Stansbury Seat Temperature

[GTLorenzo]

Let's think about the length of the contract for a moment...we're in Year 4 right now. If we had negotiated a 5-year contact, we would have already had to extend his contract or fire him (one no one would have wanted to do and the other which is premature). I think if Collins had been fired after last year (FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN BAD BEHAVIOR), we would have had a real problem finding a new coach we'd have been happy with. With a 7-year contact with the buy-out lowering each year, we've effectively given him a 5-year contract with a 2-year extension already built in. The 6th and 7th year are built on a multiplier of the first 5 years, which is lower than would have been if he was given a 2-year extension after Year 3/Year 4 (for recruiting purposes).

The more I think about it, the more brilliant the 7-year contract was, knowing the first 2-3 years were going to be rough.

How's that for a stirring of the proverbial pot?

If he has a 5 year contract, he is fired after last year with 9 wins in 3 years and clearly in over his head. You could have gotten a new coach who would've said "I'm not following Johnson, he's got some players, I can make this work from here."

 

[yeti92]

Lot of presumption here...

Sure, but a pretty reasonable one. His only other option was to stay at Temple and keep getting paid much less. Nobody else was interested in him.

 

[JacketFan137]

So do you think Collins would have turned down a 5 year deal ? (We’re all playing hypotheticals btw)

yeah i do. he got hired late into a recruiting cycle and was being tasked to rebuild the offense in a major way. as much as “the greatest rebuild” is memed at this point that was not a lie regardless if it was hyperbolic in nature.

it was always going to take 3/4 seasons to really get enough guys in for it to be HIS team, so accepting a 5 year deal would probably make it feel like there’s a good chance he does all this work only to have it taken away from him the second he builds the roster he needs.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Say no more fam. Would you put your John Hancock on the biggest contract of your career without having a full understanding of what was being agreed to?

No one is saying that. No one.

 

[yeti92]

That's revisionist history. The CGC hire was almost universally praised as a great hire for GT, and everyone was aware then it was a 7 year contract. If your "high level industry expert" has a registered opinion somewhere, I'd love for you to link it here. Otherwise, anecdotal evidence is easily obtained from almost anyone breathing warm air these days.

I seem to recall a lot of people upset with the contract from the get go on here, my memory may be foggy though.

 

[yeti92]

No one is saying that. No one.

Your comment certainly seems to be implying he didn't have a full understanding of the contract and was just told "this is a good contract" by a team from the GTAA.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Sure, but a pretty reasonable one. His only other option was to stay at Temple and keep getting paid much less. Nobody else was interested in him.

Not really. That presumption is predicated on agents for both sides that are completely inept. The likelihood of that being the case approaches zero.

Your second sentence is presumptive as well. Your presumptions are likely driven by bias, as it is no secret you are not a fan of CGC, which I get. I am not an overall fan of his coaching style either, but I try to stick to facts in my posts, and not allow my distaste for certain things like "money down" to ruin heathy debate.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I seem to recall a lot of people upset with the contract from the get go on here, my memory may be foggy though.

I just looked through the original contract threads. A few were upset. Most weren't. Mostly the upset ones were the hardcore option fans that were really turned off by CGCs early, and unfortunate, verbal gaffes in how he referenced the preceding 11 years of GT football. (which I understand)

 

[yeti92]

Not really. That presumption is predicated on agents for both sides that are completely inept. The likelihood of that being the case approaches zero.

Your second sentence is presumptive as well. Your presumptions are likely driven by bias, as it is no secret you are not a fan of CGC, which I get. I am not an overall fan of his coaching style either, but I try to stick to facts in my posts, and not allow my distaste for certain things like "money down" to ruin heathy debate.

Who else was after him then? I didn't see his name tied to any coaching search other than ours, and as previously stated, Temple fans were not sad to see him go.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Your comment certainly seems to be implying he didn't have a full understanding of the contract and was just told "this is a good contract" by a team from the GTAA.

It was a good contract. My comment say he didn't negotiate it himself, as has been implied throughout this thread.

 

[yeti92]

I just looked through the original contract threads. A few were upset. Most weren't. Mostly the upset ones were the hardcore option fans that were really turned off by CGCs early, and unfortunate, verbal gaffes in how he referenced the preceding 11 years of GT football. (which I understand)

Fair enough.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Who else was after him then? I didn't see his name tied to any coaching search other than ours, and as previously stated, Temple fans were not sad to see him go.

