Wake Forest - ACC Weekend #4

[FredJacket]

Cant believe the same team who went 5-1 against NCSU and Louisville went 1-3 against Notre Dame and Wake Forest.

Lol... you need to hire a fact checker.

...but I get your point

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Last night the better team won.

1. Cusick was sick and had the game of his career. 6.0 IP and 0 ERA. Much better than this year's earlier game stats. And against a much better hitting team. He had an upper 90's FB and a wicked change up that was reportedly 40 mph slower than the FB. Most of all he had control with his stuff. 10 SO versus only 2 BB and no HBP. I thought we had good plate discipline overall and ran up counts, especially Luke, it was just that Cusick kept pounding the strike zone. If he really was touching 100 mph as Wiley said, Cusick has the highest velo in college baseball before this week. And to have control is more impressive.
2. Relieving pitching was ok and we could have done more with it. The 2 runs we scored were sacs. Two singles to start the inning, a wild pitch to advance and then two sacs. Not bad for that ONLY inning of 9 we scored in.
3. Errors - we had two more called last night. And there were other plays where we didn't get called for the error but were defensive plays that good D1 teams make. We gave up more unearned runs (3) than runs we scored.

I don't mind losing as much when we play good baseball and run into a pitcher having a career night. But the awful defense is going to have us as a mid level ACC team unless it gets fixed. And having lost 3 of the last 4 predominantly due to bad fielding, that isn't alarmist about the extent of the problem.

I really liked our basketball team this year since they played at or above their individual talent level. We haven't seen our baseball team play good baseball since NC State and 2 of the L'Ville games. Our baseball team has the talent but it just isn't happening. Shameful.

If I knew what made bad fielding or pitching contagious, I'd have a constructive recommendation on how to fix it. Until then, I fall back on what I was taught by ADM Rickover in the Nuclear Navy. Fire people till you find someone who can do the job. He fired like 4 people in one section in a year (they stayed in the organization but were demoted) until the problem got solved by a person he had previously fired.

Hope we start a long win streak today. Getting swept by Wake might happen. We are playing that bad IMHO.

 

[randerto]

We are just an inexperienced team right now. I was watching Florida's game Thursday and they kept going on and on about how young they are with 3 freshman starters. Well, we have 6 and really 8 that see significant time. This is the main reason why I didn't think we'd be hosting at the end of the year. We are just going to have a lot of ups and downs this year and be pretty inconsistent overall.

Simple explanation for yesteray's game. That Wake starting pitcher had his "A" stuff going - strongest starting pitching performance I've seen from any college starter this season. That was MLB-caliber stuff with FB hitting spots at upper 90's (at 100 pitches) and getting offspeed in for strikes. That dude will be 1st round material if he can repeat that kind of performance very much. He would have shut down any offense with that performance yesterday. Not to discount Hurter - he looked great too but was still outpitched... And yes, we've got significant defensive issues...

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Cant believe the same team who went 5-1 against NCSU and Louisville went 1-3 against Pitt and Wake Forest.

fify. Easy to confuse ND and Pitt this year. They are both playing well above their pre-season expectations.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Lol... you need to hire a fact checker.

...but I get your point

I just looked up our schedule again. What is wrong about what I posted?

Edit: Oh FFS. Wasted another 10 seconds of my life.

 

[FredJacket]

I just looked up our schedule again. What is wrong about what I posted?

Edit: Oh FFS. Wasted another 10 seconds of my life.

Don't go changing @bwelbo

 

[LibertyTurns]

If I knew what made bad fielding or pitching contagious, I'd have a constructive recommendation on how to fix it. Until then, I fall back on what I was taught by ADM Rickover in the Nuclear Navy. Fire people till you find someone who can do the job. He fired like 4 people in one section in a year (they stayed in the organization but were demoted) until the problem got solved by a person he had previously fired.

You mean Adm Dickover? What a tool, but nobody can argue with his results.

