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UNC @ GT Tuesday @ 7PM

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Basketball' started by crut, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. ESPNjacket

    ESPNjacket Helluva Engineer

    I agree with this. Blaming shooters is like blaming the quarterback. While sometimes it is true, most of the time it is a poor scheme or a poorly taught scheme that makes those things look bad. We are getting into the heart of the season. We should have one set or two we can run fairly well by now.

    Part of it is that we've been experimenting with different sets and rotations most of the year. Generally in sports you need to be good at one thing first then add other stuff. Just jumping around changing things leads to being below average in lots of stuff.

    I hope our fans are starting to understand how Lammers really made things easier for other players with his old school high post passing. We haven't figured out how to get the offense started this year.
    kg01, lauraee and Peacone36 like this.
  2. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

    The problem is with the way the game is now if you can't hit threes it's hard to have any offense that looks good at all. In the first 10 or so minutes we went about 0-9 on threes and about 6 or 7 were very good looks. After that we got gun shy from outside, along with UNC slightly changing how they defended, and we tried going in more, but that's going to look ugly because we don't have anybody who is really great at beating their guy off the dribble, and our post players are good, but not carry the load great.

    Also, one thing I want to point out just in general. People were talking about how they wish they had Adam Smith back. People forget we came to see him when he was a redshirt senior.

    As a freshman in the colonial he shot 33% from threes. As a redshirt sophomore in the ACC he shot 36%.

    Look across the ACC, the best 3 point shooters are almost exclusively juniors and seniors. Ty Outlaw was 33% as a freshman. Cameron Johnson 35%. Markell Johnson 25%. CJ Bryce was 33% as a soph at UNCW. Hughes at Cuse was 27%. Vasilijevic or w/e was 35%. Obviously there are exceptions but it's not a recipe for success to be leaning as hard as we are on freshmen and sophomores. But that doesn't mean they are doomed to always be shooting like this going forward.
    JonathanV, okiemon and jbix80 like this.
  3. gte447f

    gte447f Helluva Engineer

    Definitely clogged toilet offense at times. The stuff we are running on offense is not high level stuff. We either get it into the post or we don't. Looking back, I can't believe cuse and especially ND let us feed the post the way we did. Then half the time when we get it into the post our post players, especially Banks, are way too slow to make a move with the ball.

    I agree that everyone on this team is afraid to shoot the ball, period. Sure, they jacked up a few 3's early, but that was mostly Haywood, and like someone said above, he is so far into his own head right now it's ridiculous. You watch these guys, blowing fast break layups, choosing to make the extra, ill-advised, contorted pass that ends up being a turnover instead of putting up a contested shot in the lane or near the rim, guards passing the ball to forwards and centers outside the 3 point line with 2 seconds on the shot clock because they don't want to be the guy with the ball in his hands when it counts, missing put-back bunnies because they are anticipating the blocked shot... these guys are playing scared. They are timid and they are afraid to fail, so they keep giving up scoring opportunities, passing the buck to their teammates, making dumb mistakes and turning the ball over.

    Pastner needs a sports psychologist on staff bad.
  4. gte447f

    gte447f Helluva Engineer

    We are a terrible end of clock team. So, why the heck do we stand at the top of the key and dribble in place until there are 10 seconds left on the shot clock? Stupid.
    GTRock likes this.
  5. ESPNjacket

    ESPNjacket Helluva Engineer

    ever is that you have to be able to execute an offense.

    We missed some long 3s early but stopped being able to execute a basic offense against a team that isn't very good defensively. Shooting is obviously important but basketball isn't simply shooting.

    We have a schematic issue at the moment that has to be fixed. We were consistent offensively the last 2 years because, when in doubt, the offense flowed through Lammers. We need a similar "first move" we can go to to start things when all else stagnates. Right now we let Devoe or Alvarado dribble around. That isn't their game and it shouldn't be.
    slugboy likes this.
  6. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer


    I don't know what you remember about the last two years but we may have been consistent on offense but not for the better. This year we are averaging 68.4 and are 269th in scoring. Last year we were 65.7 and 300th. 317th. Year before 66.7 and 300th. This year we are 285th in efficiency. We were 283rd last year, and 311th the year before. Obviously those numbers are skewed a bit because we haven't finished ACC play this year but the point stands. We may have been more structured because we had an upperclassman to focus the offense around, but we weren't better and we don't have that option this year. Our entire back court is freshmen and sophomores, and of the other 4 rotation players 2 are sophs and 1 is a transfer in his first year both here and as a major piece. While we may have some issues scheme related, it isn't the biggest issue, and the best scheme isn't going to give us what we really need and that is experience.
    lauraee and JonathanV like this.
  7. AUFC

    AUFC Helluva Engineer

    I'd like to see AD and Banks kick the ball out to a 3-point shooter more often than they do. I'm sure every opponent that watches their game film sees that as soon as either guy gets the ball in the low post, the ball is eventually going to be thrown to the rim. UNC guards did a good job of giving their big man help but left open should-be 3 point shooters. Either AD/Banks are being ball hogs or they don't trust Curtis/Jose/Devoe/Evan/etc to knock down the open 3. Do I blame them? - http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/59/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct We're definitely missing Alston badly.
    jbix80 likes this.
  8. Peacone36

    Peacone36 ACCBasketballReport.com Contributing Writer

    I think the biggest problem is we don’t run anything to get shooters open. Pass off, “hard cut” pop back out. Rarely see a screen off the ball. Rarely a corner triple attempt in a half court aet
    GTRock and slugboy like this.
  9. Kmag

    Kmag Ramblin' Wreck

    I see them shoot often with no one around. I think the biggest problem is we don’t have shooters.
  10. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

    We scored 54 points. UNCheat scored 46 in the second half, while playing a lot of their bench most of the time. Sad. They scored about 25 points in the first 6 minutes of the second half.
  11. MiracleWhips

    MiracleWhips Ramblin' Wreck

    While I agree with a lot of what has been said, I think everyone needs to relax. UNCheat is a Final Four team no question.
    lauraee likes this.
  12. slugboy

    slugboy Moderator Staff Member

    I’m sure one of our deeper roundball experts will write up what they saw. I’ve seen some sharp observations so far.

    I watched the whole game. I really enjoyed the three point lead we started with (small victories). I tried to watch the game as us vs previous us instead of us vs UNC, and did OK at that.

    For a while, I thought our defense looked good even though UNC kept scoring. Our three point defense made UNC take shots from way outside the arc. For most teams, that would have driven their percentages down, but UNC was still nailing them. I have to tip my hat to them there.

    With turnovers, we were in danger of getting run out of our own building in the first half, but we’d steal the ball back and keep UNC from scoring. We played better, and probably would have looked better against a lesser team, but had way too many errors—passes out of bounds, etc. Yesterday’s passes out of bounds looked much better than the Louisville game’s turnovers, but they were still turnovers.

    In the second half, recovering from turnovers stopped, and changed to UNC zooming down the court before we could get back and defend.

    For close in offense, UNC shoots better from 10’ than we do from 3’. Unless you have a good plan, it’s hard to win in those conditions.

    We talk a lot about needing 3 point shooting, but we could really use front court players who can score in short to intermediate range. We seem to only score under the basket, so other teams collapse in with 3 or 4 players and smother us. Did we hit a 10’ jumper yesterday? Did a forward score like that?

    I like how Jose and Devoe are improving their dribbling skills. I’d like to see some other dimensions of the game emerge for other players.

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    GTRock and lauraee like this.
  13. ESPNjacket

    ESPNjacket Helluva Engineer

    I'm not talking about stats. Actually, I would never talk about "scoring" anyway. I'm talking about having a way to start the offense. We used the high post to start the offense and ran cuts off of it last year. It got everyone moving and the ball to change hands.

    We didn't have high percentage shooting because we didn't have that skill. But we had a plan and executed it. Having a plan to start the offense isn't about experience.

    I'm not surprised at all with the results. This is what I expected. I am disappointed in the offensive scheme, or lack of one.
    GTRock and Peacone36 like this.
  14. 684Bee

    684Bee Helluva Engineer

    You gotta think that this job has aged Pastner. He came in at what, age 39? All wide-eyed and optimistic. Had a good first year. Over-achieved. Then, bam!, the Ron Bell fiasco, best players suspended, rash of injuries, the Labarrie debacle, Okogie leaves after only two years, losing recruits left and right.....

