Baseball is so funny - it trolls me almost every weekend. 2-1 against anybody but the top is always a fair and reasonable goal. And we did that yet again. Have we won something like 16 of our last 17 series going back a couple years? But we lose game 1 again in bad fashion and I’m all like dammit all to hell. Not sure if I need to drink more or drink less.
You said this much better than I could have.

For the life of me I am not sure how we give up 18 runs to Pitt...or 7 in the 9th...and then go out and yield only 5 ER the entire next series. smdh
 

MWBATL

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You want to take our best starting pitcher, put him in the bullpen, and replace him with the guy with control/command issues you guys are complaining about?

What in the ****?
If you insist on bringing in a "closer" in close games in the 9th no matter how well the other pitchers are doing, you need someone who isn't going to blow the game. In that case,give me someone will reliably throw strikes (e.g., Archer).

Maxwell has great stuff, but as a starter he can work on things better (and we can recover from a poor outing better) than as a closer.

Arguably, the way Hall has been using the closer role, that guy pitches every Friday and Sunday (unless the game is out of reach) and maybe even in the midweek game if called for, while the starter pitches only once per week. Ergo, closer has chance to have much more impact.

Personally, I wouldn't move things around like that, but I also would not designate a "closer" the way Hall does. I would stick with the hot hand in a case where the guy has gotten 6 straight outs. Kinda like he did Sunday, because the "closer" wasn't available and we had a big lead. And the hot hand stayed hot.
 

GtBaseball3

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Great win!! Grenkoski played great and should earn more playing time. Has anyone heard anything about Jackson Finley? Heard he had arm tightness last weekend

Also, when will Maguis Grissom be available?
 

eokerholm

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Again, I would counter argue that they are playing very similar competition in these club? AAU? (I'm not sure which) competitions. Both of these kids played on teams loosely based in ATL (6 hours from here) but with other teammates who also came from various parts of the Southeast. Their teammates were all college (or pro) prospects. Their tournament games were played almost anywhere from Florida to Texas to New England. Air travel was essential. The expense, time and energy to compete were enormous and baseball was a full time job for them although they kept up with their schoolwork for the most part. They certainly weren't honor roll or valedictorian types.Their parents were wealthy and I don't understand how a child that was middle class or worse could have swung it.

I have seen D1 FB players as well and they don't have near the $ or time invested (travel) as these kids do although they too worked almost year round but without the actual reps, practices, hands on coaching or game experience.

I know there is a player or recruit's dad that is a member here and contributes but I don't recall who. I would love to hear his perspective on this topic
@4shotB I'm here but only had my phone and didn't have my glasses.

What is the question? Baseball vs Football (It's about reps and you get more reps in baseball than football). I forget who said it but doesn't it take 10,000 reps to get really good at something or something similar. Football is 1 game a week. Travel ball is 4-8 or more depending on the tournament or length.

High school ball is literally for reps and to get in shape for Summer ball. The errors and officiating at the high school are worse than you can imagine and the level of play (here in Austin) is abysmal. Now if we played locally in ATL, for Buford or something like that, different story, but pretty much around the country the level of play in HS is subpar and no where near what Travel Ball is in the ATL area and PG circuit. PBR is great in some parts of the country (NY/PA), but crappy in Texas and other parts. It might happen on a rare occasion and locally, but no one is getting recruited to college from HS only ball. The scouts are there because of what the kid did during travel ball.

Yes, the expense can be out there, but there are options for that and depending on where you live and where you play and the competition you have access to, it doesn't have to be that expensive.
Families host other kids or some orgs like Canes have their own Coach Buses that come to events and the players don't have to pay anything to play or travel. But you have to be damn good to get on those top teams.

We fly in or drive in from Texas to play with the best competition and the best defense. Playing on East Cobb Astros is pretty much like college caliber ball (or better) with actually higher ranked players in almost every position than the GT college team (think of a team of Paradas, DeLeos, JHMs, and a bullpen that puts GT's to shame). There aren't many teams like ECA or at that level. Others like Canes, Team Elite, Florida Burn and others, but to get to play with consistent competition is key. That's by ECA and Canes are top 2 teams out of 998 in the PG system. Also playing on a top tier national team gets you more exposure as there are 30 pro and college scouts there to look at your teammates and/or the team you're playing.

