The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

LibertyTurns

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@GTNavyNuke There’s lots of things we don’t get outraged about. 40k smokers per month die. More than C19. We’re not banning cigarettes. Secondhand smoke whacks another 3500 so it’s not just the smokers. We kill 55k per month with heart disease, 50k per month due to cancer, 25k per month due to obesity. As far as I know obese people and those with heart disease do not kill anyone else so they got that going for them. Smoking & obesity are probably the largest contributor to hear disease and cancer. 80-100k die from flu every year.

Nobody’s saying they don’t care about old people. Like the flu season, take precautions. My family’s doing it & it’s prudent. We shouldn’t shutter the entire country because older folks need to take more precautions, shouldn’t load nursing homes up with C19 patients, hey don’t pack the subways & buses and planes and trains, etc. Avoid large gatherings particularly if you are immunocompromised, weak health, etc. The fact this guidance is still not understood nearly 6 months in is amazing.

Government is not your answer. Common sense is.
 

GT_EE78

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The MLB mini season is in serious jeopardy right now. When/if the football season begins it's going to be difficult to keep the coronavirus out of locker rooms if students return to campus. As baseball is learning case zero can be anyone on your team or the team you are playing.
Especially when the team hangs out at the hotel bar without masks or social distancing like the Fishies did!
 

FredJacket

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I didn't say MLB, just meant the US in general. Elon Musk is 100% right that many Americans feel entitled and are complacent, especially in my view the states where we are now seeing the virus spike. (He targeted CA and NY and I'm broadening.)

In specific, people who attended political rallies or protested or went to COVID parties with no masks and got in close quarters get what they deserve IMHO. If they died or got lifelong disability, too damn bad. Unfortunately, most of those people don't get really sick but pass it on to others.

Really good facts in this https://www.hussmanfunds.com/comment/mc200730/ This is consistent with my views (I added bolding):

" Look. This thing has not suddenly gone to sleep. We’ve had 7000 U.S. fatalities from COVID-19 in just the past week. That’s more than twice the number of Americans lost on 9/11. We’ve already lost more Americans than the number of U.S. soldiers lost in World War I; more than in every war since World War II. For those who reveal their baseness of character by arguing that “it’s mostly old people,” I somehow can’t imagine they would have the same dismissive response if terrorists were lining up the same Americans and shooting them in the head. Must we really insist on protecting others only when the response involves hatred and bloodshed, but rail against every measure that involves reason and common humanity?"

One last thing I saw today. The local shipyard is projecting a spike 7-10 days after Labor Day. The college football season will be total toast if Americans over Labor Day are anything like the 4th of July. Want to bet that we change?
Thanks Nuke. I always appreciate your perspective on here. I did think you were addressing MLB specifically. Thanks for clarifying. Although.. it appears the Marlins (probably others) are learning a lesson. MLB is not dead yet. These next 2 days will decide. And the Cardinals situation is the tipping point.

 

Milwaukee

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Smoking is a behavior you engage in that generally affects only you. The risks of smoking are not equivalent to COVID-19. Not at all.
So is going out and contracting Covid. If you’re vulnerable stay tf home and you won’t get it. It’s very simple if you don’t overthink it.
 

Buzztheirazz

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Smoking is a behavior you engage in that generally affects only you. The risks of smoking are not equivalent to COVID-19. Not at all.
Yep. Not equivalent. Let’s throw alcohol in there as well. They have multi multi multi million dollar lobbies as well. Who’s starting that covid lobby?
 

FredJacket

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I don’t blame em. Craving those Louwill Lemon Pepper BBQ over here as well.
It is truly shocking that William's story wasn't what it turned out to be. This must be one fine establishment... messing with both the MLB & NBA here in pandemic times.

More bad news... this place is less than 2 miles from GT campus. 😳
 

VintageWreck

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"Who’s starting that covid lobby?"
___________________________________

Well for a start I would say the SEC and the T A&M lobby!
Good Sunday morning!
 

orientalnc

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This is from the MLB COVID-19 safety protocol:

“In order for a 2020 season to be conducted safely, Covered Individuals must exercise care while away from Club facilities to avoid situations in which the risk of contracting the virus is elevated, such as participating in activities involving large groups or indoor activities in which people are in close proximity to one another (e.g., crowded restaurants, bars, clubs). MLB will not formally restrict the activities of Covered Individuals when they are away from Club facilities, but will expect the Covered Individuals on each Club to ensure that they all act responsibly.” [“Covered Individuals” are players, coaches, managers, team officials and etc.]

