The Gap... Johnson on 2017 and the Clemson/UGA gap

[Eastman]

To me it seems that there are clear constraints for anyone coaching at Tech whether it is limited majors, tougher entrance requirements, difficult academics, smaller fan base, limited funds etc. because of those facts I tend to feel that CPJ does a great job. He fields tough competitive teams while doing a great job getting his players the education they came for.

What I don’t understand is the dismissal of the impact of what to me are these clear additional “headwinds” that Tech must overcome while competing at the highest level of college football. O’Leary, Ross and Dodd are brought up as if they are an objective way to support or criticize CPJ’s performance. Duke and Clemson are spoken of as if they are static entities that can be used as objective measuring sticks for comparing coaching performance with teams from decades past.
Maybe I am mistaken but I see Tech as a team that has to overcome many more obstacles than teams like the mutts yet despite that they are almost always competitive and sometimes really good. That impresses me.
In my business some sales territories are much tougher to succeed in that others. When we evaluate performance and see that someone in an inferior territory is consistently competing and even winning at times against those with far more opportunity, we know we have a great rep. That is how I see CPJ.

 

[GSOJacket]

Excellent post, Eastman.

 

[Skeptic]

Not just that they get anyone in a pulse in, there's a lot of other stuff going on. Sammy Watkins gets pulled over for distribution and PEDs and serves a 2 game suspension. Tahj Boyd is connected with Will Lyles (Google them), the street agent selling recruits that got Chip Kelly a show cause at Oregon. Faculty in the real estate program (being paid by Clemson) hire players at their businesses regularly after graduation (legal but seems like the school is subsidizing salaries for their recruits after they get out). There's so much shady stuff going on up there that may be legal but that wouldn't pass at a place like Tech.

I am still waiting for the first actual proof that any of that exists, when in fact the only place it ever surfaces is on a rival's football message board, anonymously. We need to stop whining about made-up, want-to-believe accusations and start figuring out how to stay competitive. Watkins was charged with possession, not intent to sell, and a two-game suspension is consistent for the offense across the college landscape. I don't know what "connected with" means, though certainly it is written to sound sinister but without explanation. It is a clean program, with loads of money, complete support from the administration, unmatched facilities, outstanding coaching top to bottom and money to pay for the salaries required, and a commitment to stay on top. That is more than adequate to explain their winning. They're a great rival, I hate them for a week every year, most especially for five hours on a Saturday, but if we are to compete then we have to play up and not expect them to play down. We have before and I expect we will again. When we do both programs will be clean.

 

[redmule]

Have a long running argument with a Clemson friend. He absolutely hates the TO, and keeps saying we need to fire CPJ. He hasn't come to the Clemson game in Atlanta in ages because he gets so mad when CPJ beats them. The 2012 game when they were 8-0, #5, and Washington rushed for almost 200 yds nearly put him in the hospital. He thinks we should run the same offense as Clemson. I tell him we would not be able to recruit the same type players because of academics. He always called BS on that until he recently looked at the courses Tech players have to take, especially the math and science. Now he says that it's not really math just made to look like it in the catalog, and the players get lots of help. But he knows that if Clemson had the same degree requirements, they wouldn't be running their offense either, nor would they be anywhere as successful as Tech has been over the years.

If we're going to cherry pick, CPJ has beaten uga three times as did O'Leary. Ross did twice, Curry twice, Pepper twice. He's beaten VT three of the last four, two of those on the road. FSU three of the last five. O'Leary or Chan never beat FSU, IIRC, with more chances. I've been to two Orange Bowls with CPJ. I was too young to go to the one before that with Dodd. I had to wait over forty years, but now I've been twice. One last cherry to pick, O'Leary, Ross, and Curry all left us.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I am still waiting for the first actual proof that any of that exists, when in fact the only place it ever surfaces is on a rival's football message board, anonymously. We need to stop whining about made-up, want-to-believe accusations and start figuring out how to stay competitive. Watkins was charged with possession, not intent to sell, and a two-game suspension is consistent for the offense across the college landscape. I don't know what "connected with" means, though certainly it is written to sound sinister but without explanation. It is a clean program, with loads of money, complete support from the administration, unmatched facilities, outstanding coaching top to bottom and money to pay for the salaries required, and a commitment to stay on top. That is more than adequate to explain their winning. They're a great rival, I hate them for a week every year, most especially for five hours on a Saturday, but if we are to compete then we have to play up and not expect them to play down. We have before and I expect we will again. When we do both programs will be clean.

