Thinking about the unusually high attrition of late

ATL1

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GTNavyNuke

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Does anyone know how to quantify the attrition we have had of non-graduating players since the previous season for other than graduation? Every year there are several and for various reasons. This year seems to be the highest by far. I was thinking about looking at the rosters, but they get filled with non-scholarship players if there aren't scholarship players. So that would be a lot of work to figure out the "career" of every commit at GT. (I did that for baseball, but there a lot fewer players. Baseball has a lot of loses too, mostly from kids who don't get to play becasue others start in front of them and won't make the MLB.)

I think that whether this is good or bad for the program depends on what contribution each player would have made to the team (unknowable), how many problems the player would have caused (unknowable) and the quality of the replacement commits we now get early (some what knowable).

It seems that the 13 left and one never came, for several different reasons. It is pure speculation since we are not given the reasons that most left (Vad was an exception) or we dismissed from the team. Violating team rules is a very broad category.
 

Northeast Stinger

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"Before APR we could get kids to stay eligible w/o graduating them. Not any more. That's huge, imo. How many of Ross' players would have been eligible on today's standards (APR)? O'Leary was better, I admit, but nowhere near Johnson."

Excellent point. There is no where left to hide a kid in school. He is either making real progress or he is gone.
 

GTNavyNuke

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"Before APR we could get kids to stay eligible w/o graduating them. Not any more. That's huge, imo. How many of Ross' players would have been eligible on today's standards (APR)? O'Leary was better, I admit, but nowhere near Johnson."

Excellent point. There is no where left to hide a kid in school. He is either making real progress or he is gone.


True but how many of the 13 we lost we because of APR?
 

Northeast Stinger

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"Before APR we could get kids to stay eligible w/o graduating them. Not any more. That's huge, imo. How many of Ross' players would have been eligible on today's standards (APR)? O'Leary was better, I admit, but nowhere near Johnson."

Excellent point. There is no where left to hide a kid in school. He is either making real progress or he is gone.
 

daBuzz

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Does anyone know how to quantify the attrition we have had of non-graduating players since the previous season for other than graduation? Every year there are several and for various reasons. This year seems to be the highest by far. I was thinking about looking at the rosters, but they get filled with non-scholarship players if there aren't scholarship players. So that would be a lot of work to figure out the "career" of every commit at GT. (I did that for baseball, but there a lot fewer players. Baseball has a lot of loses too, mostly from kids who don't get to play becasue others start in front of them and won't make the MLB.)

I think that whether this is good or bad for the program depends on what contribution each player would have made to the team (unknowable), how many problems the player would have caused (unknowable) and the quality of the replacement commits we now get early (some what knowable).

It seems that the 13 left and one never came, for several different reasons. It is pure speculation since we are not given the reasons that most left (Vad was an exception) or we dismissed from the team. Violating team rules is a very broad category.
If you look up the GTAA drug use policy, it's pretty clear what happened.
1st offense: counseling
2nd offense: miss 20% of season (2 games)
3rd offense: kicked off team

Link
 

GTNavyNuke

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If you look up the GTAA drug use policy, it's pretty clear what happened.
1st offense: counseling
2nd offense: miss 20% of season (2 games)
3rd offense: kicked off team

Link

We know they were thrown off the team and for some can infer three offenses, but there is no official word (nor will there be) which says the offenses were drug related.

Are there any other offenses that get the 3 strike rule? If not, you are 90+% likely to be right for the ones who we know had two strikes.
 

dressedcheeseside

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True but how many of the 13 we lost we because of APR?
Hard to know. Some guys may have left not because they were in violation, but because they saw the writing on the wall. Who were the 13?

Roberts.... injury
Commissiong.... rules violation
Autry.... rules violation
Henry.... rules violation
Akins.... ???
Custis.... academics
Lee.... didn't like the offense
Hunt Days... academics
Robbins.... ???
Bailey.... injury/disgruntled with coach
Kitchen... ???
Anthony Williams.... rules violation

that's 12, who else? Myles supposedly made it 14. According to some on here he was an academic casualty anyway.
 

Boomergump

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Hard to know. Some guys may have left not because they were in violation, but because they saw the writing on the wall. Who were the 13?

Roberts.... injury
Commissiong.... rules violation
Autry.... rules violation
Henry.... rules violation
Akins.... ???
Custis.... academics
Lee.... didn't like the offense
Hunt Days... academics
Robbins.... ???
Bailey.... injury/disgruntled with coach
Kitchen... ???
Anthony Williams.... rules violation

that's 12, who else? Myles supposedly made it 14. According to some on here he was an academic casualty anyway.
Ty Griffin?
 

GT Man

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I think it could benefit guys to have a buddy system. Keep each other out of trouble when you're off the field.
 

Eric

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Robbins was academics and wanted to be closer to home

Akins had some personal issues going on.
 

awbuzz

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Only Chase for sure due to injury...
So the breakdown is
1 or 2 -Injury (Chase for sure, Bailey?)
1 or 2 - Coach / system (VL for sure, Bailey?)
4 - rules violation
4 - academics
1 - personal reasons/issues

Throw in Ty and Myles into the Coach/System or Academics bucket.

