The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

herb

herb

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SOWEGA Jacket said:
I’m glad there is no national plan. Let state governments and individuals make decisions based on what is best for their situation. This isn’t the plague and we don’t have bodies lining the streets. If it wasn’t for certain segments of the press we’d be living life as usual and we’d have football. But, under this climate of panic and who cares more there is no way we’ll have a season. I don’t even think the NBA will play in their big beautiful bubble because there is no way players will follow the rules and positive tests are going to keep happening. We are at the point where we will be in the state of the world is ending until a vaccine the media likes is created. Then magically it will be over.
Click to expand...

I have a prediction when that magical media liked vaccine will exist. Hint, it’s not the start of football season.
 
MidtownJacket

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I’d be curious to know what percentage of the folks who are anti-mask also believe in QAnon..

I suspect the conspiracy theory / my common sense is more valuable than the opinions of lifelong epidemiologists crowd heavily overlaps.

This isn’t meant as a shot across anyone’s bow; it is more a question to try to understand the reasoning behind people who aren’t willing to act in accordance with the medical community’s recommendations. There are reams of data backed, scientific studies from expert medical organizations talking about the severity of this specific virus beyond more common infectious agents and yet we struggle with the same “fake news” arguments I read about in the paper and shake my head sadly for.

To summarize the many points which make this more dangerous than a common flu/virus:

1) Asymptotic people can spread the disease
2) Asymptotic, as well as symptomatic, patients have shown signs of non-repairable lung damage after contracting the illness
3) This virus appears to be especially capable at infecting people via “super spreader” events where one infected person introduces significantly higher amounts of the contagion into an environment and gets exponentially more people sick than with a common cold / virus
4) We have no known vaccination or accepted treatment protocol
5) Our hospital system is, in many places including Houston, overly taxed already leading to pediatric hospitals attempting to provide overflow beds to cover our sick
6) The treatment protocols (extensive mask wearing by care givers, quarantined access preventing trusted friends / family members from interacting with patients once they begin treatment) has led to significantly higher instances of panic/hallucinations/ptsd like symptoms among patients and can’t readily be addressed in our current environment
7) In severe cases requiring intubation, the prognosis hasn’t been good

The list is longer but frankly my whiskey supply isn’t strong enough to continue beyond this.

When faced with the above list, I can not for the life of me understand why people are against an action (mask wearing) that protects the people they are around - even if minimally - from some of the worst of it. Have we really become such a vain society that we feel compelled to not do everything we can to protect each other?
 
TampaGT

TampaGT

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MidtownJacket said:
I’d be curious to know what percentage of the folks who are anti-mask also believe in QAnon..

I suspect the conspiracy theory / my common sense is more valuable than the opinions of lifelong epidemiologists crowd heavily overlaps.

This isn’t meant as a shot across anyone’s bow; it is more a question to try to understand the reasoning behind people who aren’t willing to act in accordance with the medical community’s recommendations. There are reams of data backed, scientific studies from expert medical organizations talking about the severity of this specific virus beyond more common infectious agents and yet we struggle with the same “fake news” arguments I read about in the paper and shake my head sadly for.

To summarize the many points which make this more dangerous than a common flu/virus:

1) Asymptotic people can spread the disease
2) Asymptotic, as well as symptomatic, patients have shown signs of non-repairable lung damage after contracting the illness
3) This virus appears to be especially capable at infecting people via “super spreader” events where one infected person introduces significantly higher amounts of the contagion into an environment and gets exponentially more people sick than with a common cold / virus
4) We have no known vaccination or accepted treatment protocol
5) Our hospital system is, in many places including Houston, overly taxed already leading to pediatric hospitals attempting to provide overflow beds to cover our sick
6) The treatment protocols (extensive mask wearing by care givers, quarantined access preventing trusted friends / family members from interacting with patients once they begin treatment) has led to significantly higher instances of panic/hallucinations/ptsd like symptoms among patients and can’t readily be addressed in our current environment
7) In severe cases requiring intubation, the prognosis hasn’t been good

The list is longer but frankly my whiskey supply isn’t strong enough to continue beyond this.

