Thinking about the unusually high attrition of late

Ramblin Wrecker

Ramblin Wrecker

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dressedcheeseside said:
Well I'm not saying tighten restrictions, in fact, I'm all for the right coach having leeway. You have to be smart about it. Going after lil' Autry was a fool's errand. Maybe the same could be said for Custis. We don't know how many of the other guys who left just felt the rigor and pressure of the academics was too much. Why did Justin Akins leave?

It's not just academics, it's character, too. When I say targeting the "S" in "SA", I meant the "C" (character) as well. (There's no C in SA). The two aren't always tied together but it is often the case. King Ocho was academic and character.

JHD is another academic casualty, btw.
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I completely agree with the premise, but I think it's hard to gauge the "C" of a 17 year old...not every recruit is Will Bryan. I would guess that the character of a lot of these kids is unknown until they get on campus and face a little adversity.

I also think that if you have a solid class of 18 then why not take a flier on a higher risk higher reward type player? I bet we've had quite a few guys with question marks out of high school develop into leaders both on and off the field
 
daBuzz

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dressedcheeseside said:
Yep and waaaaaaaaaaaay more likely at GT than anywhere else. I pointed it out because you made it sound like it was only one guy (MA).
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I'm not sure to what you're referring. I said that the only one of the 14 we lost who was an exception was MA. JHD was a normal enrollee.

Statistically speaking, we lost more "normal athletes" and people who left because they didn't like the offense than exceptions.
 

takethepoints

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I don't know what the answer to all this is, but I think whatever we are doing this year is paying off and we need to keep doing it.

As to the attrition: I think some of it was due to players thinking, probably correctly, that they would never start here, some of it due to the grind of the academics, and some of it – the most recent part – due to SAs who simply didn't think the rules would be enforced. I don't read much into this as systematic evidence; it happens every year, just not in the same concentration at a set of positions (DL). I also don't see much reason to think that the defection so far will make much difference next year; most teams don't play more then 6 - 7 DLs in a game anyhow.

What could make it important is if anyone gets injured. Then one of the frosh will have to be thrown into the mix. That might be a disaster; it might be a Godsend. I'm hoping, obviously, for the latter.
 

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daBuzz said:
I'm not sure to what you're referring. I said that the only one of the 14 we lost who was an exception was MA. JHD was a normal enrollee.

Statistically speaking, we lost more "normal athletes" and people who left because they didn't like the offense than exceptions.
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More than just 1 of the 14 was an exception. It was a few.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

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daBuzz said:
I'm not sure to what you're referring. I said that the only one of the 14 we lost who was an exception was MA. JHD was a normal enrollee.

Statistically speaking, we lost more "normal athletes" and people who left because they didn't like the offense than exceptions.
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You don't have to be an exception to be an academic risk. All the kids enrolled as "normal athletes" fall into a range of academic strength. Some high, most not so high. As we all know, 95% of the kids on the football team wouldn't be at Tech if not for football. That is fine and I understand why, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for the upper end of the spectrum of those who qualify. It behooves us to do so.

All I'm saying is we'd be better off going after kids who's #1 or #1b or #2 (at the very least) priority is academics.
 
daBuzz

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dressedcheeseside said:
You don't have to be an exception to be an academic risk. All the kids enrolled as "normal athletes" fall into a range of academic strength. Some high, most not so high. As we all know, 95% of the kids on the football team wouldn't be at Tech if not for football. That is fine and I understand why, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for the upper end of the spectrum of those who qualify. It behooves us to do so.

