The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

LibertyTurns

Banned
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6,216
LOL...the mental acrobatics on your reply.

If Brandon Adams knew he could have avoided death that day by NOT participating in those activities that day, do you think he would have still elected to do so? May he rest in peace, but man, to use that example to justify other kids risking their health is in pretty bad taste, Liberty. You're better than that.

If someone has the measles, are you going to actively enter a game where you have to make contact with them and they are breathing heavily all over you and trading sweat? At least with the measles you can see it on the other person and avoid them. You can't say that with this virus.

When did we get to the point where it's acceptable that kids are risking their health and lives to entertain us? It's one thing when it's adults that have to risk their lives and health to make a living to support themselves and pay their bills, but it's a whole other a matter when it's amatuer kids playing sports. We have lost the plot.

I'm all for sports in a safe and healthy environment for fans, coaches, and especially players. If everyone is at risk, what the heck is the point? As I said before, this nation, and the world, can use sports in the worst way right now. It's usually what heals and brings us together in the time of need and tragedy. Unfortunately, we're not in a place where the current environment is safe for everyone. They're probably going to move forward with plans for playing, because greed and human stupidity never fails and usually win out. Let's cross our fingers that a vaccine or medicine to treat the infected is quickly found. Personally, it would make me sick to my stomach if one of our players got sick from this virus and passed away because he was infected from sports activities.
This is weak. Nobody would do anything ending in death if they could predict the future.

The facts regarding risk just do not justify the hysteria. You’re more at risk in Brunswick, Ga if you’re under 25 than from C19 even if you live in NYC.
 
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I mean, that’s just another way of saying you don’t like what we are doing now. It’s irrelevant to compare it to a time when there was no TV, no internet, we were in the middle of a war, and we were winning football games by over a hundred points without wearing helmets.
I don't dislike much of what we are doing now, but, at the same time, I think we may be doing more than we actually need to be doing.
 

orientalnc

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While we are arguing about the start of football...

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CTJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
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532
People get sick every day. There’s practically zero risk to healthy people under 40. Sure it’s not zero, but it’s damn close. If you’re under 25 in Florida there’s a .0075% chance of going to the hospital for C19. The chance of going to the ICU is .000107% or 1 out of every 931k kids under 25 might end up in the ICU. Shut down the nation, the risk is too high!
Now you're just putting words in my mouth. When did I say keep things shut down? I'm all for opening up with the correct precautions. In fact, many states ARE opening slowly to make sure that this can be managed. If we get to the point where the treatments are working then of course we need to move back to as close to normal as we can without triggering a big outbreak.

I don't think it's a stretch to think that there are some kids out there, playing sports, who do not know that they have some kind of issue that might complicate this. Think Hank Gathers, that sort of thing. So if it's not done right, with testing, etc., then fine. Actually what @Techster said here sums it up perfectly:
I'm all for sports in a safe and healthy environment for fans, coaches, and especially players. If everyone is at risk, what the heck is the point? As I said before, this nation, and the world, can use sports in the worst way right now. It's usually what heals and brings us together in the time of need and tragedy. Unfortunately, we're not in a place where the current environment is safe for everyone. They're probably going to move forward with plans for playing, because greed and human stupidity never fails and usually win out. Let's cross our fingers that a vaccine or medicine to treat the infected is quickly found. Personally, it would make me sick to my stomach if one of our players got sick from this virus and passed away because he was infected from sports activities.

If there's a way to do this, by all means. It just needs to be done correctly.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
Fit 20 year olds are probably as close to zero for a severe health risk as humanly possible. There is always a risk of spreading the Flu, staff infections, etc. IIWII. There will never be a 0.000000 risk of something.
 

smokey_wasp

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5,486
Yeah, that is a bit of a hatchet job. I am guessing 99.9 percent of these kids absolutely want to play. This is what they've worked for and they have already missed out on so much during all this. Also, there are going to be guidelines in place, so it's a bit disingenuous to act like it's some kind of free for all.
 

Techster

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18,236
This is weak. Nobody would do anything ending in death if they could predict the future.

The facts regarding risk just do not justify the hysteria. You’re more at risk in Brunswick, Ga if you’re under 25 than from C19 even if you live in NYC.