When faced with the above list, I can not for the life of me understand why people are against an action (mask wearing) that protects the people they are around - even if minimally - from some of the worst of it. Have we really become such a vain society that we feel compelled to not do everything we can to protect each other?
Click to expand...
After getting attacked on another Kung flu thread, I’m not going to respond to any other parts other than #5. Hospitals have been cutting hours and workers have been furloughed because they are not being overly taxed and are losing money. I don’t know about Houston but here in Fla hospitals aren’t overly taxed. I work/talk with A hospital pharmacy staff and have been told that the hospital is not that busy. You can goggle “Hospital furlough” and I’m sure you will see articles about this.
 
MidtownJacket

MidtownJacket

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TampaGT said:
After getting attacked on another Kung flu thread, I’m not going to respond to any other parts other than #5. Hospitals have been cutting hours and workers have been furloughed because they are not being overly taxed and are losing money. I don’t know about Houston but here in Fla hospitals aren’t overly taxed. I work/talk with A hospital pharmacy staff and have been told that the hospital is not that busy. You can goggle “Hospital furlough” and I’m sure you will see articles about this.
Click to expand...

That’s good to hear about your area in Florida. Unfortunately it’s not the same situation here:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...-into-Phase-2-surge-plans-as-ICU-15380224.php

That’s the local news update from yesterday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RamblinRed

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SOWEGA Jacket said:
I’m glad there is no national plan. Let state governments and individuals make decisions based on what is best for their situation. This isn’t the plague and we don’t have bodies lining the streets. If it wasn’t for certain segments of the press we’d be living life as usual and we’d have football. But, under this climate of panic and who cares more there is no way we’ll have a season. I don’t even think the NBA will play in their big beautiful bubble because there is no way players will follow the rules and positive tests are going to keep happening. We are at the point where we will be in the state of the world is ending until a vaccine the media likes is created. Then magically it will be over.
Click to expand...

IMO, not having a strong national plan has been the biggest failure in the US so far on this. When you have a crisis that is affecting the whole country you need a strong national plan to attack that process. We had nothing. And what little direction was given was largely ignored by alot of the state governments and then the citizens would not take simple steps to keep things in check.
So now we have 4 states that have more cases on a daily basis than the entire European Union and many places are going to have to go into more restrictive levels that none of us like. It's frustrating to see that of all the Western civilized nations we are really the only one that is struggling with this to the degree we are.

I believe we should have had a plan like Germany. You have strong metrics that you measure (we largely already were collecting the data), you set the limits that must be reached for any local or state level to open up. When they are hit you move forward and then you stay at that level until you make the next set of metrics. If they don't get to that level you stay where you are. If you hit a tripwire where your metrics go backwards a certain amount you put more restrictions back in place. In that way you create a system where you can open up in a rational, safe way that is unlikely to cause huge spikes. So you allow the actions to occur at a local level, but based on national standards. We tried to be the hare when we probably should have been the tortoise.

Texas is in surge routines in parts of the state, AZ has over 90% ICU utilization, as of this morning FL is at 17.22% ICU availability. 12 states have rising hospitalizations. in the SW hospitalizations increased 35% in the last week and in the SE it is 38%.
I saw a report this morning from San Antonio where they were in a hospital there. They are full and it is forcing them to start making decisions that doctors don't like to make. The doctor mentioned they had 10 calls yesterday to admit patients who were in his words 'all young' who would be good candidates for ECMO (where they pump out your blood through a tube, re-oxygenate it outside your body and then run it back in) sounds like they try to do that rather than put people on a ventilator, but he only had beds with machines for 3 people. So he had to make decisions on which three people get the most advanced care. The ER doctor mentioned that patients there are often having to stay in the ER for at least 24 hours because they don't have beds for them in the rest of the hospital.

