Spread Option Offense Part 1

nodawgs

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Zone read 101:

The WR comes in motion pre-snap. The lineman step down the line of scrimmage then block whoever is in front of them. The QB does a mesh with the WR. Can keep or give depending on how the defense is aligned.


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Wrong. The OLine will work in tandem on a down lineman, and work up to the LBer. Calls have to be made based on fronts and techniques. The QB is giving the ball unless the backside DLineman who is unaccounted for crashes down.
 

jwsavhGT

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I admit I have no knowledge about the intricacies of spread option offense but reading through all the various posts it seems that you guys can't agree on what is what.:whistle:
 

gtg936g

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Zone blocking is not about blocking an area. Zone blocking is a series of 2 OLinemen blocking 1 down lineman, while reading the LBer. The 2 OLinemen try to drive the DLineman into the 2nd level. Whichever way the LBer goes, one of the OLinemen will chip off and block that particular LBer. Depending on the front and formation, you will have up to 3 of these double teams across the front, all chipping to one of 3 LBers.

In a traditional inside zone play, the backside defensive end will go unblocked by OLinemen, so the fullback will block the overhang (DE). When there is no fullback to block the DE, the QB can run the zone read play to basically "block" the DE without even touching him. If said DE does not respect the qb and pinches down to support the run, the QB will pull the ball and keep it.

This is not always true (zone blocked weakside screens vs a 3-4 defense for example), which is why I used the word area. I am indicating that unlike an assignment to a particular player, they have an area as well as a method they block by. It can be a very complex system, especially when you set the sidewalk in the screen game. I did not want to confuse anyone that the only plays that are zone blocked are option plays. As stated above the blocking is more closely associated with passing.
 
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gtg936g

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I admit I have no knowledge about the intricacies of spread option offense but reading through all the various posts it seems that you guys can't agree on what is what.:whistle:

We have diverted from the original topic, no doubt. I hope the discussion is at least interesting though. All coaches on all levels disagree about the best way to do things. They also disagree on many offensive and defensive concepts. My hope is that we will all learn something we did not already know from all the discussion.
 

stylee

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Did nodawgs really claim the inside zone wasn't around until the 1990s?

I spend a lot of time on coaching forums. People aren't laughed at when they refer to what we do as a spread option.

CPJ has referred to his system as a spread option since the 1980s, well before the RichRod line of "spread options" were born.
 

nodawgs

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I admit I have no knowledge about the intricacies of spread option offense but reading through all the various posts it seems that you guys can't agree on what is what.:whistle:

Since I used to coach football for a living, you would think that some on here would listen. It's MUCH more complex than anyone on here knows. I'm done trying to explain.
 

nodawgs

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Did nodawgs really claim the inside zone wasn't around until the 1990s?

I spend a lot of time on coaching forums. People aren't laughed at when they refer to what we do as a spread option.

CPJ has referred to his system as a spread option since the 1980s, well before the RichRod line of "spread options" were born.

Yes I did, and it was developed in the NFL. Zoning a down lineman has been around for a while, but the inside outside zone plays did not emerge until the late 90's. Please, please show me CPJ running the zone read at Hawaii 15 years before it was invented. I'll be waiting!
 

stylee

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I didn't say CPJ was running the zone read. I said he has been calling his system a "spread option" for years - before the rise of the RichRod line of spread options.

Check yourself.
 

nodawgs

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I didn't say CPJ was running the zone read. I said he has been calling his system a "spread option" for years - before the rise of the RichRod line of spread options.

Check yourself.