Some temple fans were sad to see him go. There were many who weren't.

 

[GTLorenzo]

Not really. That presumption is predicated on agents for both sides that are completely inept. The likelihood of that being the case approaches zero.

Your second sentence is presumptive as well. Your presumptions are likely driven by bias, as it is no secret you are not a fan of CGC, which I get. I am not an overall fan of his coaching style either, but I try to stick to facts in my posts, and not allow my distaste for certain things like "money down" to ruin heathy debate.

Based on GT's history with coaching contracts and dealing with the NCAA, I would think that it would be fair to say that we have a fair to average chance of having inept legal counsel on our side.

 

[yeti92]

It was a good contract. My comment say he didn't negotiate it himself, as has been implied throughout this thread.

Disagree that it was a good contract, although we have all made our points on that by now and nobody is changing their opinion.

Sure, like you described he wasn't sitting at a table with Geoff figuring it out, but he surely was heavily involved in determining the length and value of the contract. If not, that is a serious issue.

 

[g0lftime]

Any high profile job should have a sense of urgency for success with some level of insecurity. Otherwise complacency can set in without motivation for improvement or innovation.

 

[g0lftime]

I

Disagree that it was a good contract, although we have all made our points on that by now and nobody is changing their opinion.

Sure, like you described he wasn't sitting at a table with Geoff figuring it out, but he surely was heavily involved in determining the length and value of the contract. If not, that is a serious issue.

It was a good contract if you are Geoff Collins.

 

[GTLorenzo]

I
It was a good contract if you are Geoff Collins.

 

[TooTall]

The first guy through the door was always gonna take the most bullets. You can't recruit to a new offense if you're running the old offense. You can't run the old offense because the boosters forbid it. Name another program that does a coaching change before signing day, and the new coach is FORCED to keep the old coaches recruits. No coach in their right mind would have taken the job with those requirements without the security a 7 year, post year 4 buy-out drop that CGC got. His number one priority as a husband and father is to provide for his family. Mission accomplished when pen met paper. He's been over coming the other "obstacles" even since. Don't forget $75,000,000.00 of the AI2020 that was over the $125,000,000.00 was for use by AD where he saw fit. Some of that has gone to increase in construction cost for the New Edge, and some went to the football staff in the form of assistants and analysts.

 

[GTLorenzo]

The first guy through the door was always gonna take the most bullets. You can't recruit to a new offense if you're running the old offense. You can't run the old offense because the boosters forbid it. Name another program that does a coaching change before signing day, and the new coach is FORCED to keep the old coaches recruits. No coach in their right mind would have taken the job with those requirements without the security a 7 year, post year 4 buy-out drop that CGC got. His number one priority as a husband and father is to provide for his family. Mission accomplished when pen met paper. He's been over coming the other "obstacles" even since. Don't forget $75,000,000.00 of the AI2020 that was over the $125,000,000.00 was for use by AD where he saw fit. Some of that has gone to increase in construction cost for the New Edge, and some went to the football staff in the form of assistants and analysts.

No one is suggesting that he run the same offense, but he should've used at least some sort of run based offense rather than trying to pass the ball all of the time with QBs who couldn't pass the ball effectively. And four - five years at around $3+ million per year should be fine in taking care of his family I would think.

 

[yeti92]

The first guy through the door was always gonna take the most bullets. You can't recruit to a new offense if you're running the old offense. You can't run the old offense because the boosters forbid it. Name another program that does a coaching change before signing day, and the new coach is FORCED to keep the old coaches recruits. No coach in their right mind would have taken the job with those requirements without the security a 7 year, post year 4 buy-out drop that CGC got. His number one priority as a husband and father is to provide for his family. Mission accomplished when pen met paper. He's been over coming the other "obstacles" even since. Don't forget $75,000,000.00 of the AI2020 that was over the $125,000,000.00 was for use by AD where he saw fit. Some of that has gone to increase in construction cost for the New Edge, and some went to the football staff in the form of assistants and analysts.

So we had at least $75mil available? But I keep seeing comments about us not having the money to fire CGC or hire a new staff? Even if we spent $15mil buying out Geoff and the rest of the staff, $60mil sure seems like it would be enough to provide a substantial upgrade.