Thankfully on a national level deaths are still declining, though the rate of decline has slowed significantly, but in both the SE and the SW death rates have started to increase. in the SE the 7 day avg cases has increased 63.5% in the last week and cases are doubling every 10 days. The 7 day avg positive test percentage has increased 20% in the SE in the last week and stands at 12%.
the 7 day avg death rate in the SW has increased 12% in the last week and 4% in the SE.

Unfortunately none of this is good. We had a fantastic jobs report today - but that is for the month of May, I expect the reports for June and July are not likely to be nearly as positive because of the last 2 weeks.

My company was planning on announcing its 3 phase strategy for re-opening its offices this week. That has been shelved indefinitely because of what has occurred. My supervisor yesterday said she doesn't expect us to return to our offices now until sometime in 2021. The 2 pools in our subdivision were closed as of yesterday because one of the life guards, who worked at both pools, tested positive for the virus.
The NBA Commissioner said it well. 'We have to learn how to live with this virus'. But some people hear that and they think that means we go back to what we were doing before. That is not what that statement means. That statement means we learn how to modify our behaviors so we can have as much freedom as possible. For the NBA that meant bringing 22 teams into a bubble. it is also likely that their next season is going to be played without fans in the stands, at least to start. We have to get to a point where we can manage this without overwhelming communities and their resources. If Europe ends up doing well then that means knocking the virus down to a degree that allows you to systematically re-open and have the ability to contain outbreaks before they spread too far.

I'm sick of this stupid virus, but it isn't going away on its own. It will only go away if we take the actions to make it go away and be less a part of our lives. Right now scientists don't even know about the immunity we will receive from this. Early studies have suggested the antibodies dissapear pretty quickly, so any immunity may be relatively short lived. But how long is that immunity, is it 6 months, is it 1 yr, 2 yrs, longer? That will play into what they have to do in terms of vaccines. If past experience with Coronaviruses ends up being predictive of this one, then we will likely not have long term immunity and will have to get new vaccine doses at regular intervals like we do for the flu. Early studies also suggest those that have milder cases get fewer antibodies than those that get sicker, so their immunity may be less. None of this is conclusive yet, but because it isn't it means we need to proceed cautiously.

As Bwelbo posted yesterday, July is already baked - at least the first couple of weeks are. If we take actions now, we should see the results 2-3 weeks from now. Until then who knows what we will see. I will add that after today I would wait until about next Wednesday before trying to get a sense of what is happening as the long Government Holiday weekend means there will likely be days with reduced numbers and others with inflated numbers depending upon when people are working, so we will need to see what is happening around Wed-Thur of next week to get a sense of if it is getting better or worse.

I hope everyone on here has a Happy July 4th Weekend and is able to safely spend time with family and friends. I don't know about anyone else but i'm looking forward to cooking on the grill this weekend.
 
stech81

stech81

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MidtownJacket said:
I’d be curious to know what percentage of the folks who are anti-mask also believe in QAnon..

I suspect the conspiracy theory / my common sense is more valuable than the opinions of lifelong epidemiologists crowd heavily overlaps.

This isn’t meant as a shot across anyone’s bow; it is more a question to try to understand the reasoning behind people who aren’t willing to act in accordance with the medical community’s recommendations. There are reams of data backed, scientific studies from expert medical organizations talking about the severity of this specific virus beyond more common infectious agents and yet we struggle with the same “fake news” arguments I read about in the paper and shake my head sadly for.

To summarize the many points which make this more dangerous than a common flu/virus:

1) Asymptotic people can spread the disease
2) Asymptotic, as well as symptomatic, patients have shown signs of non-repairable lung damage after contracting the illness
3) This virus appears to be especially capable at infecting people via “super spreader” events where one infected person introduces significantly higher amounts of the contagion into an environment and gets exponentially more people sick than with a common cold / virus
4) We have no known vaccination or accepted treatment protocol
5) Our hospital system is, in many places including Houston, overly taxed already leading to pediatric hospitals attempting to provide overflow beds to cover our sick
6) The treatment protocols (extensive mask wearing by care givers, quarantined access preventing trusted friends / family members from interacting with patients once they begin treatment) has led to significantly higher instances of panic/hallucinations/ptsd like symptoms among patients and can’t readily be addressed in our current environment
7) In severe cases requiring intubation, the prognosis hasn’t been good

The list is longer but frankly my whiskey supply isn’t strong enough to continue beyond this.

