The academic toll that nobody talks about

[dressedcheeseside]

Just saw this tweet online from Zach Laskey:

Zach Laskey ‏@theZLazer3716 Dec
If only everyday we had practice there were no classes...

It reminded me of how grueling school was at Tech when I was a student and I didn't even play football. I can't imagine trying to do both. Imagine if our players didn't have to go to class like factory players. I have no idea how a kid comes in as a true freshman and tries to acclimate to the GT academic lifestyle and football lifestyle and try to see the field.

Having one of the most rigorous schools in the country doesn't just hurt us in recruiting, it hurts us in what percentage of athletic potential we can extract from our student-athletes in practice and on Saturdays. They have to divide not only the little precious time they have between football and school, but also their mental capacity. If you don't think the mental fatigue and physical stress caused by "Ma Tech" has any bearing on our SA's on-field performance, then you didn't attend. I wonder what our win/loss record is in games following mid terms and finals. It would be an eye opener.

The human mind and body is not limitless, it only has so much it can give to any one pursuit. Dividing those resources between two equally challenging endeavors at the same time takes it's toll, I'm sure of it. Factory athletes don't have to.

 

[KlausMikaelsonTheOriginal]

Just saw this tweet online from Zach Laskey:

Zach Laskey ‏@theZLazer3716 Dec
If only everyday we had practice there were no classes...

It reminded me of how grueling school was at Tech when I was a student and I didn't even play football. I can't imagine trying to do both. Imagine if our players didn't have to go to class like factory players. I have no idea how a kid comes in as a true freshman and tries to acclimate to the GT academic lifestyle and football lifestyle and try to see the field.

Having one of the most rigorous schools in the country doesn't just hurt us in recruiting, it hurts us in what percentage of athletic potential we can extract from our student-athletes in practice and on Saturdays. They have to divide not only the little precious time they have between football and school, but also their mental capacity. If you don't think the mental fatigue and physical stress caused by "Ma Tech" has any bearing on our SA's on-field performance, then you didn't attend. I wonder what our win/loss record is in games following mid terms and finals. It would be an eye opener.

The human mind and body is not limitless, it only has so much it can give to any one pursuit. Dividing those resources between two equally challenging endeavors at the same time takes it's toll, I'm sure of it. Factory athletes don't have to.

You sure do paint with an awfully broad brush.

BTW, in an AJC article Attachou was talking about his Finite Math class that he was taking this year as a senior, the same thing GOL got slammed for, pushing the harder classes to later in a player's career when their eligibility is almost gone.

Also our FB players don't take Biology or Chemistry anymore, instead they take Earth & atmospheric Science.

IIRC Tevin did an interview with the AJC when he was a RS-junior and he was talking about taking his Survey of Calc class as a RS-Jr., not as a 1st semester freshman.

BS in Business Admin in not so rigorous that GT cannot recruit better players.

Do me a favor, list every 1st round QB from the last 8 NFL drafts.

After you do that I'll get back to you.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

You sure do paint with an awfully broad brush.

BTW, in an AJC article Attachou was talking about his Finite Math class that he was taking this year as a senior, the same thing GOL got slammed for, pushing the harder classes to later in a player's career when their eligibility is almost gone.

Also our FB players don't take Biology or Chemistry anymore, instead they take Earth & atmospheric Science.

IIRC Tevin did an interview with the AJC when he was a RS-junior and he was talking about taking his Survey of Calc class as a RS-Jr., not as a 1st semester freshman.

BS in Business Admin in not so rigorous that GT cannot recruit better players.

Do me a favor, list every 1st round QB from the last 8 NFL drafts.

After you do that I'll get back to you.

Compared to what our SA's go through academically, factory SA's don't attend class, period (figuratively). Hell, at UNC it was even shown literally. If you're trying to tell me the academic rigor our SA's face is anywhere close to the typical factory SA or even kids at Duke and Vandy, you're flat out wrong.

 

[Boomergump]

Cheese, I think you make a good point, although I hesitate to draw conclusions about what happens at other schools because I simply don't know. Judging by some of the majors I see coming across the screen on game days combined with rumors I hear, I suspect there is some truth to it. All I can tell you about my life at GT as an ME major was something like this. Get up, eat breakfast at the AA, go to my classes (all of which were morning classes starting at 8), go back to AA for lunch, head to the locker room to get changed for practice, go to the field and practice for about 3 hours, go back to the AA and shower up before eating dinner, eat dinner, go back to the fraternity house and screw off until about 8pm, study until about 11:30 or so and then sleep whether I was done with work or not. Lather, rinse, repeat. It was a grind, but a very rewarding one.

