The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

orientalnc

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Something being totally ignored is the fact that Liberty University remained open after Spring Break, and they have not had a single Covid case reported on campus since then. Based on that, why is everybody else saying colleges must be closed?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...irus-disaster-now-the-model-to-follow-falwell
Liberty is doing well and that is very encouraging. They were at full enrollment when students left for Spring Break. Now they have around 900 in residence halls. There are no in person classes right now.

Students who returned to campus all had to be quarantined for two weeks, then are not allowed to leave campus without returning to quarantine. All classes are online and will be for Summer semester. From their enrollment data online, there are normally 15,000 on-campus students. Less than 1000 returned from Spring Break. Most on-campus employees are working from home or on furlough. Visitors are not allowed on campus. Is this what you would call an "open" campus?
 

BuzzStone

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Something being totally ignored is the fact that Liberty University remained open after Spring Break, and they have not had a single Covid case reported on campus since then. Based on that, why is everybody else saying colleges must be closed?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...irus-disaster-now-the-model-to-follow-falwell

Its Liberty university. Can't believe much that comes from that place. I can't even bring myself to call it a university.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Something being totally ignored is the fact that Liberty University remained open after Spring Break, and they have not had a single Covid case reported on campus since then. Based on that, why is everybody else saying colleges must be closed?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...irus-disaster-now-the-model-to-follow-falwell

Of their 8,000 students that were initially sent home, only 1060 came back, so they are able to social distance while on campus. It's not exactly like they are going full speed so claiming "victory" because of Liberty U is a bit premature...

https://www.liberty.edu/news/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=379372
  • 8,000 Approximate pre-spring break number of Liberty University students in residence halls
  • 1,060 Approximate number of students living in Liberty University residence halls as of April 15
 
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Of their 8,000 students that were initially sent home, only 1060 came back, so they are able to social distance while on campus. It's not exactly like they are going full speed so claiming "victory" because of Liberty U is a bit premature...

https://www.liberty.edu/news/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=379372
  • 8,000 Approximate pre-spring break number of Liberty University students in residence halls
  • 1,060 Approximate number of students living in Liberty University residence halls as of April 15
That was certainly not revealed by Fallwell Jr in an interview I saw with him. So he was apparently dodging telling the entire story. So thanks for the info. I will accept that info over what he said or at least implied in the interview.
 

orientalnc

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I think we should be careful to realize many people in the media, on both sides of this university reopening issue and the college football season, have political and/or financial interests in proposing or backing one plan over others. I want college football, so there is my bias. But, I have a family member who is a college athlete and I want him to be safe more than I want football on TV.
 

RamblinRed

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Deaths aren't even remotely overcounted. If you would like a very long and in-depth article on how deaths (not just COVID deaths) are counted in the US. This is really good reading. understand that a death isn't necessarily due to 1 thing, and that unwrapping it all is a very time consuming process.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-deaths/

Some comments from the article:
The experts who are involved in counting novel coronavirus deaths at all levels — from local hospitals to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — disagree with the president. If anything, they say, these deaths are undercounted.

Some of this reasoning is based on logic. We know that we had a widespread shortage of tests when people were already dying of COVID-19, so it makes sense that these two problems would overlap at times.
Other reasoning is based on data. In a lot of states the number of pneumonia deaths in March was higher than what you’d expect for that time of year, or for the level of influenza active during that time — an important detail, given that pneumonia can often be a complication of that disease as well.
Yet another reason why experts say we’re not overcounting COVID-19 deaths is that we’re now counting them in much the same way as we have always counted deaths from infectious disease. The methodology is longstanding and is used for all sorts of diseases — and there’s never been cause to think that the methodology made us overcount the deaths from those other diseases.

If you look at the CDC’s annual report of flu deaths, for example, you’ll see that it’s “estimated,” modeled on official flu deaths reported, deaths from flu-like causes reported, and what we know about flu epidemiology. The calculation is done this way precisely because public health officials know that a straight count of formally diagnosed flu deaths would be an undercount of actual flu deaths.

Likewise, when a doctor lists COVID-19 as a condition that led to someone’s death — even if it was just the last in a series of illnesses — they’re not doing anything different from what’s been done with the flu for years,
Basically, if you think COVID-19 deaths are being inflated, then you shouldn’t trust annual flu death counts, either. Or a whole host of other death counts.
If there’s any major difference between the way we count flu deaths and the way we count COVID-19 deaths, it’s that nobody is trying to publish flu deaths daily, in real time.

There is also alot of talk in this article on the CDC 'slow death' count vs the CDC 'fast death' count. Basically, counting deaths is actually difficult. The CDC is reporting 2 different stats and they are easy to confuse.