They are a factory. They are a very successful factory, but that just means they do the factory thing better than the others.

It is much easier to be a successful factory if you have all the resources Clemson has than to be a successful non-factory. That is why they do it.

There are very, very few successful non-factories.

 

[Skeptic]

Have a long running argument with a Clemson friend. He absolutely hates the TO, and keeps saying we need to fire CPJ. He hasn't come to the Clemson game in Atlanta in ages because he gets so mad when CPJ beats them. The 2012 game when they were 8-0, #5, and Washington rushed for almost 200 yds nearly put him in the hospital. He thinks we should run the same offense as Clemson. I tell him we would not be able to recruit the same type players because of academics. He always called BS on that until he recently looked at the courses Tech players have to take, especially the math and science. Now he says that it's not really math just made to look like it in the catalog, and the players get lots of help. But he knows that if Clemson had the same degree requirements, they wouldn't be running their offense either, nor would they be anywhere as successful as Tech has been over the years.

If we're going to cherry pick, CPJ has beaten uga three times as did O'Leary. Ross did twice, Curry twice, Pepper twice. He's beaten VT three of the last four, two of those on the road. FSU three of the last five. O'Leary or Chan never beat FSU, IIRC, with more chances. I've been to two Orange Bowls with CPJ. I was too young to go to the one before that with Dodd. I had to wait over forty years, but now I've been twice. One last cherry to pick, O'Leary, Ross, and Curry all left us.

They do hate the option, with good reason. And while the coaches will say they don't do anything differently to prepare for it, Venables will set aside a couple of days come August and the defense will work on nothing except the spread option. When we are running it right -- and we have had a couple of years of late that we haven't -- I look forward to seeing Johnson minding up against Venables and Bud Foster. Those times are to me pure coaching and fun to try to understand in real time.

 

[Skeptic]

They are a factory. They are a very successful factory, but that just means they do the factory thing better than the others.

It is much easier to be a successful factory if you have all the resources Clemson has than to be a successful non-factory. That is why they do it.

There are very, very few successful non-factories.

No argument from me. And maybe not even from them. They have seen what the program has done for their national profile and student interest/enrollment (out-of-state = lots more tuition) and so far are all in with it.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

No argument from me. And maybe not even from them. They have seen what the program has done for their national profile and student interest/enrollment (out-of-state = lots more tuition) and so far are all in with it.

We don’t have nearly the sports programs they do and yet we are harder to get into, i.e. greater academic interest/competition, than them.

 

[Skeptic]

We don’t have nearly the sports programs they do and yet we are harder to get into, i.e. greater academic interest/competition, than them.

I'm not privy to all those numbers, but I know applications have boomed and the last time I was on that campus construction was going on everywhere. That in spite of the usual Southern distaste for higher education, and legislatures have slashed operating budgets with no regard for learning, and not just in South Carolina. We have a real distrust of it apparently.

 

[jgtengineer]

I'm not privy to all those numbers, but I know applications have boomed and the last time I was on that campus construction was going on everywhere. That in spite of the usual Southern distaste for higher education, and legislatures have slashed operating budgets with no regard for learning, and not just in South Carolina. We have a real distrust of it apparently.

It is a preservation thing by the right wing side of the isle. Neither side really values stem education. The left wants to keep their degree mills intact. The right wants to target the left's power base.