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This post has more midlines... these meshes are longer and more "complete".
https://gtswarm.com/threads/time-for-midline-madness.10001/
https://gtswarm.com/threads/time-for-midline-madness.10001/
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Film Room The Mesh and the Midline
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doug
Georgia Tech Fan
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I believe so. It's also the play that Nesbit scored on in the 09 ACC title game where the tv crew did a good breakdown of the play from the overhead camera.
When the midline "blast" is executed properly it's probably the best looking play in the playbook.
zhavenor
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Yes that is correct. Jordan pulls the ball on the read because he thought 60 was going to charge the BB and blow him up. He didn't so Jordan had to eat it because he made the wrong read. It should have been a give to the b back. There are several plays with Nesbitt vs FSU in 09 where he quick pulls the ball out of the dive back on the triple because 1 and 2 were charging in as fast as he could. That is unless it was in fact not a midline and it was just a fake.
strong90
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Love the videos and commentary. I appreciate the time it must take for you to put these together and your analysis makes me feel more connected to the program; the team, the offense, the players...all of it. Thank you!
I agree with you about riding the mesh and I also think it's important to carry out the fake after the give too (something JT didn't do enough, imo).
Perhaps this particular play isn't the best for measuring the effectiveness of the mesh or accuracy of the read. Once the snap was bobbled, the QB's instincts are going to be: 1) secure the ball; and 2) get what you can get. This all happens so fast in live action and he's behind pace from the start. No matter what the play call, once that ball bounced around in his hands, little chance he's going to risk a long mesh read or even pitch. The pump fake is just going through the motions to salvage a play that was out of sync from the snap.
I agree with you about riding the mesh and I also think it's important to carry out the fake after the give too (something JT didn't do enough, imo).
Perhaps this particular play isn't the best for measuring the effectiveness of the mesh or accuracy of the read. Once the snap was bobbled, the QB's instincts are going to be: 1) secure the ball; and 2) get what you can get. This all happens so fast in live action and he's behind pace from the start. No matter what the play call, once that ball bounced around in his hands, little chance he's going to risk a long mesh read or even pitch. The pump fake is just going through the motions to salvage a play that was out of sync from the snap.
ilovetheoption
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The thing is, on blown reads, it's usually the other way. Johnson's old playbooks talk about one way decision making, and it goes the other way.
The basic idea is that you don't have time to think about "give or keep", so you go in there with your mind made up, and you only change it if they FORCE you to change it, and the default is to give. So the QB is thinking "give give give KEEP" if he gets a keep read.
He bailed on the give WAY early, so my guess is he went in there with the idea that he was going to run it, probably because they had given him a "keep" read several times in a row, and he started guessing.
ilovetheoption
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This is another fair point. "Don't turn it over here" was probably his FIRST read.
zhavenor
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Yes, you are right about the decision making. I was working under the presumption of a give unless the dive read can tackle the b back, which is what you were describing. Which is why I guess I was so insistent it was a misread. He did do something similar on the midline triple a couple plays back and he was able to eek out a 5 yard gain. I'm interested if you, or anyone who wants to put forth and opinion on this, think there at all similar and if so if it's how the read is being taught?
alentrekin
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FWIW, I think the give is the default in a neutral down and distance with a non charging 1 --- make the 1 arm tackle the BB.
I am not sure it was a misread. I think there is a chance CPJ put a thumb on the scales with the play call. But I have no idea, obvz.
dressedcheeseside
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This is a perfect example of the nuances of the position that only experience and massive numbers of reps can allow mastery. And there's many more skills just as time dependent as this one.
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I'll stand by the right read but MJ did not put it in the bread basket allowing the DT to change targets.
zhavenor
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And you should. The first time you put your trust in me will be your first mistake
If you see me on the other side of the argument it means you are probably right
dressedcheeseside
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Is MJ looking at shoulder angle or what? It looks like the DT is in position to tackle the Bback if he gives but it's really hard to tell from this angle.
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The DT will either slant or come straight though. Look at the third video in the linked post. That is a give read as the DT comes straight through. All other videos show a slant. The difference in success and failure is the ability to ride the mesh to make the DT commitment. The give read is the easiest,the keep read requires a good mesh. I'll see if I can find video to show what I mean.
I will keep in mind that MJ might have been told to keep... either way you need to carry out the complete mesh.
I will keep in mind that MJ might have been told to keep... either way you need to carry out the complete mesh.
LarryMunson
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Thank you for the analysis. It's greatly appreciated.
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Here is a midline give read... notice how the DT come straight through and not slanted.
alagold
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The difference I see in the 2 plays seen is that on 2nd the QB doesn't step toward the DT on fake so he is a yd away at least so the DT can't play both the QB and bback. If fact he steps back AWAY from the Ctr to give the ball..
Also, on first play if it is a "called" QB carry then either the bback or RG should hit the DT to make sure he doesn't stop play at LOS.
But what is similar on both plays is that the RG NOR Aback ,on right wing, gets a block really -which doesn't help much..
Also, on first play if it is a "called" QB carry then either the bback or RG should hit the DT to make sure he doesn't stop play at LOS.
But what is similar on both plays is that the RG NOR Aback ,on right wing, gets a block really -which doesn't help much..
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There is a QB follow where the BBack does block. This is not the same as the Midline. They look similar, but they are not the same play.
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QB follow is here
This is "good" shell game. You have to complete the mesh on both the QB and BBack. They both have a roll in making sure the DT is guessing who has the ball. Notice how the ball is not in the line of sight of the DT. Good meshes will make the DT commit to the BBack if he slanted.
Here is another angle of the keep read.
And here is a clear give read.
This should very clearly show that the BBack is not a defensive line blocker and the DT slant versus the straight through read.
This is "good" shell game. You have to complete the mesh on both the QB and BBack. They both have a roll in making sure the DT is guessing who has the ball. Notice how the ball is not in the line of sight of the DT. Good meshes will make the DT commit to the BBack if he slanted.
Here is another angle of the keep read.
And here is a clear give read.
This should very clearly show that the BBack is not a defensive line blocker and the DT slant versus the straight through read.
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takethepoints
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Yeah, me too.
This is one of those instances where I would have changed the blocking due to who was nose up on the RG. 60 = Woody Baron, a right good football player who had given us fits for years. On his nose was Shamire, who, when he went right for him, ate his lunch for the entire game. I would have called on Shamire to get Baron and changed the key to the DE. I'm sure we must have a scheme like that for this play.
Well, you can't call them right every time.