Ted Roof's job

[mj claz]

Your post implied that Burnnet and Morgan were the only two P5 quality players on the team, suggesting the Wommack had no talent to work with. I listed 4 additional players who played and/or started that year, several of which are still playing in the NFL. He didn't have Johnson, Richard, or Walker, but to imply that the defense didn't have anyone who could play is not accurate.

Well that was not what I meant at all. I was saying that Burnett and Morgan were the only two NFL quality players during the 2009 season, not P5 quality. But you are being ridiculous if you are using the freshmen versions of Sweeting, Barnes, and Thomas as counterexamples to the upperclassmen versions of Johnson, Walker, and Richard just because they ended up in the NFL at some point in the distant future. Might as well include Brandon Watts who redshirted in 2009, but was drafted in 2014. Maybe I should have said All-ACC players instead of NFL quality. Make no mistake, the 2008 defense was more talented than the 2009 defense and was the reason for the significant drop off.

I can't remember anyone on the 2009 team and thinking "this guy isn't P5 quality." I'm not sure that I can point to anyone on our 2016 defense that isn't P5 quality either. I mean these guys are starters on a P5 team. All things considered, these are great football players. I didn't mean to disparage any of our players so I'm sorry if it came across that way.

 

[RonJohn]

Well that was not what I meant at all. I was saying that Burnett and Morgan were the only two NFL quality players during the 2009 season, not P5 quality. But you are being ridiculous if you are using the freshmen versions of Sweeting, Barnes, and Thomas as counterexamples to the upperclassmen versions of Johnson, Walker, and Richard just because they ended up in the NFL at some point in the distant future. Might as well include Brandon Watts who redshirted in 2009, but was drafted in 2014. Maybe I should have said All-ACC players instead of NFL quality. Make no mistake, the 2008 defense was more talented than the 2009 defense and was the reason for the significant drop off.

I can't remember anyone on the 2009 team and thinking "this guy isn't P5 quality." I'm not sure that I can point to anyone on our 2016 defense that isn't P5 quality either. I mean these guys are starters on a P5 team. All things considered, these are great football players. I didn't mean to disparage any of our players so I'm sorry if it came across that way.

We are probably both just speaking too strongly. In my opinion, it usually isn't all one thing or another. Wommack could have looked better here if he had more talent. However, if the players had not been going to the HC to try to get help with personality issues with him, he could have probably gotten more out of them also. Groh would have looked better if he had more talent. However, if his schemes didn't require as much film study as CPJ indicated in his interview, he could have probably gotten more out of them. CPJ hasn't said publicly in detail what the issues with the defense are. I don't expect him to. Maybe in 10 years he will give some insight, but it appears that historically he keeps the internal business of the team internal.

 

[mj claz]

We are probably both just speaking too strongly. In my opinion, it usually isn't all one thing or another. Wommack could have looked better here if he had more talent. However, if the players had not been going to the HC to try to get help with personality issues with him, he could have probably gotten more out of them also. Groh would have looked better if he had more talent. However, if his schemes didn't require as much film study as CPJ indicated in his interview, he could have probably gotten more out of them. CPJ hasn't said publicly in detail what the issues with the defense are. I don't expect him to. Maybe in 10 years he will give some insight, but it appears that historically he keeps the internal business of the team internal.

I agree with you that the DC makes a difference. I guess it's just a difference in opinion regarding how much of a difference the DC makes.

I'm sure Wommack had those same issues (Wommack sounded about as incompetent as it gets, frankly) in 2008, and we still had a good defense.

 

[18in32]

Obviously there are multiple factors that go into how good of a defense you will get. I'm not reducing it to ONLY talent even if my posts came across that way. My argument is that it's somewhere around 85% talent and 15% all other variables (including DC).

What a strange argument we seem to be having... I agree that players are really important! But I don't see much point to made-up allocations of importance between "talent" and "all other variables." (You know, without defensive players, the other teams scores on every snap. Does that make them 100% the most important?)

 

[Jmonty71]

No. We have a talent deficiency, it's painfully evident.