 

[4shotB]

Just curious on y'alls take on this. As a teacher, I have taught 2 kids very recently that had D1 baseball offers. My impression was that they played ball year round and that HS baseball was just a very small piece of the puzzle. The rest of the year they played on club or AAU teams and were facing teams of similar D1 caliber players. So,imo, both baseball and to a certain degree basketball players, come into college way more seasoned than their FB counterparts. As such, I wouldn't expect defensive lapses to be due to youth the way you expect FR FB players to struggle to make the transition. Am I oversimplifying things here? I'll hang up and listen off air.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

We are just an inexperienced team right now. I was watching Florida's game Thursday and they kept going on and on about how young they are with 3 freshman starters. Well, we have 6 and really 8 that see significant time. This is the main reason why I didn't think we'd be hosting at the end of the year. We are just going to have a lot of ups and downs this year and be pretty inconsistent overall.

Last night the errors were on one experienced player and one inexperienced one. For the year, most have been on inexperienced ones.

Pitching is similar where most of the innings thrown have been experienced players (at least some experience in 2020).

Batting is mostly Fr and that's not where our problem lies. It is our strength.

But put it all together and I can't explain why the sum of our parts is so much less than the sum of the whole. So I'll go with inexperience too. Whatever that means.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Don't go changing @bwelbo

I mean, I can hardly see without my glasses. But even taking a second look I STILL didn’t notice it. Stupid. LOL.

In fairness to me though, if you ignored literally everything, the two schools are quite similar.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

You mean Adm Dickover? What a tool, but nobody can argue with his results.

Yes, the beatings will continue until morale improves. I didn't say I liked him but he was effective in his younger years. Just stayed on too long IMHO.

Got the most out of his people at great cost to their and other people's personal lives.

His techniques would never work today, only in the 50's & 60's culture. So I have no idea how to fix what is going on.

 

[THWG]

Just curious on y'alls take on this. As a teacher, I have taught 2 kids very recently that had D1 baseball offers. My impression was that they played ball year round and that HS baseball was just a very small piece of the puzzle. The rest of the year they played on club or AAU teams and were facing teams of similar D1 caliber players. So,imo, both baseball and to a certain degree basketball players, come into college way more seasoned than their FB counterparts. As such, I wouldn't expect defensive lapses to be due to youth the way you expect FR FB players to struggle to make the transition. Am I oversimplifying things here? I'll hang up and listen off air.

The speed of the game and literally the balls put in play are faster at the college level. So while the players are typically more seasoned, it can take some time to adjust to the speed of the game.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Hopefully today we see some sort of 12-5 game. Need to get the train back on the tracks.

 

[4shotB]

The speed of the game and literally the balls put in play are faster at the college level. So while the players are typically more seasoned, it can take some time to adjust to the speed of the game.

Again, I would counter argue that they are playing very similar competition in these club? AAU? (I'm not sure which) competitions. Both of these kids played on teams loosely based in ATL (6 hours from here) but with other teammates who also came from various parts of the Southeast. Their teammates were all college (or pro) prospects. Their tournament games were played almost anywhere from Florida to Texas to New England. Air travel was essential. The expense, time and energy to compete were enormous and baseball was a full time job for them although they kept up with their schoolwork for the most part. They certainly weren't honor roll or valedictorian types.Their parents were wealthy and I don't understand how a child that was middle class or worse could have swung it.

I have seen D1 FB players as well and they don't have near the $ or time invested (travel) as these kids do although they too worked almost year round but without the actual reps, practices, hands on coaching or game experience.

I know there is a player or recruit's dad that is a member here and contributes but I don't recall who. I would love to hear his perspective on this topic

 

[FredJacket]

Just curious on y'alls take on this. As a teacher, I have taught 2 kids very recently that had D1 baseball offers. My impression was that they played ball year round and that HS baseball was just a very small piece of the puzzle. The rest of the year they played on club or AAU teams and were facing teams of similar D1 caliber players. So,imo, both baseball and to a certain degree basketball players, come into college way more seasoned than their FB counterparts. As such, I wouldn't expect defensive lapses to be due to youth the way you expect FR FB players to struggle to make the transition. Am I oversimplifying things here? I'll hang up and listen off air.

Good questions. I don't REALLY know, but it's never stopped me around here before.