When faced with the above list, I can not for the life of me understand why people are against an action (mask wearing) that protects the people they are around - even if minimally - from some of the worst of it. Have we really become such a vain society that we feel compelled to not do everything we can to protect each other?
Click to expand...
I hate wearing a mask , do I do it, yes but still hate it. I will probably cancel my reservations to Disney because it don't want to wear a mask all day.
I wear one So others will be comfortable around me I don't do it cause I'm scared of getting virus.
And I'm fat out of shape and one it would not be good it I got it.
 
TampaGT

TampaGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
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MidtownJacket said:
That’s good to hear about your area in Florida. Unfortunately it’s not the same situation here:

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...-into-Phase-2-surge-plans-as-ICU-15380224.php

That’s the local news update from yesterday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/hou...-has-capacity-to-handle-texas-case-surge.html
Looks like that might be a single/small number of hospital issue. I read elsewhere that the state is at 50%
 
MidtownJacket

MidtownJacket

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TampaGT said:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/hou...-has-capacity-to-handle-texas-case-surge.html
Looks like that might be a single/small number of hospital issue. I read elsewhere that the state is at 50%
Click to expand...
I do know that a large majority of our cases follow population size of cities (Houston. Dallas, Austin, San Antonio) so wouldn't be surprised by 50% for the state. That doesn't help though if the hospitals within 3 hours driving distance are all full up.

They are absolutely scaling for more beds in the facilities, but the treatment protocols require 1:2 and in some cases 1:1 ratios of care givers to patients. That can be managed for a short duration, but frays the system if it is required at volume for longer periods of time.


Either way medical staff furloughs aren't happening here anytime soon.
 

ncjacket79

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Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

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RamblinRed said:
IMO, not having a strong national plan has been the biggest failure in the US so far on this. When you have a crisis that is affecting the whole country you need a strong national plan to attack that process. We had nothing. And what little direction was given was largely ignored by alot of the state governments and then the citizens would not take simple steps to keep things in check.
So now we have 4 states that have more cases on a daily basis than the entire European Union and many places are going to have to go into more restrictive levels that none of us like. It's frustrating to see that of all the Western civilized nations we are really the only one that is struggling with this to the degree we are.

I believe we should have had a plan like Germany. You have strong metrics that you measure (we largely already were collecting the data), you set the limits that must be reached for any local or state level to open up. When they are hit you move forward and then you stay at that level until you make the next set of metrics. If they don't get to that level you stay where you are. If you hit a tripwire where your metrics go backwards a certain amount you put more restrictions back in place. In that way you create a system where you can open up in a rational, safe way that is unlikely to cause huge spikes. So you allow the actions to occur at a local level, but based on national standards. We tried to be the hare when we probably should have been the tortoise.

Texas is in surge routines in parts of the state, AZ has over 90% ICU utilization, as of this morning FL is at 17.22% ICU availability. 12 states have rising hospitalizations. in the SW hospitalizations increased 35% in the last week and in the SE it is 38%.
I saw a report this morning from San Antonio where they were in a hospital there. They are full and it is forcing them to start making decisions that doctors don't like to make. The doctor mentioned they had 10 calls yesterday to admit patients who were in his words 'all young' who would be good candidates for ECMO (where they pump out your blood through a tube, re-oxygenate it outside your body and then run it back in) sounds like they try to do that rather than put people on a ventilator, but he only had beds with machines for 3 people. So he had to make decisions on which three people get the most advanced care. The ER doctor mentioned that patients there are often having to stay in the ER for at least 24 hours because they don't have beds for them in the rest of the hospital.