It's not a spread, and you must be hanging out on wing T forums. Everything looks like a spread to them.
 

stylee

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Your reading comprehension is pretty woeful. I'll stop, as I like the general peaceful tenor of this board.
 

gtg936g

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upload_2014-1-13_11-7-12.png


So this is from the Hawaii playbook ~1988, along with a few option run/pass option plays. I have no idea if he intended the zone scheme to confuse the defense, or if he realized the zone blocking potential on a run play. Defenses were a bit different then too. Either way the OL is zone blocking (albeit different than today, the read was the playside LB, the pass options were the WR. Today it is implemented (usually the read key would be the DE or DT), and blocked differently, but the zone read concepts have been around a long long time.
 

stylee

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That's zone pass blocking...blocking an area instead of a man. We still do that (with "turn back" protection too), but it's not the inside/outside zone scheme with regards to the running game
 

nodawgs

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That's zone pass blocking...blocking an area instead of a man. We still do that (with "turn back" protection too), but it's not the inside/outside zone scheme with regards to the running game

Agree with Stylee here. Turn back protection is used on the rollout passes that we run.
 

gtg936g

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That's zone pass blocking...blocking an area instead of a man. We still do that (with "turn back" protection too), but it's not the inside/outside zone scheme with regards to the running game


These were run pass options off the LB. We do still do that for pass protection, I assume it was done in this case for the ability to throw the ball down the field if the look was right. I was just showing that CPJ has had zone blocking techniques for run plays since the 80s. You will not see the same play the Eagles run in his playbook, but the concepts (however weird looking now) existed a while back.

I will be the first to admit zone blocking has advanced a long ways, and is still doing so. The roots of it, like the TO, go back a ways.
 

stylee

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We do run an inside zone running play though - the zone dive. I did a fairly basic write-up on it on Jim's old site.

Because of our RB'd tighter proximity to the LOS, his "break point" for cutting back is much closer than an I-formation back's. And because we aren't primarily a zone team, our OLs sophistication with regard to blocking rules isn't as great as many other teams'.

However, our zone dive IS a zone run and is an essential constraint play for us. Every "flexbone"/spread option coach has it in his Sainted Six of required plays for this offense.

I know I repped the hell out of it with my teams. I always wished I could have a line that was super-proficient at it AND our veer stuff - Alex Gibbs meets Paul Johnson - but you can only do so much in practice
 

stylee

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Page 30 of my PDF copy of the GaSouthern playbook defines "Zone" blocking as "a playside blocking scheme. PSLinemen step at 45* to the outside and play what comes thier [sic] way. "

Page 54 of the book shows 22-23, a zone running play. Playside linemen zone, backside linemen scoop.
 

ATL1

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We do run an inside zone running play though - the zone dive. I did a fairly basic write-up on it on Jim's old site.

Because of our RB'd tighter proximity to the LOS, his "break point" for cutting back is much closer than an I-formation back's. And because we aren't primarily a zone team, our OLs sophistication with regard to blocking rules isn't as great as many other teams'.

However, our zone dive IS a zone run and is an essential constraint play for us. Every "flexbone"/spread option coach has it in his Sainted Six of required plays for this offense.

I know I repped the hell out of it with my teams. I always wished I could have a line that was super-proficient at it AND our veer stuff - Alex Gibbs meets Paul Johnson - but you can only do so much in practice

I'm curious could we implement zone blocking and add stretch plays to this type of O. This could be a way to create cut back lanes for the tailback.
 

stylee

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We have a "stretch" type play but it is not blocked as an outside zone. We ran that play a fair amount with Dwyer and Allen, a few times with Laskey, and not much with Sims.

The issue with making it an outside zone stretch is you just don't have enough space as the BB. We have cutbacks for the BB on our inside zone/zone dive - the BB can hit anywhere between the tackle's butt and the center's butt, depending on the blocking - but I think it's just a little much for the outside.

I did it some, but my teams were running this offense from the pistol
 

ATL1

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We have a "stretch" type play but it is not blocked as an outside zone. We ran that play a fair amount with Dwyer and Allen, a few times with Laskey, and not much with Sims.

The issue with making it an outside zone stretch is you just don't have enough space as the BB. We have cutbacks for the BB on our inside zone/zone dive - the BB can hit anywhere between the tackle's butt and the center's butt, depending on the blocking - but I think it's just a little much for the outside.

I did it some, but my teams were running this offense from the pistol

Is that something that could be implemented in this offense. Also what was the benefit of running your plays out the pistol as opposed to under center. The reason I ask is that Custis mentioned during his recruitment about the diamond formation and I remember the Redskins running zone stretch plays out the diamond. I guess you answered my question in that it's not run out the flexbone.
 
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