In other words, MLB players, etc. are on the honor system. That's the protocol for college football except the college players will be going to class, dining facilities, etc with other students who are not following the protocol.

Maybe P5 football will last for more than two weeks, but it probably won't.
 

FredJacket

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This is from the MLB COVID-19 safety protocol:

“In order for a 2020 season to be conducted safely, Covered Individuals must exercise care while away from Club facilities to avoid situations in which the risk of contracting the virus is elevated, such as participating in activities involving large groups or indoor activities in which people are in close proximity to one another (e.g., crowded restaurants, bars, clubs). MLB will not formally restrict the activities of Covered Individuals when they are away from Club facilities, but will expect the Covered Individuals on each Club to ensure that they all act responsibly.” [“Covered Individuals” are players, coaches, managers, team officials and etc.]

In other words, MLB players, etc. are on the honor system. That's the protocol for college football except the college players will be going to class, dining facilities, etc with other students who are not following the protocol.

Maybe P5 football will last for more than two weeks, but it probably won't.
Ok... so, MLB got back together for 'summer camp' on 7/1. That's 35 days of the "honor system". For sake of argument...without picking apart if the honor system was a good idea or not... is 28 teams with no significant issue after 35 days good or not? Is the system working ... or not?
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Ok... so, MLB got back together for 'summer camp' on 7/1. That's 35 days of the "honor system". For sake of argument...without picking apart if the honor system was a good idea or not... is 28 teams with no significant issue after 35 days good or not? Is the system working ... or not?
Not sure how you define significant, but the MLB is a mess right now...

 

bobongo

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@GTNavyNuke There’s lots of things we don’t get outraged about. 40k smokers per month die. More than C19. We’re not banning cigarettes. Secondhand smoke whacks another 3500 so it’s not just the smokers. We kill 55k per month with heart disease, 50k per month due to cancer, 25k per month due to obesity. As far as I know obese people and those with heart disease do not kill anyone else so they got that going for them. Smoking & obesity are probably the largest contributor to hear disease and cancer. 80-100k die from flu every year.

Nobody’s saying they don’t care about old people. Like the flu season, take precautions. My family’s doing it & it’s prudent. We shouldn’t shutter the entire country because older folks need to take more precautions, shouldn’t load nursing homes up with C19 patients, hey don’t pack the subways & buses and planes and trains, etc. Avoid large gatherings particularly if you are immunocompromised, weak health, etc. The fact this guidance is still not understood nearly 6 months in is amazing.

Government is not your answer. Common sense is.
Point well taken, but your flu death numbers are inflated:


CDC Summaries:
SeasonDeaths
2010–201137,000
2011–201212,000
2012–201343,000
2013–201438,000
2014–201551,000
2015–201623,000
2016–201738,000
2017–2018*61,000
2018–2019*34,000
 

FredJacket

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Not sure how you define significant, but the MLB is a mess right now...

You say it is a "mess"... by my definition, it is not a mess. There are 2 teams with outbreaks...not good; but could be worse. Marlins (playing tonight) and the Cardinals (still not playing). I am one of the few (it seems) who wants to only speak to what I know to be true.

1) MLB is like any business. They want to be operating.
2) The league and the players could not agree to a bubble plan; but did agree to do what they are doing. The bubble plan simply would have been 'safer'... but what they are doing is not irresponsible (in my opinion). It is risky because it relies on everyone adhering to good safe practices regarding limiting exposure... on their honor.
3) We have no way of knowing to what extent players (Marlins and Cards, specifically) were failing to honor the honor system regarding their behavior. The statements regarding the investigation(s) into the outbreaks leads me to believe MLB believes the outbreaks might have been avoided with better 'behavior'. I don't know all they know to make a judgement on that sentiment. They've made some modifications regarding monitoring behavior and seem to be willing to 'bet' if teams act right.. they can proceed.
4) I 'believe' (not really certain) with 30 teams all under the same/similar conditions... you'd have more than 2 teams with problems/outbreaks after 30 days IF the protocols are not good enough to manage the virus. At this point, 28 teams are doing fine. ...even some covid positives (some false positives in there) with no outbreaks.
5) To be clear... I am not predicting MLB will make it until the post-season... or another week even. I just am not so certain with a clamp down by those who have been a little lax in their behavior... that we may have the worst behind us. I don't know... both possibilities exist in my mind given the info we have.
 