Let's say we agree that we have a talent deficiency. Roof is on year 4. Shouldn't we have better talent on the D, by now? Still falls on Roof, right?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Let's say we agree that we have a talent deficiency. Roof is on year 4. Shouldn't we have better talent on the D, by now? Still falls on Roof, right?

Have you seen the upgrade in recruiting since Roof arrived? Talent takes time to develop in some areas. The DL in particular.

My issue with your anti-Roof crusade isn't that Roof has been good. He clearly has not been so far. My issue, rather, is that you find a way to blame Roof for everything that goes wrong. Bathroom runs out of TP on gameday, well, it's because of the extra crappy Roof defense...

 

[jandrews]

Look at a ton of the teams we are playing this year as well. They have quite a few SRs on their starting lines both OL and DL. Replacing Gamble will be a challenge but our depth at DT is improving year over year. This is where we have been the weakest. The best defenses we had during CPJ time frame had good DTs. Recruiting and building relationships takes time.

 

[mj claz]

Let's say we agree that we have a talent deficiency. Roof is on year 4. Shouldn't we have better talent on the D, by now? Still falls on Roof, right?

Well if you consider that we are getting nothing out of our 2012 and 2013 classes right now except for Gamble and Davis, then I don't think you can put the blame on Roof.

As I mentioned in my original post, we return 9 next year, our best recruiting class on the team (2015) will now be upperclassmen, and we inject some highly rated recruits like Jordan Woods, Bruce Jordan-Swilling, Tre Swilling, Gentry Bonds, and whoever we close out this class with. The talent should continue to improve over the next two years.

 

[UgaBlows]

We are building GOOD quality depth on our Dline, the future is bright there imo, more worried about LB

 

[Techster]

Your post implied that Burnnet and Morgan were the only two P5 quality players on the team, suggesting the Wommack had no talent to work with. I listed 4 additional players who played and/or started that year, several of which are still playing in the NFL. He didn't have Johnson, Richard, or Walker, but to imply that the defense didn't have anyone who could play is not accurate.

If you look back at the 2008 defense, I believe everyone but the LBs saw time in the NFL in some capacity. That was a pretty talented defense, and they carried us early that season as CPJ's offense was getting its feet under them. Remember how many fumbles we would have every game? That defense was a life saver for a new offense.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

I'm not a fan of Roof but I will say that the D played excellent against VT. That doesn't erase the dumpster fire that we have been up until that game. I'm very curious to see what we look like against UVA and the Dwags but my biggest fear is that if PJ keeps Roof, we will be having this same conversation a year from now. If we are going to be successful on D, Roof has got to scrap the "bend but don't break" crap and I'm just not sure he can do that.

 

[Bogey]

Any coach needs 5-6 years to groove his recruiting and have his players playing as seniors. Ted has to play soft because of lack of speed in coverage. If we get a QB get hot against us in the next 2 games, it could be bad. Will be interesting to see how his D develops in the next 2 years.

 

[AE 87]

I'm not a fan of Roof but I will say that the D played excellent against VT. That doesn't erase the dumpster fire that we have been up until that game. I'm very curious to see what we look like against UVA and the Dwags but my biggest fear is that if PJ keeps Roof, we will be having this same conversation a year from now. If we are going to be successful on D, Roof has got to scrap the "bend but don't break" crap and I'm just not sure he can do that.

We played better against vpi. Saying we played excellent is a stretch, imo. I really suspect that them having a game like their Syracuse game is at least as likely as us actually getting our act together.

 

[Jmonty71]

Have you seen the upgrade in recruiting since Roof arrived? Talent takes time to develop in some areas. The DL in particular.

My issue with your anti-Roof crusade isn't that Roof has been good. He clearly has not been so far. My issue, rather, is that you find a way to blame Roof for everything that goes wrong. Bathroom runs out of TP on gameday, well, it's because of the extra crappy Roof defense...

I gave him credit for getting more aggressive with VT. While, there was clearly some mistakes on their side, as well. I just think Roof's style of play is outdated. I think our talent is better than what people are led to think. Ultimately, as DC, you are responsible for the D and how they play. I've seen way too many games, where our defense just wasn't prepared. UNC for one.... It's his job to have those young men prepared and ready. Is VT's O line the worst in all the ACC? Is that why we all of the sudden did well?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I gave him credit for getting more aggressive with VT. While, there was clearly some mistakes on their side, as well. I just think Roof's style of play is outdated. I think our talent is better than what people are led to think. Ultimately, as DC, you are responsible for the D and how they play. I've seen way too many games, where our defense just wasn't prepared. UNC for one.... It's his job to have those young men prepared and ready. Is VT's O line the worst in all the ACC? Is that why we all of the sudden did well?