We are all talking about the toll that academics takes on sports, which is fine, but you know, it goes the other way too. I can't tell you how difficult it was at times, after a disappointing loss or an exhilarating win, to put the emotions out of your mind and immediately return to studying when you needed to. It was very tough to concentrate some times. The one thing I rarely sacrificed was sleep. My grades took a bit of a hit because I simply couldn't get all my work done with the time I had available in the waking hours. I chose to sleep though, because I knew I wouldn't be worth a crap on the field the next day if I didn't.

I wonder how many athletes travel with their books to away contests? I can't tell you the number of times I was studying on the plane or bus while the MGT majors were all screwing off. That used to chap my rear a little.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Cheese, I think you make a good point, although I hesitate to draw conclusions about what happens at other schools because I simply don't know. Judging by some of the majors I see coming across the screen on game days combined with rumors I hear, I suspect there is some truth to it. All I can tell you about my life at GT as an ME major was something like this. Get up, eat breakfast at the AA, go to my classes (all of which were morning classes starting at 8), go back to AA for lunch, head to the locker room to get changed for practice, go to the field and practice for about 3 hours, go back to the AA and shower up before eating dinner, eat dinner, go back to the fraternity house and screw off until about 8pm, study until about 11:30 or so and then sleep whether I was done with work or not. Lather, rinse, repeat. It was a grind, but a very rewarding one.

We are all talking about the toll that academics takes on sports, which is fine, but you know, it goes the other way too. I can't tell you how difficult it was at times, after a disappointing loss or an exhilarating win, to put the emotions out of your mind and immediately return to studying when you needed to. It was very tough to concentrate some times. The one thing I rarely sacrificed was sleep. My grades took a bit of a hit because I simply couldn't get all my work done with the time I had available in the waking hours. I chose to sleep though, because I knew I wouldn't be worth a crap on the field the next day if I didn't.

I wonder how many athletes travel with their books to away contests? I can't tell you the number of times I was studying on the plane or bus while the MGT majors were all screwing off. That used to chap my rear a little.

Do you think your on-field performance suffered at all due to splitting time/attention/energy/mental alertness with academics? Put another way, do you think you may have performed better if you didn't have the academic challenges and could devote more time and energy to sports/training? Did you have any performances following a big test or project due date that really sucked?

 

[Rodney Kent]

We tend to leave out the part that benefits the players. The last assessment I saw regarding the cost of a football scholarship's education was approximately $100,000 a year. I am sure this covers all aspects, but it is not cheap. They are getting a free education for their efforts. They get housing, the best meals, doctors, etal for their efforts of playing a sport that they love. They also get the best help from tutors giving of their time to help them learn their courses. I am sure there are hordes of students who would love to have this advantage. Not only this, but they have a venue to show off their athletic abilities for the professional teams for the few who get to play in the professional leagues. It is a win-win situation for all these athletes. Yes, it is harder to make the grades while practicing, but they also have all the other bonuses that go with it. Anything that comes easy is generally not good for the soul. The extra effort is good for all of them, and it serves to help keep them out of trouble.

Don't you think all the athletes who play sports in High School have to learn to study while practicing for their sports? In most cases, many of the athletes play all the sports in High School, so they have this sport's practice/studies year round. They do not get a dime for their efforts. When we went to school, very few had autos from our parents. We had to ride our bicycles to school to stay and practice the sports. Some did not even have bicycles. Many athletes had to work at jobs after school and still practice while keeping up with their studies. Don't give me all this nonsense of the extra burden of studies. They are getting a lifetime of educationj to help them if they do not make it to the pros.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

We tend to leave out the part that benefits the players. The last assessment I saw regarding the cost of a football scholarship's education was approximately $100,000 a year. I am sure this covers all aspects, but it is not cheap. They are getting a free education for their efforts. They get housing, the best meals, doctors, etal for their efforts of playing a sport that they love. They also get the best help from tutors giving of their time to help them learn their courses. I am sure there are hordes of students who would love to have this advantage. Not only this, but they have a venue to show off their athletic abilities for the professional teams for the few who get to play in the professional leagues. It is a win-win situation for all these athletes. Yes, it is harder to make the grades while practicing, but they also have all the other bonuses that go with it. Anything that comes easy is generally not good for the soul. The extra effort is good for all of them, and it serves to help keep them out of trouble.