RonJohn

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Ok... so, MLB got back together for 'summer camp' on 7/1. That's 35 days of the "honor system". For sake of argument...without picking apart if the honor system was a good idea or not... is 28 teams with no significant issue after 35 days good or not? Is the system working ... or not?
17 of 82 games have been postponed this year. That is about 20% of all games that were supposed to have been played. If you look at the number of teams, it looks insignificant. If you look at the impact it has had to this point on the season, it is significant.

Looking at baseball, it appears that the virus is not spreading through contact on the field to other teams. The players have very seldom close contact on the field, and not for extended periods.(except maybe for the catcher) It does look like it is spreading very easily within a team once there is an infected person in the "bubble". That is with symptom checking every day and virus tests every other day.

For football there will be close contact throughout the game. In the pile for a fumble, there will be multiple people breathing hard, talking trash, etc while trying to get the ball. In those circumstances, it is likely easy for the virus to be transmitted from player to player of opposing team. The NCAA football proposals that I have seen call for symptom checks and weekly virus tests. That is not working for MLB in detecting the virus soon enough to prevent spread on the same team even with 3.5 times as many virus tests. It is extremely possible that an NCAA player could pass the Wed. virus test, but be spreading the virus by Saturday in the game.

High school football is in even worse shape. I haven't heard proposals for virus checks at all in high school unless a player shows symptoms. Since at that age they are less likely to show symptoms, it is possible that an entire team and coaching staff could be infected before anyone shows symptoms.

I hope that they are able to play NCAA football this year. I want to see the games. I will probably have sports withdrawal symptoms if they don't play. However, I haven't seen any plans that I believe would actually work for NCAA football. I can't think of any way that high school football could be safe with respect to the virus. MLB has 87 people in their tier 1 bubble on each team. They have shown that if people act responsibly that they can limit the chances of being infected, although I don't think the chance is ever zero percent. Can NCAA football with 105 players, plus coaches, plus training staff, plus academic staff, etc. maintain the same level of a "bubble"? Are they going to limit the players to: dorm room, class room, and athletic buildings? Are they going to have separate and isolated areas in class rooms for athletes to sit? Once again, I hope they are able to play. I just haven't seen any real discussions about how to maintain a "bubble" around college students who happen to play sports.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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You say it is a "mess"... by my definition, it is not a mess. There are 2 teams with outbreaks...not good; but could be worse. Marlins (playing tonight) and the Cardinals (still not playing). I am one of the few (it seems) who wants to only speak to what I know to be true.

1) MLB is like any business. They want to be operating.
2) The league and the players could not agree to a bubble plan; but did agree to do what they are doing. The bubble plan simply would have been 'safer'... but what they are doing is not irresponsible (in my opinion). It is risky because it relies on everyone adhering to good safe practices regarding limiting exposure... on their honor.
3) We have no way of knowing to what extent players (Marlins and Cards, specifically) were failing to honor the honor system regarding their behavior. The statements regarding the investigation(s) into the outbreaks leads me to believe MLB believes the outbreaks might have been avoided with better 'behavior'. I don't know all they know to make a judgement on that sentiment. They've made some modifications regarding monitoring behavior and seem to be willing to 'bet' if teams act right.. they can proceed.
4) I 'believe' (not really certain) with 30 teams all under the same/similar conditions... you'd have more than 2 teams with problems/outbreaks after 30 days IF the protocols are not good enough to manage the virus. At this point, 28 teams are doing fine. ...even some covid positives (some false positives in there) with no outbreaks.
5) To be clear... I am not predicting MLB will make it until the post-season... or another week even. I just am not so certain with a clamp down by those who have been a little lax in their behavior... that we may have the worst behind us. I don't know... both possibilities exist in my mind given the info we have.
I get where you are coming from, but you still haven't really defined what you consider significant. MLB is most likely going to have to shutter their season prematurely unless they can control these outbreaks. That's pretty darned significant in my book.
 

FredJacket

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I get where you are coming from, but you still haven't really defined what you consider significant. MLB is most likely going to have to shutter their season prematurely unless they can control these outbreaks. That's pretty darned significant in my book.
My use of significant was referencing the situation on the 28 teams with no outbreaks. The outbreaks are significant. I said the other 28 teams have had no significant issues. I hope MLB does not have to close up shop. They seem to be hovering on the edge.

...and while I am at it to speak to the thread topic of college football. I keep referencing the MLB "live experiment" because is SHOULD BE very critical to understand EXACTLY what is going on because of the implications for CFB. I happen to agree with what @RonJohn posted a few posts back... football has a much bigger problem. His post points out the biggest issues and differences. Bottom line... MLB's plan (I think) has much more frequent/rigorous testing than CFB can handle, it makes football a real concern.
 
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