Your comment lets me, as well as everyone reading, know that you totally miss the point. You're absolutely right, no one would do anything ending in death if they could predict the future. Guess what? We for a fact know that human to human contact increases the risk of infection. Infection increases your risk of hospitalization and/or death. In essence, you're saying we know these kids have a chance of increasing the probability of hospitalization or death, but hey I'm bored on Saturday, let them take their chances. Do you think if Brandon knew his chances of death increased that day by participating in that activity he would have gone forward with it? By using Brandon as an example you picked a poor example, so you should probably just stand down on that.

You're a data guy. Here's some data for you. Doctors and scientists are finding a bigger and bigger correlation between vitamin D deficiency and Covid 19 mortality rates.

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2020/...in-d-deficiency-and-covid-19-mortality-rates/

Do you know what race in America has the highest frequency of vitamin D deficiency? African Americans. It's not because of poor nutrition, but because the best way to absorb vitamin D naturally is through skin and sunlight. Well, because black people through thousands of years of evolution have darker skin, they have a harder time absorbing vitamin D naturally. Guess what race makes up the highest percentage of football players? African Americans. You're a smart guy, Liberty. I don't think you need me to connect the dots on that one.

Do you want to take this another step further? Let's do it...

In addition to vitamin D deficiency, what other factor increases the chance of hospitalization and death? Obesity:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-hospitals-challenges-much-harder/5221600002/

A growing number of studies and data on COVID-19 deaths confirm the link. The extra weight on people in the 40-plus BMI range who contract COVID-19 increases the chance they will require hospitalization, most likely in the intensive care unit. It also hampers the ability of physicians to treat them, especially with ventilators, doctors say.

Read that bolded part again. If you're not familiar with the BMI chart: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323586#bmi-charts

Essentially, that puts our OLs and DLs in the danger zone.

So if you're an African Amercian OL or DL, and you have to constantly make physical contact with people who are not subject to contact tracing...how do you feel about your chances of infection and possible hospitalization from Covid 19? From constant person to person contact from football activities, to biological predilection to vitamin D deficiency, to falling into the BMI danger zone for covid 19...well, isn't that a field full of probability landmines if you're an African American OL or DL? Heck, even if you're a caucasian OL or DL, your chances of Covid 19 hospitalization and possible death also increases.

As human beings, we have the responsibility to mitigate risk for others, not increase it.

We haven't even mentioned the long term negative effects Covid 19 has on the body once infected either.

That's OK though...they aren't someone's son, or brother, or husband, or friend. They're just a body in a uniform there for our entertainment, right? At best, this is just ignorance of the repurcussions of this virus, at worst, it's just callousness toward human life.

 

LibertyTurns

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6,216
@Techster Many of you all have been bunkered down at home waiting for this virus to pass. I’ve been at work every day with about 1000 people. We added cleaning, tried to spread workers out but at most it’s basically 3 ft apart, split shifts some, a few staff able to work from home, issued masks, stopped visitors, tried not to pack attendees into meeting spaces & have teleconferencing now, shutdown travel, etc. The #1 item we did was took the “at risk” & allowed them to choose staying at home. The “at risk” are safe, the rest of us are working with ever decreasing restrictions in place as the risk has dropped off.

We’re collaborating regularly with the hospital. Behind closed doors they’re surprisingly candid & they fully encourage re-opening as soon as politically possible with continued provisions for the at-risk. The operative word is political, their opinions are not acceptable. Many of us realize this, that we’re not making operational decisions but political ones. There’s a huge difference.

If young African Americans are dying and showing up in ICU rooms at some significant levels, it’s sure not showing up in Florida’s numbers. Again, “at risk” individuals are at risk. I’m not advocating at risk individuals returning to normal & never had. Now the rest of us just need to get moving along because what we’re currently doing in most states/areas to deal with this pandemic is just insane, unnecessary, etc.
 

jacket_fan

Ramblin' Wreck
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759
Location
Milton, Georgia
Wifey and I were walking the beagle today at a local park. On one of the football fields was some sort of quarterback camp. Maybe 20-25 kids doing drop back and passing drills with several adults in supervision. They looked to be high school kids, but it is hard for me to tell anymore. Music was playing. In the stands were what looked to me to be family members. Not sure how it was organized. But a good sized turnout and not sure how "social distanced" folks were.