As of May 19, the CDC’s slow count was 67,008, and its fast count was 90,340.
The smaller, slow count is more accurate, but it doesn’t reflect how many people have died as of today. It’s weeks behind. The fast count does a better job of portraying the real-time situation, but the exact number will shift as state and local counts fluctuate.
All of this is why we won’t know the exact number of people who died of COVID-19 for years, Aiken said. Again, that’s nothing new. Final estimates for the number of people who died in the 2009 H1N1 pandemic weren’t published until 2011.
(my comment - keep in mind the official 'flu estimate' for each year comes out 2 years later. it is also always higher than the 'official count' number from that year - usually by a factor of 4-6X. Official death certificates for flu usually number around 8-10K per year)

Death is hard — hard to count, hard to experience. The personal and the statistical both reside in a space where the question of “what happened” can be answered as an absolute — as certain as we can ever be about a thing — while simultaneously remaining painfully inexact and mysterious.
 

orientalnc

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Deaths aren't even remotely overcounted. If you would like a very long and in-depth article on how deaths (not just COVID deaths) are counted in the US. This is really good reading. understand that a death isn't necessarily due to 1 thing, and that unwrapping it all is a very time consuming process.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-deaths/

Some comments from the article:
The experts who are involved in counting novel coronavirus deaths at all levels — from local hospitals to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — disagree with the president. If anything, they say, these deaths are undercounted.

Some of this reasoning is based on logic. We know that we had a widespread shortage of tests when people were already dying of COVID-19, so it makes sense that these two problems would overlap at times.
Other reasoning is based on data. In a lot of states the number of pneumonia deaths in March was higher than what you’d expect for that time of year, or for the level of influenza active during that time — an important detail, given that pneumonia can often be a complication of that disease as well.
Yet another reason why experts say we’re not overcounting COVID-19 deaths is that we’re now counting them in much the same way as we have always counted deaths from infectious disease. The methodology is longstanding and is used for all sorts of diseases — and there’s never been cause to think that the methodology made us overcount the deaths from those other diseases.

If you look at the CDC’s annual report of flu deaths, for example, you’ll see that it’s “estimated,” modeled on official flu deaths reported, deaths from flu-like causes reported, and what we know about flu epidemiology. The calculation is done this way precisely because public health officials know that a straight count of formally diagnosed flu deaths would be an undercount of actual flu deaths.

Likewise, when a doctor lists COVID-19 as a condition that led to someone’s death — even if it was just the last in a series of illnesses — they’re not doing anything different from what’s been done with the flu for years,
Basically, if you think COVID-19 deaths are being inflated, then you shouldn’t trust annual flu death counts, either. Or a whole host of other death counts.
If there’s any major difference between the way we count flu deaths and the way we count COVID-19 deaths, it’s that nobody is trying to publish flu deaths daily, in real time.

There is also alot of talk in this article on the CDC 'slow death' count vs the CDC 'fast death' count. Basically, counting deaths is actually difficult. The CDC is reporting 2 different stats and they are easy to confuse.

As of May 19, the CDC’s slow count was 67,008, and its fast count was 90,340.
The smaller, slow count is more accurate, but it doesn’t reflect how many people have died as of today. It’s weeks behind. The fast count does a better job of portraying the real-time situation, but the exact number will shift as state and local counts fluctuate.
All of this is why we won’t know the exact number of people who died of COVID-19 for years, Aiken said. Again, that’s nothing new. Final estimates for the number of people who died in the 2009 H1N1 pandemic weren’t published until 2011.
(my comment - keep in mind the official 'flu estimate' for each year comes out 2 years later. it is also always higher than the 'official count' number from that year - usually by a factor of 4-6X. Official death certificates for flu usually number around 8-10K per year)

Death is hard — hard to count, hard to experience. The personal and the statistical both reside in a space where the question of “what happened” can be answered as an absolute — as certain as we can ever be about a thing — while simultaneously remaining painfully inexact and mysterious.
Very well stated. This mirrors the AIDS epidemic where the counts were adjusted for several years.
 
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13,443
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Deaths aren't even remotely overcounted. If you would like a very long and in-depth article on how deaths (not just COVID deaths) are counted in the US. This is really good reading. understand that a death isn't necessarily due to 1 thing, and that unwrapping it all is a very time consuming process.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/coronavirus-deaths/

Some comments from the article:
The experts who are involved in counting novel coronavirus deaths at all levels — from local hospitals to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — disagree with the president. If anything, they say, these deaths are undercounted.

Some of this reasoning is based on logic. We know that we had a widespread shortage of tests when people were already dying of COVID-19, so it makes sense that these two problems would overlap at times.
Other reasoning is based on data. In a lot of states the number of pneumonia deaths in March was higher than what you’d expect for that time of year, or for the level of influenza active during that time — an important detail, given that pneumonia can often be a complication of that disease as well.
Yet another reason why experts say we’re not overcounting COVID-19 deaths is that we’re now counting them in much the same way as we have always counted deaths from infectious disease. The methodology is longstanding and is used for all sorts of diseases — and there’s never been cause to think that the methodology made us overcount the deaths from those other diseases.