All I'm saying is we'd be better off going after kids who's #1 or #1b or #2 (at the very least) priority is academics.
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I understand and wasn't trying to be argumentative. I was told that MA was the only one CPJ had used an exception with the Hill on. For what it's worth, I was told that Custis wasn't even an exception. He was one of the borderline cases but would have been admitted. His problem was with the NCAA clearinghouse with regards to his high school graduation test or something.
 
dressedcheeseside

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daBuzz said:
I understand and wasn't trying to be argumentative. I was told that MA was the only one CPJ had used an exception with the Hill on. For what it's worth, I was told that Custis wasn't even an exception. He was one of the borderline cases but would have been admitted. His problem was with the NCAA clearinghouse with regards to his high school graduation test or something.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sacrifice athletic ability, either, and I don't think we have to. We just have be better at identifying and signing the guys who "fit" GT. I think we're already making strides. The additional staff are not just bodies, they appear to be damn good at their job, too.
 
awbuzz

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daBuzz said:
Academic casualties will happen to the smartest of students when they don't go to class.
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... ask JHD

Granted he didn't fail out, but we know why he isn't on scholly. Thankfully his parents were strong enough and he has enough fortitude to try and "do right" this school year AND he's a walk on to help the team and stay sharp.
 
BainbridgeJacket

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The more worrying outcome from this is a blowback from the school where the football staff loses support from the AA or academic arm as a result of the attrition. Not worth it's own thread, but I know a coach who is worried about a " loss of all support"
 
ATL1

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dressedcheeseside said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at. What do you suggest?
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I'm not sure honestly.
But being a SA can be difficult especially for a for a freshman making the transition from home to school.
The rigors of course load atop of the rigors of college atop of what ever "thing" the student is dealing with.
Counselors, Team Support functions, academic support functions, addiction therapist, whatever is needed.
Bama makes their player & staff visit (sport & otherwise) counselors regularly.
Maybe @Ibeeballin can shed some light. From what he seemed to explain it's currently disorganized.
 
ATL1

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awbuzz said:
Darn sure does! Good for Travin. Hope the "jolt" he received by being dismissed from the team helps him make better decisions in the future. (appears it may already have) :)
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He "may" be able to put himself back in to the good graces if he flies right and bust his behind in the classroom.
 
Longestday

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Keep in mind we don't know everything. The school work may have been to hard or maybe they decided to leave before a being dismissed for other reasons. We just don't know.
 
Buzz776g

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ATL1 said:
I'm not sure honestly.
But being a SA can be difficult especially for a for a freshman making the transition from home to school.
The rigors of course load atop of the rigors of college atop of what ever "thing" the student is dealing with.
Counselors, Team Support functions, academic support functions, addiction therapist, whatever is needed.
Bama makes their player & staff visit (sport & otherwise) counselors regularly.
Maybe @Ibeeballin can shed some light. From what he seemed to explain it's currently disorganized.
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This. I think you have a point.

We all know the joke about "schoolwork -- sleep -- social life, pick two". What if you add another 30? 40? hours a week (at least during the fall) toward participation in a revenue sports program? I don't condone it, but part of me can understand kids that are not accustomed to managing their time ferociously needing (or feeling that they need) chances to just blow out and relax.

The other thing I've observed (I work for a small college) is that we've got about a generation and a half of kids who don't think the rules apply to them. I don't mean that as snotty as it sounds. They're told, by parents, peers, older siblings, counselors, ministers that "you don't get if you don't ask" or "it's always worth an ask." I believe that myself depending on the circumstances (and that's a big depend). But what it can translate to is every time a kid bumps into a rule, there's a chain of "yeah I know that's the rule but there were special circumstances" or "yeah but can we make an exception?" or "yeah but so-and-so said so-and-so let him do this-and-such." I think that's the environment kids come from in today's world.

Blind obedience to rules can certainly be a bad thing. Thinking that all of them can be worked around can be pretty bad, though, too. Red lights in traffic are not just a suggestion.
 
swampsting

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PJ is fond of saying, "My standards are up here" as he holds his hand up near his eyebrows. "I ain't gonna lower it for you. You've got to raise yours to here."
 
iceeater1969

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Wonder how many times the recruits hear same from other head coaches. Probably almost all.

Or the could then hear -" unlike some high brow engineering school who says welcome aboard you are on your own - we have high standards and have a support staff that will help you reach a level you won't believe. We believe in you. At the engr school they just lost xx football players who were very smart kids do to academics. Such a shame"

We will have to look far and wide for highly athletic scholars ( $$$$) and it makes good sense for these HAS to have a quality support system . What are the elements of such a program ?
 
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