However. No cops trying to arrest anyone, no park personnel running folks off.

I am sure some on here are horrified, but I liked seeing things starting to return to some sense of sanity.
 

Techster

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18,236
@Techster Many of you all have been bunkered down at home waiting for this virus to pass. I’ve been at work every day with about 1000 people. We added cleaning, tried to spread workers out but at most it’s basically 3 ft apart, split shifts some, a few staff able to work from home, issued masks, stopped visitors, tried not to pack attendees into meeting spaces & have teleconferencing now, shutdown travel, etc. The #1 item we did was took the “at risk” & allowed them to choose staying at home. The “at risk” are safe, the rest of us are working with ever decreasing restrictions in place as the risk has dropped off.

We’re collaborating regularly with the hospital. Behind closed doors they’re surprisingly candid & they fully encourage re-opening as soon as politically possible with continued provisions for the at-risk. The operative word is political, their opinions are not acceptable. Many of us realize this, that we’re not making operational decisions but political ones. There’s a huge difference.

If young African Americans are dying and showing up in ICU rooms at some significant levels, it’s sure not showing up in Florida’s numbers. Again, “at risk” individuals are at risk. I’m not advocating at risk individuals returning to normal & never had. Now the rest of us just need to get moving along because what we’re currently doing in most states/areas to deal with this pandemic is just insane, unnecessary, etc.

Do you not see the disconnect between what you said and what we're asking of SAs? Your response with the precautions you're taking at work to protect your employees and co-workers is directly opposed to what we're asking of SAs. You can't clean and disenfect after every play, you can't tell players they are not allowed to come within 3 feet another person without fundamentally changing sports itself, you can't split shifts for players and games, SAs can't practice and play games at home, SAs can't wear face mask during competition without it affecting their performance. You and your company are doing the correct thing in taking every precaution for the safety of those that work there, unfortunately, that fundamentally impossible to do in sports like football and basketball without changing it.

I don't know what hospitals you're speaking with, but I have friends that are high level adminstrators and doctors at Emory, and friends that work at the CDC in Atlanta. The information that has been relayed to a group of us is that numbers are far higher than is being reported, and decisions that are being made is from data that is either incomplete, or flat out wrong (you don't have to search too hard to find the data manipulation going on with GA and FL). You're correct, it's political...and unfortunately how good or bad that is depends on your POV.

As numbers coming out of FL in terms of ICU and deaths, I'd take it with a grain of salt. The governor down there, let's just say, would rather play hide and seek with data than be the responsible human being we expect of our elected officials:

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article242557271.html

I get it. We all want normalcy. Unfortunately, we're not dealing with a "normal" issue. As I said before, I fully expect sports to move forward because human stupidity and greed knows no bounds. All I know is the law of unintended consequences will rear its ugly head...always does. There will be lawyers...and LOTS of them.

Anyhow, it's a beautiful weekend. I'm going to go out and enjoy it...and I hope you do as well.
 

jacket_fan

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
759
Location
Milton, Georgia
Techster, I read the article you referenced about vitamin D.

The good news is that there is a solution.

“However, it is clear that vitamin D deficiency is harmful, and it can be easily addressed with appropriate supplementation.”

Bingo. Problem solved.

Also from the article you referenced on obesity.

A person who is very fit, for example, an Olympic athlete, may have a high BMI.

This does not necessarily mean that they are overweight. The excess weight, in this case, may be due to increased muscle mass.

Tech linemen are nothing but muscle right? Bingo. Problem solved.

I post this somewhat sarcastically. Wanted to point out the other side of this political situation.

The risk for infection is not zero. The risk of death is not zero. Never has been and never will be with any strain of flu. As it stands now, there is no definitive answer to the risk of death of covid 19.

https://www.biospace.com/article/mu...9-mortality-rate-may-be-lower-than-expected-/

I am sure there is data to support extremely high mortality rate too.

The other number that seems to be overlooked is the number of people who have had covid 19 and not known it. This could be the game changer.

I guess my point is that the unintended consequences have already happened with the number of peoples lives that have already been ruined by the government(s) shutting down the country. There will be unintended consequences to college football because of what has already happened. There will be unintended consequences that no matter which side of the political spectrum you are on, we will be dealing with for a long time.
 
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