If you look at the CDC’s annual report of flu deaths, for example, you’ll see that it’s “estimated,” modeled on official flu deaths reported, deaths from flu-like causes reported, and what we know about flu epidemiology. The calculation is done this way precisely because public health officials know that a straight count of formally diagnosed flu deaths would be an undercount of actual flu deaths.

Likewise, when a doctor lists COVID-19 as a condition that led to someone’s death — even if it was just the last in a series of illnesses — they’re not doing anything different from what’s been done with the flu for years,
Basically, if you think COVID-19 deaths are being inflated, then you shouldn’t trust annual flu death counts, either. Or a whole host of other death counts.
If there’s any major difference between the way we count flu deaths and the way we count COVID-19 deaths, it’s that nobody is trying to publish flu deaths daily, in real time.

There is also alot of talk in this article on the CDC 'slow death' count vs the CDC 'fast death' count. Basically, counting deaths is actually difficult. The CDC is reporting 2 different stats and they are easy to confuse.

As of May 19, the CDC’s slow count was 67,008, and its fast count was 90,340.
The smaller, slow count is more accurate, but it doesn’t reflect how many people have died as of today. It’s weeks behind. The fast count does a better job of portraying the real-time situation, but the exact number will shift as state and local counts fluctuate.
All of this is why we won’t know the exact number of people who died of COVID-19 for years, Aiken said. Again, that’s nothing new. Final estimates for the number of people who died in the 2009 H1N1 pandemic weren’t published until 2011.
(my comment - keep in mind the official 'flu estimate' for each year comes out 2 years later. it is also always higher than the 'official count' number from that year - usually by a factor of 4-6X. Official death certificates for flu usually number around 8-10K per year)

Death is hard — hard to count, hard to experience. The personal and the statistical both reside in a space where the question of “what happened” can be answered as an absolute — as certain as we can ever be about a thing — while simultaneously remaining painfully inexact and mysterious.
The fact remains that some deaths for other reasons in people who tested positive for Covid were likely not caused by Covid at all, and yet they are still counted. How many have been done that way, I have no idea, but it COULD be a significant number.
 

tsrich

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Fake news. The number of deaths is overstated, as testified by Birx herself, and the number of infected people is understated, as many people have had it and never been documented.
If you start your post with 'Fake news', you lose all credibility. That's become a mantra for any statistics or news that doesn't fit a preconceived narrative.
 

GT_EE78

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If you start your post with 'Fake news', you lose all credibility. That's become a mantra for any statistics or news that doesn't fit a preconceived narrative.
Nah not at all, but it does depend on which media outlet is being challenged.
 

awbuzz

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What I would like is push the season to start in March after March Madness. Assuming there is a basketball season. Would allow for the hopeful vaccine to be available by the end of the year and for fans to get vaccinated. Would also allow the regular flu season to dissipate. I would think the academic calendar could fit this. Seems to me the best shot at having a season with fans in the stands.
So two full seasons in less than 8 months? Basically August without games?
Game in April - July, no Bowl games for the delayed season, then Games September - December?

I don't see it happening.
 

RamblinRed

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Article on tOSU AD Gene Smith talking about a model where they might be able to have 20-22K at their stadium for games (it holds 102K).
https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ans-attend-football-games-ad-gene-smith-says/

Looking at most plans it seems like in general assuming we get football this fall, that we may get about 1/5 of stadium capacity as the likely number for how many will be allowed.
So probably in the neighborhood of 11K for Bobby Dodd.
 

RamblinRed

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The fact remains that some deaths for other reasons in people who tested positive for Covid were likely not caused by Covid at all, and yet they are still counted. How many have been done that way, I have no idea, but it COULD be a significant number.

This is how it is done for all deaths by disease. It's also why we have co-morbidity. More than one reason can be given for a death, there doesn't have to be just one cause.
The flu numbers for instance are modeled and the first release occurs one year after a season with a final estimate 2 years later. Also, the comparison to 50K flue deaths is somewhat misleading as that is a very high death year for the flu, the 10 year avg estimate for flu deaths is 32.5K.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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The fact remains that some deaths for other reasons in people who tested positive for Covid were likely not caused by Covid at all, and yet they are still counted. How many have been done that way, I have no idea, but it COULD be a significant number.

This was addressed earlier in the thread. Literally no one ACTUALLY dies from AIDS, yet AIDS/HIV is listed as the cause of death for hundreds of thousands of people every year, because it contributes heavily to the death by weakening the immune system.
 
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