    I'd bet that deep down, though he wouldn't publicly say it, he thought he'd be able to land some of these top recruits that we missed on by now. It's like all that crap that happened last season has left a black cloud and a stink around the program.

    We need some kind of good mojo (land a good recruit, run off a string of wins, etc.) to shake the stink off.
    alagold likes this.
  15. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

    Well we are actually probably within 5 total wins of where we thought we would be after 3 years. But yea, what a rough row to hoe with all that other stuff.

    We have 4 guys on our team next year who are top 125 nationally. I can't remember when the last time was we had that. We don't lose that much this year to graduation. And those 4 guys are Center, Forward, Shooting Guard, Point Guard...so spread around pretty well. I think our young team getting order will help a lot. Now having said that, we do need to keep getting at least 1 top 125 (preferably top 50-75) each year. We can't live off of transfers forever.
  16. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

    I knew what I was going to see when I came to this thread this morning. "Whoa is me...!" "We suck" " coaches can't coach" " we can't shoot" blah, blah, blah.

    Compare the comments after this game to the comments after the Notre Dame game or the Syracuse game and you see the tale of two sides. If we win and play scrappily, then the comments are positive, we're turning the corner, the coaches are finally getting it. When we lose, especially if we look bad doing it (a la UNC or UL), the sky is falling.

    Truth is we're a mid-level skilled team (for ACC) that is still relatively young in their top skilled players. We don't have those top level shooters, with all-around games yet. We have young players who are learning to scrap for everything they get. They make mistakes on both ends of the court that hurt their chances to win. But their effort has been tremendous. Sometimes the other team is not just more talented, they're "on" as well.

    We're getting better, one step at a time. These guys are growing up and progressing. I expect next year we'll be better and the following year we will be competing for the top half of the ACC. I look at Wright, Cole, CGB, and I see huge improvements from last year. I look at our freshmen and see an capacity for excellent play with a little more time. I get frustrated when we play poorly, can't finish lay-ups, and can't shoot outside shots with any regularity. I get frustrated too when we go on scoring droughts. But in the end, these guys are still relatively young in the overall scheme of things, and I have the patience to wait and see.

    There have been times every games that it appears the coaches are falling asleep with offensive strategy. But, I'm confident that our coaches know much more about our players and game strategy than I ever will, so I'm going to let them do their job.

    Just my turn to vent. Thanks for reading.
    lauraee likes this.
  17. kg01

    kg01 Get-Bak! Coach Featured Member

    How embarrassing was it for us to do the 'air-bawlll' thing for that one kid. Next thing you know, dude literally hit like 5 3's in a row.

    Crowd was like ... "Aaiiiir-bawwww .... uhm ... crickets ...."

  18. gte447f

    gte447f Helluva Engineer

    Lammers was not as effective from the high post last year as he was the year before. I know he had an ankle injury all year last year, but that doesn't explain all of the ineffectiveness last year. Lammers' high post position moved further and further away from the basket last year. At times he was receiving the high post entry pass beyond the top of the key. It didn't work when he got extended too far from the lane. The high post entry pass needs to be made to the free throw line. I don't know why the staff let that happen last year. I know in the beginning of the season last year there was talk about extending Lammers' range and developing his 3 point shot for the NBA. He took a few 3's early in the season, and did not shoot a good percentage, then stopped shooting 3's, but he kept setting the high post too far outside. It may have had something to do with the ankle injury also; maybe he felt like he needed more space to operate in on the bum ankle.

    Banks does the same thing sometimes (extends the high post too far above the free throw line), and it is totally ineffective when he does it also.

    Our bigs have to set the high post at the free throw line and our guards have to commit to finding ways to get them the ball there. Extending the high post to the perimeter plays right into the hands of the defense.
  19. mstranahan

    mstranahan Helluva Engineer

    Have to agree with @kg01 on this one. Coby White was killing us. Missed a shot. Students start the "air ball" thing. White finishes the game 5-9 from 3, 19 points & 8 Assists. Did he have an airball? yup. did he dominate the game? yup
  20. gte447f

    gte447f Helluva Engineer

    Well, we had to at least try...

    Way more embarrassing was the overwhelming TAR... HEELS chants in the second half from the majority UNC fans in our building.

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