Is recruiting and playing really good travel ball expensive. Absofreakinglutely. The math and expense can be daunting. If you live in ATL, it is a tremendous blessing as the competition comes to you and you don't have to travel. LakePoint and ECB/Marietta are super close and only a 3 hour trip to Hoover or a flight to Jupiter/Ft Meyers or a 6 hr drive to Cary to play at Team USA. Then you have college camps and visits, etc. That adds up especially if you're wanting to get into a different region of the country. You have 5 official visits, so that's 5 FREE visits to a campus to talk to a program for 2 adults and 1 player. You can get recruited locally for pretty cheap. We wouldn't have to leave the state in order to play in Texas, OK, ARK or LA. Local club teams playing at events in Dallas or Houston is enough to get you seen and interest. Christian didn't want to play in Texas and wanted to explore East Coast. Way more college and talent density and exposure.

We flew to Vandy (Music City tourney and 5 day camp), Duke (3 day camp), UNC (2 day prospect camp), UVA (visit and 2 day prospect camp), Arkansas (1 day prospect), GT (visit) and drove downtown to Texas (local for prospect camp) and 2 hours over to Texas A&M (multiple events PBR or PG showcases) as well as the Grand Daddy of Ft Meyers and Jupiter with ECA. Christian turned down official visits to Stanford, Columbia, Army, Notre Dame and interest from over 40 schools.

Ft Meyers and Jupiter were both key events. Recruited exploded during and after both. Christian broke 91 at Ft Meyers and 92 at Jupiter the following week. Ft Meyers would have been more of an event, but a bunch of the boys got stomach bug Saturday and that kept Christian from playing Sunday but he had a great outing in Ft Meyers and was the appetizer for Jupiter the following weekend.
Throwing a perfect game as a HS Junior at Jupiter vs Seniors is what got the eye of most and where I met DBo & Jaffe watching the game.

That summer/fall ball (SO summer/JR fall) and trips was about $20,000 (probably more). A small investment (just like private pitching coach, strength/speed training, a $1200 radar gun, weight and special workout equipment and rack in the garage, not included) for his arm to get him exposure and into schools he otherwise wouldn't have a chance and to get out of state money to reduce tuition. UVA was going to be $132,000+ for 4 years, after 25%. That was going to hurt. GT and others came in with more affordable options. Unlike football, baseball isn't a full ride due to the BS 11.7. So money will play into college ball as well. I walked on at University of Tennessee in Knoxville for football (place kicker) and the extra point holder had a full ride..... Basketball, full rides.

Travel ball in HS is a requirement for all areas of the country that are NOT Atlanta. Playing and traveling the country at 9-14 is not. Yes we did it and Christian's team was #10 in the country, in Travel Ball Select and others. He has a wall and shelf full of $1.99 plastic and silly rings to commemorate & remember it all and the journey, but nothing happens college-wise as a travel baller until 8th-9th grade circuit.

Did that answer your question or give the perspective you were looking for? It is what you make it and there are options and choices. Each with benefits and costs associated.
 

4shotB

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@eokerholm - ^ thanks for this. It's a deeper dive into what I deemed the experience to be like based on talking to the two boys I taught.

Based on the your post which reenforced my observations, then my expectation is that there really shouldn't be a big transition to college ball. Somewhere in the thread someone alluded to our defensive lapses as being caused by youth. I certainly expect that to be the case in FB or to a lesser degree BB where a guy is playing for the first time where everyone is as good or better than he is, plus ususually older and stronger.

However, in baseball, the FR have seen this kind of talent by playing travel ball for years. thus, i would not expect errors on routine plays due to a transition. Am I way offbase in my thinking? Would love your perspective on this question. thanks for being an active and insightful member of this board.
 

GTNavyNuke

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Baseball is so funny - it trolls me almost every weekend. 2-1 against anybody but the top is always a fair and reasonable goal. And we did that yet again. Have we won something like 16 of our last 17 series going back a couple years? But we lose game 1 again in bad fashion and I’m all like dammit all to hell. Not sure if I need to drink more or drink less.

You said this much better than I could have.

For the life of me I am not sure how we give up 18 runs to Pitt...or 7 in the 9th...and then go out and yield only 5 ER the entire next series. smdh

If we weren't freaking out after 4 bad baseball games, it would mean we didn't care IMHO.

Let's put some context on this. One point is a point, two points are a line, three or more points require a fitting projection with implied variances. The games:
Pitt Friday game lost 9-11 and gave up 5 unearned runs
Pitt Saturday game won 5-3 and gave up 3 unearned runs
Pitt Friday game lost 12-18 and gave up 9 unearned runs
Wake Friday game lost 2-6 and gave up 3 unearned runs

Moreover, those were just the unearned runs from called errors. We weren't making basic defensive plays that should be made by an ACC caliber team.