Your reply just proved my point. You say you gave him credit, then immediately take that credit away.

We were "more aggressive" but they "clearly made mistakes" which was great because "Roof's style of play is outdated." Then you ask "Is VT's O line the worst in all the ACC? Is that why we all of the sudden did well?"

Again, no one is saying Roof is the best DC or that our defense is acceptable. We are asking that you give him a chance to get his DL established and see how he does. You've been unwilling since day 1 to cut him any slack, and at this point, it's almost comical.

 

[mj claz]

I gave him credit for getting more aggressive with VT. While, there was clearly some mistakes on their side, as well. I just think Roof's style of play is outdated. I think our talent is better than what people are led to think. Ultimately, as DC, you are responsible for the D and how they play. I've seen way too many games, where our defense just wasn't prepared. UNC for one.... It's his job to have those young men prepared and ready. Is VT's O line the worst in all the ACC? Is that why we all of the sudden did well?

Not sure what "outdated" defense means. If you are talking about bend don't break then I would say that he is doing it out of necessity. I don't think Roof is a "bend don't break" guy like CPJ is an "option" guy.

If every one of our players were draft eligible at the end of the season, we would not have a player drafted. I would venture to guess that there aren't any good power 5 defenses where that is the case.

 

[AE 87]

Not sure what "outdated" defense means. If you are talking about bend don't break then I would say that he is doing it out of necessity. I don't think Roof is a "bend don't break" guy like CPJ is an "option" guy.

If every one of our players were draft eligible at the end of the season, we would not have a player drafted. I would venture to guess that there aren't any good power 5 defenses where that is the case.

It's not clear from this post that you understand there is a lot of room between where we are as a D and having all kinds of players drafted. The complaint is not that we're not the best. It's that we're nearly the worst in several categories.

... fwiw, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gamble drafted

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Not sure what "outdated" defense means. If you are talking about bend don't break then I would say that he is doing it out of necessity. I don't think Roof is a "bend don't break" guy like CPJ is an "option" guy.

If every one of our players were draft eligible at the end of the season, we would not have a player drafted. I would venture to guess that there aren't any good power 5 defenses where that is the case.

AJ Gray would be drafted. Of that I am certain. Your larger point remains valid.

 

[mj claz]

It's not clear from this post that you understand there is a lot of room between where we are as a D and having all kinds of players drafted. The complaint is not that we're not the best. It's that we're nearly the worst in several categories.

... fwiw, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gamble drafted

I'm not defending the defense this year. It's bad. My opinion is that given our roster, a "better" DC could maybe improve us only marginally. I admit I hate how telegraphed our blitzes look. I'm just not ready to move on from Roof for reasons I've previously stated.

Our 2009-2015 defenses were not great defenses, but they all had a couple more impact guys like Attaochu, Gotsis, etc. Two or three impact guys realistically isn't enough to be a great D, but they go a long way. I think that is that area you are referring to as the "room between where we are now and having all kinds of players drafted."

 

[AE 87]

I'm not defending the defense this year. It's bad. My opinion is that given our roster, a "better" DC could maybe improve us only marginally. I admit I hate how telegraphed our blitzes look. I'm just not ready to move on from Roof for reasons I've previously stated.

Our 2009-2015 defenses were not great defenses, but they all had a couple more impact guys like Attaochu, Gotsis, etc. Two or three impact guys realistically isn't enough to be a great D, but they go a long way. I think that is that area you are referring to as the "room between where we are now and having all kinds of players drafted."

Cool. No worries. At a certain point, these kind of discussions often boil down to too many unknowns or too few equations. I'm less sympathetic to the arguments that it's talent when I've seen so many or our players make camps. I know that it doesn't make them all-conference, but it suggests to me that we should be better than the below average we've been.

I get it that others don't see it the same way.