You assume the error rate was lower in those elite HS events. I don't know about that. Also... these are kids. The level of consistent concentration & effort in practice & games required to meet our expectations is probably too much to ask.

I also agree with @THWG ...the college game is a step up. Everything is moving a little faster.

 

[THWG]

Again, I would counter argue that they are playing very similar competition in these club? AAU? (I'm not sure which) competitions. Both of these kids played on teams loosely based in ATL (6 hours from here) but with other teammates who also came from various parts of the Southeast. Their teammates were all college (or pro) prospects. Their tournament games were played almost anywhere from Florida to Texas to New England. Air travel was essential. The expense, time and energy to compete were enormous and baseball was a full time job for them although they kept up with their schoolwork for the most part. They certainly weren't honor roll or valedictorian types.Their parents were wealthy and I don't understand how a child that was middle class or worse could have swung it.

I have seen D1 FB players as well and they don't have near the $ or time invested (travel) as these kids do although they too worked almost year round but without the actual reps, practices, hands on coaching or game experience.

I know there is a player or recruit's dad that is a member here and contributes but I don't recall who. I would love to hear his perspective on this topic

While they are playing similar players. Those players are new to college when they get there, too. They aren't playing college juniors and seniors on those circuits who have a few years in a college weight room and know what to expect from the grind of playing college baseball. Again, baseball players are more polished than other sports, but experience is still a key as players understand what to expect from the new level of competition.

 

[4shotB]

You assume the error rate was lower in those elite HS events. I don't know about that. Also... these are kids. The level of consistent concentration & effort in practice & games required to meet our expectations is probably too much to ask.

I also agree with @THWG ...the college game is a step up. Everything is moving a little faster.

You make a great point on my assumptions. Without having seen us play, my expectations of a college level player (any sport) execute fundamental plays at a higher level than a good HS player (duh!). If the errors described here are those caused by players with superior range and athleticism getting to balls that a HS player would not get a glove on, that is fine. By inference only however, it sounds like we are making many mistakes on routine catches or throws. That is disturbing and thus raises the questions I asked. Like you I am participating in a conversation with little or no knowledge of the facts and like you, I refuse to allow that to prevent me from participating in these discussions.

One of the things that our BB (hoops) team did to MAKE me watch and get interested is that they played solid, fundamental ball. Took care of the ball. Played hard on D. Just stuff that can and should be coachable. Stuff that my coaches and myslf expected of me. This fall, I am expecting our team to reduce the self inflicted wounds after 2 years of adjustment. 6 false starts or 3 personal fouls in a game is not great FB to watch.

 

[FredJacket]

You make a great point on my assumptions. Without having seen us play, my expectations of a college level player (any sport) execute fundamental plays at a higher level than a good HS player (duh!). If the errors described here are those caused by players with superior range and athleticism getting to balls that a HS player would not get a glove on, that is fine. By inference only however, it sounds like we are making many mistakes on routine catches or throws. That is disturbing and thus raises the questions I asked. Like you I am participating in a conversation with little or no knowledge of the facts and like you, I refuse to allow that to prevent me from participating in these discussions.

One of the things that our BB (hoops) team did to MAKE me watch and get interested is that they played solid, fundamental ball. Took care of the ball. Played hard on D. Just stuff that can and should be coachable. Stuff that my coaches and myslf expected of me. This fall, I am expecting our team to reduce the self inflicted wounds after 2 years of adjustment. 6 false starts or 3 personal fouls in a game is not great FB to watch.

Yep. & I need to be clear. So far... the execution for this team is bad & unacceptable & costing games; but...

My expectations > what is probably realistic > what we're seeing

 

[GTNavyNuke]

We may be playing bad but I'll be there when we start at 1600 today. If we get down 5-6 runs, I may tap out earlier than I would if we were playing well. But it's a new day and we can start a winning streak today.

Great thing about baseball is how many times a week you play. Flush it and move on in short order.

 

[THWG]

Heck of a win today!!!! Archer has turned into an absolute horse and makes a great second punch behind Hurter. Bartnicki was fantastic and Maxwell was good enough to get out of his own jam. Defense was phenomenal and the 2 hits we got were clutch!!