Each error gives a free out and runs up the pitch count on our pitchers, and the error puts stress on the pitcher to hold the runners in place too.

Then all of a sudden, Malloy has a great play (immediately after an error) and we start making great plays all over the place which if not made would never have been called errors.

This team has real potential, but need all three legs (pitching, defense and hitting) to win against good teams.

Edit: For the year we have 28 errors. Given up 83 earned runs, and 106 total runs or 23 unearned runs.
 
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slugboy

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@4shotB I'm here but only had my phone and didn't have my glasses.

What is the question? Baseball vs Football (It's about reps and you get more reps in baseball than football). I forget who said it but doesn't it take 10,000 reps to get really good at something or something similar. Football is 1 game a week. Travel ball is 4-8 or more depending on the tournament or length.

The “10,000 hours of practice” number comes from research by an FSU professor (among others). Malcolm Gladwell misunderstood the research and wrote a book called “Outliers”, and the number got popular.
The research was on “intentional practice”, where to spend your learning effort, and what makes the difference in the top flight players who are all good. How you practice is much more important than how many hours you practice, but you have to practice enough. Gladwell ignored almost all the context and also missed some of the most important aspects of the research.
A much better book is The Sports Gene 🧬.

Thanks for your recap of your experiences.
 

eokerholm

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@eokerholm - ^ thanks for this. It's a deeper dive into what I deemed the experience to be like based on talking to the two boys I taught.
Based on the your post which reenforced my observations, then my expectation is that there really shouldn't be a big transition to college ball. Somewhere in the thread someone alluded to our defensive lapses as being caused by youth. I certainly expect that to be the case in FB or to a lesser degree BB where a guy is playing for the first time where everyone is as good or better than he is, plus ususually older and stronger.

However, in baseball, the FR have seen this kind of talent by playing travel ball for years. thus, i would not expect errors on routine plays due to a transition. Am I way offbase in my thinking? Would love your perspective on this question. thanks for being an active and insightful member of this board.

I would say that there is still a transition to college ball unless you're on the elite of elite teams. Basically playing for ECA is like playing for a D1 school at that kind of level. 5-8 or so guys are going to draft from that team. Everyone on the team is ranked Top to top 200 in the country and top of their state and position.

Not everyone gets a chance to play at that level, so 2.3% of ALL HS seniors go D1. So it's already elite, but like others have said, there is still a transition to the speed and pace compared to Travel ball, etc.

Yeah C played up and did well and was in the starting rotation as a Freshman and striking out JR and SR commits (like Brett Baty and others). But those were boys. College baseball is MEN with man-strength and completely a new level of specialization, skill, speed and POWER. I would argue there is still a definite transition for anyone, let alone my son, who is older and will be 19 in Sept, that comes in to pitch against 18-24 year olds (Gramps from Pitt is 24). I do think others, with more prep and experience can handle the experience faster/easier more than others.

Consider the local travel ball kid who hasn't seen D1 level play, pitching or defense... or the kid someone grabbed out of 8th or 9th grade before they played a HS or varsity game. A regional kid that did well at a PG event or showcase and got nabbed up. Going to be a huge adjustment.

Also the time commitment coupled with being a full time student, at college, away from home and on your own. HUGE adjustment.
 

4shotB

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@eokerholm - ^ thanks for this. It's a deeper dive into what I deemed the experience to be like based on talking to the two boys I taught.


I would say that there is still a transition to college ball unless you're on the elite of elite teams. Basically playing for ECA is like playing for a D1 school at that kind of level. 5-8 or so guys are going to draft from that team. Everyone on the team is ranked Top to top 200 in the country and top of their state and position.
as usual, I oversimplified things. I also got to thinking about this aspect (and it too may be wrong). In travel ball, the kids weren't all that interested in team wins and losses, mostly in individual performances. In college, there is now additional pressure that comes from playing where W's and L's mean something and you really don't want to let teammates or coaches down. That can tighten the nerves a bit.

I have seen more than a few athletes who could shine in scrimmages or practices or preseason games. But when it mattered, they froze up a bit. I went through it as a young man when I started playing tournament golf. That 3 foot putt that you would make 96% of the time in a friendly round wasn't nearly as easy when it was in tournament play. it took awhile for me to play enough to work through that issue. The only way to do that was by gaining experience in that environment.

again, many thanks for your insight. Most of us are trading opinions here. It means more (imo) from those who have been in the arena.
 
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