Trying not to be tacky

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

After watching the game again, and reading quite a few posts on the subject of ND holding and pushing off, is it fair to say that the Irish were "better coached" in the subtleties of those judgment- call areas? We are accused of chop-blocking to a fault (altho we have apparently cleaned that up significantly). The infractions I saw seemed well taught. We got beat in a lot of different areas, but in a tight game a play here and there can affect the outcome. As they say in baseball: "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'".

 

[B Lifsey]

As they say in baseball: "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'".

Exactly what I was thinking as I read your post...except I thought it came from NASCAR...

 

[Boomergump]

After watching the game again, and reading quite a few posts on the subject of ND holding and pushing off, is it fair to say that the Irish were "better coached" in the subtleties of those judgment- call areas? We are accused of chop-blocking to a fault (altho we have apparently cleaned that up significantly). The infractions I saw seemed well taught. We got beat in a lot of different areas, but in a tight game a play here and there can affect the outcome. As they say in baseball: "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'".

Having watched much of the game closely, I would agree, in that my characterization of all the pushoffs etc as borderline. Had the call gone the other way and offensive PI called, people wouldn't be complaining. However, with that said, I have seen worse officiated games. We got beat. IMHO, the refs were not a MAJOR factor.

 

[4shotB]

In regards to contact between defenders and receivers, I tend to 'favor' a little "let them play" attitude on the part of the refs. Just as I do in BB. I think players (and coaches) need to adapt to the style being allowed by the refs and take full advantage. Basketball players are accustomed to this. I also agree with Boomer - refs were not a major factor.

 

[Captain killem]

It is easy to analyze after the fact. During live action it can be difficult to catch all infractions. There are missed calls in every game, some for you some against you. The quality teams will adapt and overcome these challenges. Georgia Tech is a quality team and we will overcome them. We have had one bad game, no need to nit pick and over analyze. Should we have made some different play calls, sure buts it's easy to armchair quarterback after the fact. My hope is that going forward we work harder and this hiccup will be overcome.

 

[awbuzz]

Noticed a lot of "no calls" but then again we probably had some too. Re-watching the game at home and being able to go back and slow things down made me fell better about some of what I thought were missed calls.
The big one that they should have gotten was the hold on JH thet kept him from getting to Procise as he went through the line on his 91 yd scamper.

 

[JorgeJonas]

I think we should stipulate that the officiating was poor, and the pushoff non-call was wrong, but it wasn't helmet to helmet on Cooper Taylor against Tyrod Taylor in 2008 bad. The officiating hurt us, but it didn't sink us is what I'm saying, I think.

I will say it's getting old being on the short end of bad calls, though. We don't need to discuss the UGA or Duke games last year. There were some very close fumble calls that we got against Pitt last year, but really the last game changing call that we got in our favor was the fumble call against Southern. So frustrating.

 

[B Lifsey]

I didn't take the intent of this thread to blame the refs for the loss. I took it to be more that ND players appeared better at pushing the limits on actions like push-offs and holds that are judgement calls by the refs.

 

[jeffgt14]

 

[tech_wreck47]

I didn't take the intent of this thread to blame the refs for the loss. I took it to be more that ND players appeared better at pushing the limits on actions like push-offs and holds that are judgement calls by the refs.

I see, and agree with what you are saying, but that first push off by fuller is not a judgement call it was just plain offensive pass interference. I was sitting in the corner of the end zone there and it was very obvious.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

After watching the game again, and reading quite a few posts on the subject of ND holding and pushing off, is it fair to say that the Irish were "better coached" in the subtleties of those judgment- call areas? We are accused of chop-blocking to a fault (altho we have apparently cleaned that up significantly). The infractions I saw seemed well taught. We got beat in a lot of different areas, but in a tight game a play here and there can affect the outcome. As they say in baseball: "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'".

Thank you for putting into words what I have struggled to suggest. Some on here thought we were blaming the refs for our loss. I was accused of that on another site directly. But I was trying to say more of what you are saying. There offensive line especially seemed well trained in the subtle holding techniques that we often see on Sundays but which are seldom called. The pushing off was acknowledged by one of our players as "just part of the game."