Don't really see anyone being run off just to churn the pool.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Only Chase for sure due to injury...
So the breakdown is
1 or 2 -Injury (Chase for sure, Bailey?)
1 or 2 - Coach / system (VL for sure, Bailey?)
4 - rules violation
4 - academics
1 - personal reasons/issues

Throw in Ty and Myles into the Coach/System or Academics bucket.

Don't really see anyone being run off just to churn the pool.
You have to have a separate bucket to throw Myles in. But I would not be so unkind as to share the label of that bucket publicly. I also would not be so bold as to name a couple of other players on this list who might keep Myles company in that bucket.
 

IEEEWreck

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"Before APR we could get kids to stay eligible w/o graduating them. Not any more. That's huge, imo. How many of Ross' players would have been eligible on today's standards (APR)? O'Leary was better, I admit, but nowhere near Johnson."

Excellent point. There is no where left to hide a kid in school. He is either making real progress or he is gone.
A thought: Who among us did or will get out in four? It's a serious (if only occasionally relevant) issue because the four year graduation plans of several schools (including Electrical Engineering) are a widely derided joke. Yeah, you can get out in four- if you take 17-19 hours every semester. It basically means players CAN'T choose to be engineers and football players if they want to. But hell will freeze over before the Institute acknowledges they are designing five year BS programs.

I tend to look at this from a motivation standpoint. The people who make it (in every program, including Management) are the people with the mental toughness to take a sucker punch to the family jewels 45 on a test and double down, work twice as hard for the next one. I would put my money on the stubborn student of average intellect over the brilliant student who never thought a test was hard if we were betting on who graduates.

For GTAA? That means giving these athletes access to people that teach through example the work ethic needed to get out. In some ways, I think the traditional segregated track for athlete tutoring might be toxic here at Tech. At most schools, it's part of the flash. Separate top quality food, weight room, so why not tutors? At Tech, I think that gets you into a bad head space. I tutor ECE courses through the IEEE Student Branch (accepting donations folks -give the gift of getting out!- ) and the most effective thing I can say to people, especially freshmen and sophomores, is "it's ok, I failed the hell out of that test too, but I still made an A in the class. Everyone else at this table did too. You'll all be ok if you push harder for the next test."

I suspect that absent the cultural context of 'hey, everyone else is doing just as bad as I am' it's too easy to think, "oh ****, I failed even with extra special athlete tailored support! There's no way I am cut out for this. " Once you get it in your head that maybe you can't do it, Georgia Tech will eat you alive and prove you right.

And while I'd give all the mental and emotional guidance and leadership I could, I'd also give the players no damn choice but to study, and give them audited accountability for doing so. GT asks a lot more of you in the way of maturity and self control than intelligence. That's why we've always been the Georgia Tech men, not the Tech boys.
 

TechnicalPossum

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A thought: Who among us did or will get out in four? It's a serious (if only occasionally relevant) issue because the four year graduation plans of several schools (including Electrical Engineering) are a widely derided joke. Yeah, you can get out in four- if you take 17-19 hours every semester. It basically means players CAN'T choose to be engineers and football players if they want to. But hell will freeze over before the Institute acknowledges they are designing five year BS programs.

I tend to look at this from a motivation standpoint. The people who make it (in every program, including Management) are the people with the mental toughness to take a sucker punch to the family jewels 45 on a test and double down, work twice as hard for the next one. I would put my money on the stubborn student of average intellect over the brilliant student who never thought a test was hard if we were betting on who graduates.

For GTAA? That means giving these athletes access to people that teach through example the work ethic needed to get out. In some ways, I think the traditional segregated track for athlete tutoring might be toxic here at Tech. At most schools, it's part of the flash. Separate top quality food, weight room, so why not tutors? At Tech, I think that gets you into a bad head space. I tutor ECE courses through the IEEE Student Branch (accepting donations folks -give the gift of getting out!- ) and the most effective thing I can say to people, especially freshmen and sophomores, is "it's ok, I failed the hell out of that test too, but I still made an A in the class. Everyone else at this table did too. You'll all be ok if you push harder for the next test."

I suspect that absent the cultural context of 'hey, everyone else is doing just as bad as I am' it's too easy to think, "oh ****, I failed even with extra special athlete tailored support! There's no way I am cut out for this. " Once you get it in your head that maybe you can't do it, Georgia Tech will eat you alive and prove you right.

And while I'd give all the mental and emotional guidance and leadership I could, I'd also give the players no damn choice but to study, and give them audited accountability for doing so. GT asks a lot more of you in the way of maturity and self control than intelligence. That's why we've always been the Georgia Tech men, not the Tech boys.

Then you have to explain to your parents why a 40 on a test isn't the end of the world when they are jumping up and down about how you must not be working hard enough. The think I learned the most form Tech is just to put your head down and keep grinding.

I graduated civil in 4 years + 2 summers. The biggest joke I remember was the semester slated for 2 electives + deformable bodies, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and civil materials lab. I think management could be done in 4 if you came in planning to do management and took EAS for your lab sciences.
 
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