Thankfully on a national level deaths are still declining, though the rate of decline has slowed significantly, but in both the SE and the SW death rates have started to increase. in the SE the 7 day avg cases has increased 63.5% in the last week and cases are doubling every 10 days. The 7 day avg positive test percentage has increased 20% in the SE in the last week and stands at 12%.
the 7 day avg death rate in the SW has increased 12% in the last week and 4% in the SE.

Unfortunately none of this is good. We had a fantastic jobs report today - but that is for the month of May, I expect the reports for June and July are not likely to be nearly as positive because of the last 2 weeks.

My company was planning on announcing its 3 phase strategy for re-opening its offices this week. That has been shelved indefinitely because of what has occurred. My supervisor yesterday said she doesn't expect us to return to our offices now until sometime in 2021. The 2 pools in our subdivision were closed as of yesterday because one of the life guards, who worked at both pools, tested positive for the virus.
The NBA Commissioner said it well. 'We have to learn how to live with this virus'. But some people hear that and they think that means we go back to what we were doing before. That is not what that statement means. That statement means we learn how to modify our behaviors so we can have as much freedom as possible. For the NBA that meant bringing 22 teams into a bubble. it is also likely that their next season is going to be played without fans in the stands, at least to start. We have to get to a point where we can manage this without overwhelming communities and their resources. If Europe ends up doing well then that means knocking the virus down to a degree that allows you to systematically re-open and have the ability to contain outbreaks before they spread too far.

I'm sick of this stupid virus, but it isn't going away on its own. It will only go away if we take the actions to make it go away and be less a part of our lives. Right now scientists don't even know about the immunity we will receive from this. Early studies have suggested the antibodies dissapear pretty quickly, so any immunity may be relatively short lived. But how long is that immunity, is it 6 months, is it 1 yr, 2 yrs, longer? That will play into what they have to do in terms of vaccines. If past experience with Coronaviruses ends up being predictive of this one, then we will likely not have long term immunity and will have to get new vaccine doses at regular intervals like we do for the flu. Early studies also suggest those that have milder cases get fewer antibodies than those that get sicker, so their immunity may be less. None of this is conclusive yet, but because it isn't it means we need to proceed cautiously.

As Bwelbo posted yesterday, July is already baked - at least the first couple of weeks are. If we take actions now, we should see the results 2-3 weeks from now. Until then who knows what we will see. I will add that after today I would wait until about next Wednesday before trying to get a sense of what is happening as the long Government Holiday weekend means there will likely be days with reduced numbers and others with inflated numbers depending upon when people are working, so we will need to see what is happening around Wed-Thur of next week to get a sense of if it is getting better or worse.

I hope everyone on here has a Happy July 4th Weekend and is able to safely spend time with family and friends. I don't know about anyone else but i'm looking forward to cooking on the grill this weekend.
Click to expand...
Yeah, as someone once put it, not having a national plan and letting different states do different things is kind of like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
 
iopjacket

iopjacket

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smokey_wasp said:
Given a choice, would you guys prefer a fall season with no fans or a spring season with fans?
Click to expand...

I think that's a great idea. I am really beginning to believe we are not going to a have fall football season (fans or no fans). Spring football sounds good to me.
 
LibertyTurns

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MidtownJacket said:
I do know that a large majority of our cases follow population size of cities (Houston. Dallas, Austin, San Antonio) so wouldn't be surprised by 50% for the state. That doesn't help though if the hospitals within 3 hours driving distance are all full up.

They are absolutely scaling for more beds in the facilities, but the treatment protocols require 1:2 and in some cases 1:1 ratios of care givers to patients. That can be managed for a short duration, but frays the system if it is required at volume for longer periods of time.


Either way medical staff furloughs aren't happening here anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Not sure where you live, but the dude in Houston that got everyone riled up that made the claim they were running out of beds has already walked it back. He claimed his motives were pure and he was shocked there was such a reaction to his claim & he puffed the data to get people to take the virus more seriously. I’m not sure what universe he lives in but he was sure to generate two distinctly different reactions to his comments. It’s why businesses/organizations pay folks paid to communicate information & require everyone else to speak for themselves & not the group.
 
smokey_wasp

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