Yes, they were well prepared in every area of the game and that included having an advantage in penalty calls.

 

[jeffgt14]

I didn’t think the officiating was that bad. The first Will Fuller TD catch was essentially nothing. Milton just played it terribly. The 91 yard run the hole was so wide open a hold would’ve just bailed us out. The 2nd Will Fuller TD catch was a full on push off but crap happens.

 

[Frenchise]

When I get time I will post the GIFs, but there were quite a few holds by the ND OL that were simply missed. I'm talking about in the open field. Freeman was the most frequent victim.

 

[GTech63]

Having watched much of the game closely, I would agree, in that my characterization of all the pushoffs etc as borderline. Had the call gone the other way and offensive PI called, people wouldn't be complaining. However, with that said, I have seen worse officiated games. We got beat. IMHO, the refs were not a MAJOR factor.

I thought there more blatant missed holding calls on PJ Davis just like the ones in last years Duke game. They don't seem to call holding unless a player is wrestled to the ground.

PI is even more puzzling to me. One play a defender got to the ball from behind but hit our guy before the ball got there. IMO defender has the right to the ball but not by going through the receiver or hitting his arms hands etc before ball gets there. I don't understand what face guarding is because there was one play left corner of goal line where their defender was not looking back and went into our receiver. May have been the play where the over celebration blew out a knee.

Would be interesting to see videos used by Refs to show what is PI and what is holding. Expect more of the same this Saturday. Just like at ND it is their house but not 70,000 fans to keep happy only 20,000.

Good teams overcome and we were not good enough to overcome last Sat. But some calls or no calls did influence the flow of the game. But that is football and most any sport. A lot of judgement used in critical calls.

 

[Bogey]

I see, and agree with what you are saying, but that first push off by fuller is not a judgement call it was just plain offensive pass interference. I was sitting in the corner of the end zone there and it was very obvious.

It was certainly well timed.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I didn’t think the officiating was that bad. The first Will Fuller TD catch was essentially nothing. Milton just played it terribly. The 91 yard run the hole was so wide open a hold would’ve just bailed us out. The 2nd Will Fuller TD catch was a full on push off but crap happens.

The first one was a full push off, fuller did it with both hands Milton was right next to fuller then magically 2 or 3 yards away. I was in the corner of that endzone and I overheard a ND fan even talking about, at least that's what I believe they were talking about.

 

[Legal Jacket]

After watching the game again, and reading quite a few posts on the subject of ND holding and pushing off, is it fair to say that the Irish were "better coached" in the subtleties of those judgment- call areas? We are accused of chop-blocking to a fault (altho we have apparently cleaned that up significantly). The infractions I saw seemed well taught. We got beat in a lot of different areas, but in a tight game a play here and there can affect the outcome. As they say in baseball: "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'".

Kinda tough to say when they had twice as many flags as we did for nearly twice as many yards. That said, they certainly got away with some holding, but doesn't everyone?

I thought overall the refs did an ok job, except to miss a few clear holds that materially affected our pass rush.

 

[takethepoints]

GBS said it best: "Fair play is a spectator's virtue, not a participant's."

I tend to expect that teams will do what they can to win within the rules and know which rules they can push. The problem when you go to a place like South Bend is that the refs may have very different ideas of what the pushable rules are. This can make life difficult.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I don't understand what face guarding is

It isn't called anymore.

I thought there more blatant missed holding calls on PJ Davis just like the ones in last years Duke game.

First series for Notre Dame is excellent example of this.

One play a defender got to the ball from behind but hit our guy before the ball got there.

Saw that too.

Good teams overcome and we were not good enough to overcome last Sat. But some calls or no calls did influence the flow of the game. But that is football and most any sport. A lot of judgement used in critical calls.

And this is the most important part. A certain Miami coach once said, "Never put a game with Notre Dame in the hands of a ref." I took that to be not as cynical as it sounded. He was just saying what a lot of us feel which is we need to be good enough that these calls are just part of the wall paper of a football game. We certainly were good enough to beat uga last year and thus, in that game, the refs made no difference.

 

[GTech63]

Is face guarding OK now or is it just not called like many hold are not called?