Don't you think all the athletes who play sports in High School have to learn to study while practicing for their sports? In most cases, many of the athletes play all the sports in High School, so they have this sport's practice/studies year round. They do not get a dime for their efforts. When we went to school, very few had autos from our parents. We had to ride our bicycles to school to stay and practice the sports. Some did not even have bicycles. Many athletes had to work at jobs after school and still practice while keeping up with their studies. Don't give me all this nonsense of the extra burden of studies. They are getting a lifetime of educationj to help them if they do not make it to the pros.

Most of that I agree with and most of it has nothing to do with my assertion. The bolded part cannot be disagreed with more. In sheer time alone, GT's academic rigor creates more demands than most any other school. Mental fatigue and stress brought on by this are other factors that negatively impact athletic performance that factory kids do not have to experience. All the pluses of a GT education have nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[Boomergump]

Do you think your on-field performance suffered at all due to splitting time/attention/energy/mental alertness with academics? Put another way, do you think you may have performed better if you didn't have the academic challenges and could devote more time and energy to sports/training? Did you have any performances following a big test or project due date that really sucked?

Do be honest Cheese, I don't think so. Heck, my on the field performance suffered enough on its own merits, with or without the academic side. Besides, in my case, right or wrong, if something was going to suffer, it was going to be school. When I sacrificed something, it was in the form of closing the book and going to bed whether I was done or not. That may, or may not, be true for other kids, I can't say. I have my degree, but my GPA wasn't as good as it could have been.

 

[Boomergump]

We tend to leave out the part that benefits the players. The last assessment I saw regarding the cost of a football scholarship's education was approximately $100,000 a year. I am sure this covers all aspects, but it is not cheap. They are getting a free education for their efforts. They get housing, the best meals, doctors, etal for their efforts of playing a sport that they love. They also get the best help from tutors giving of their time to help them learn their courses. I am sure there are hordes of students who would love to have this advantage. Not only this, but they have a venue to show off their athletic abilities for the professional teams for the few who get to play in the professional leagues. It is a win-win situation for all these athletes. Yes, it is harder to make the grades while practicing, but they also have all the other bonuses that go with it. Anything that comes easy is generally not good for the soul. The extra effort is good for all of them, and it serves to help keep them out of trouble.

Don't you think all the athletes who play sports in High School have to learn to study while practicing for their sports? In most cases, many of the athletes play all the sports in High School, so they have this sport's practice/studies year round. They do not get a dime for their efforts. When we went to school, very few had autos from our parents. We had to ride our bicycles to school to stay and practice the sports. Some did not even have bicycles. Many athletes had to work at jobs after school and still practice while keeping up with their studies. Don't give me all this nonsense of the extra burden of studies. They are getting a lifetime of educationj to help them if they do not make it to the pros.

You will get no argument for me there. I didn't need the tutors all that much, but when I did, they were a God Send. The overall experience, despite the challenges, or maybe I should say, because of them directly, was extremely valuable for the rest of my life. I wouldn't want to change much. Being a student athlete is a great way to go through school. The time management side alone is priceless.

 

[Mack]

Just saw this tweet online from Zach Laskey:

Zach Laskey ‏@theZLazer3716 Dec
If only everyday we had practice there were no classes...

It reminded me of how grueling school was at Tech when I was a student and I didn't even play football. I can't imagine trying to do both. Imagine if our players didn't have to go to class like factory players. I have no idea how a kid comes in as a true freshman and tries to acclimate to the GT academic lifestyle and football lifestyle and try to see the field.

Having one of the most rigorous schools in the country doesn't just hurt us in recruiting, it hurts us in what percentage of athletic potential we can extract from our student-athletes in practice and on Saturdays. They have to divide not only the little precious time they have between football and school, but also their mental capacity. If you don't think the mental fatigue and physical stress caused by "Ma Tech" has any bearing on our SA's on-field performance, then you didn't attend. I wonder what our win/loss record is in games following mid terms and finals. It would be an eye opener.

The human mind and body is not limitless, it only has so much it can give to any one pursuit. Dividing those resources between two equally challenging endeavors at the same time takes it's toll, I'm sure of it. Factory athletes don't have to.

I remeber Curry talking on a video about on game day......tech had classes ...............

 

[Mack]

I remember Curry talking on a video about on game day......tech had classes ...............

 

[alaguy]

Do be honest Cheese, I don't think so. Heck, my on the field performance suffered enough on its own merits, with or without the academic side. Besides, in my case, right or wrong, if something was going to suffer, it was going to be school. When I sacrificed something, it was in the form of closing the book and going to bed whether I was done or not. That may, or may not, be true for other kids, I can't say. I have my degree, but my GPA wasn't as good as it could have been.

I actually agree with Cheese and Boomer.The road is ROUGH.I remember being in a SATurday a.m. class with 2 guys who were playing UTenn-- THAT afternoon.That's rough!We don't have that now but I laugh at what the factory schools offer as scholastic rigor compared to Tech.
OTOH-if something is going to suffer it will school relative to the football effort.So it might not be much of a problem for our program except for the very low level student.

 

[Minawreck]

Is Klaus Wrecks and Effect? I really can't stand to read anything written by WnE, and his delivery and statements ring eerily familiar feelings of nausea.

In any event, there is definitely some truth that the academic rigor takes its toll on your ability to perform or vice versa whichever you choose to allow. I can speak from experience as a mere Georgia Tech rower, and that's about 1/3-1/2 of the commitment football players have during the football season at least, considering we rowed fall and spring.

 

[babuka]

The academic rigor is much more prevalent in the engineering school. Architecture also. Almost no players on the team major in those. I have only seen players that major in management and science/tech/culture. I am sure management at tech is harder than other schools, but most business majors in any college complain that accounting are the hardest classes. I was a EE and took accounting as an elective and barely had to study. If accounting is one of the harder management classes and most players major in that then the academic rigor most tech students go through is unknown to the football team at large.

 

[GTJoeBrew]

I was in the AE program around the same time Sean Bedford was in it. I can tell you, he didn't get much help along the way from assistants/TA's/coaches. This may be because of the major, but he was in the library many nights when I was. I often thought about dropping out of the program, I don't know how he did it and still had time for practice. My last semester, I studied for about 5-6 hours a day in order to just pass my classes, not including the all nighters once or twice a week. I didn't even have the possibility of having enough time to practice.

 

[GTJason]

One thing that needs to be realized is just like us engineers are good at math and physics, these guys are good at football. If I was forced to play football with the Alabama football team (football equivalent of GT academics) every day at tech my academics would have likely suffered because I'm not a football player. Every once in awhile you get a Sean Bedford just like there are seemingly people in our world on the other side of the spectrum who aren't good at anything (we all work with several of them )

Whether or not you agree with me, we can all agree it takes a special person to be a student athlete at GT. The easiest class at GT is possible to fail without the right work ethic and support. Other schools can't claim that.

 

[GTJoeBrew]

One thing that needs to be realized is just like us engineers are good at math and physics, these guys are good at football. If I was forced to play football with the Alabama football team (football equivalent of GT academics) every day at tech my academics would have likely suffered because I'm not a football player. Every once in awhile you get a Sean Bedford just like there are seemingly people in our world on the other side of the spectrum who aren't good at anything (we all work with several of them )

Whether or not you agree with me, we can all agree it takes a special person to be a student athlete at GT. The easiest class at GT is possible to fail without the right work ethic and support. Other schools can't claim that.

Your right about that, I remember my first semester at Tech I took a Psychology class and Intro to AE. I thought that those would be good courses to get me into the swing of things.... I got a C in Psychology and a B in Intro. Talk about an eye opener!

 

[Stonewall]

i still think BG is right. you hone your recruiting approach, and cast the net big enough, and you can find some stud playmakers who aren't scared of the academic rigor of GT. with our O, we don't have to land 6-8 high -4/5 star kids in every class. we just need 1-2 at skill positions on O and 1-2 on the D side of the ball, IMO. over a few years, that'd start to add up.

 

[AE 87]

I probably spent more time playing bridge and hearts in the student center than sa's spend in sport, and I did fine.

 

[Rodney Kent]

I have no gripes about the task being difficult, and probably more difficult than the factory football schools. All I am stating is that there are plenty of good athletes around the nation who are capable of playing football at Tech and keeping up with the courses. When they do, they are ahead of the game compared with some of the factories. As some have stated, it is probably difficult even if you are not competing in sport's activities. If you already knew it, and it was easy for you, it is probably of less benefit to you.