So who leaves? Attrition.

vamosjackets

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
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Techster said:
There's 2 arguments here and you seem to have mixed them together:

1. Is it right for schools to pull scholarships of SAs while they still have eligibility and said athlete is doing the things asked of them even if they don't turn out to be the players the coaches thought when they're recruited?
ABSOLUTELY NOT. Never have I said GT should pull scholarships if kids don't perform on the field, and if you look at my posting history, I have repeatedly stated SAs should be allowed to finish out their degree requirements once they sign with a school. Pulling scholarships before kids are done with school is shameful. I hope I didn't mince words and I'm clear where I stand there.

2. Does GT "process" kids and practice other parts of the unsavory side of college athletics?
Whether you or I like it or not, GT is doing what they need to do to compete. Maybe it's not to the level of 'Bama or Ohio State or whatever large factory school, but there is plenty out there pointing to GT not being as clean as we'd all want. Processing SAs? Refer to the former SAs who have shared their experience with past GT coaches. Pay to play? If you look hard enough, there are stories that suggest some of this is going on. Pushing kids along that don't have any business at GT just because they can do things with a football or basketball? You have to be naive to think we're only recruiting scholars...there's a reason 90+% of our SAs are non-engineering majors.

Just because I pointed out certain things that may burst some bubbles about GT does not mean I can't believe in what's right and what's not right. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You're trying to hold an institution to a standard (yours?) that belongs to an organization (NCAA) that's looking the other way as long as their sacred cash cows (see: blue bloods/factory schools) can still pump $$$$ out of their udders. Let's not pretend to hold sacred the "student athlete" when the body governing the schools, and the schools themselves have made it clear that the "athlete" part is more important to them than the "student" part. You don't have to look any further than what's going on with college basketball currently. Let's also not put the SA/school relationship on a pedestal. Both sides of the relationship is just a means to an end. The whole F'ing thing is a charade, and we're the suckers.

Do I care? ABSO****INGLUTELY. Does integrity matter? ABSO****INGLUTELY.

The reality is, we're arguing over something that matters MUCH less to them (NCAA, member/schools) than it does to us. What are the choice here? We can hold our noses up, quit supporting our school, quit watching college sports, and go on with our lives because in some way it will make us feel better about meeting our moral code? Are you willing to pay that price? If you're not, then I suggest you get off your soapbox because you're supporting the very practices that you deem morally questionable.
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I want to understand what you’re saying. I feel like there’s a lot of self-contradiction in what you wrote, but it’s quite possible I’m just not understanding you.
Is this what you’re saying:
It’s not right for schools to revoke players’ scholarships just because they aren’t good enough to see the field, nor is it right to cheat by paying under the table. Georgia Tech does this. Even though GT does this, I’m going to support GT anyway because everybody does it. I care about right and wrong and integrity a great deal, but not enough to stop being a fan of a program who shows disregard for those things.

As far as "paying the price". That's exactly why I'm writing all these time-consuming posts. I'm trying to figure out if there is a price to pay. Don't I have to figure that out (and shouldn't I) before I decide whether or not to pay that price?
 
Techster

Techster

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vamosjackets said:
I want to understand what you’re saying. I feel like there’s a lot of self-contradiction in what you wrote, but it’s quite possible I’m just not understanding you.
Is this what you’re saying:
It’s not right for schools to revoke players’ scholarships just because they aren’t good enough to see the field, nor is it right to cheat by paying under the table. Georgia Tech does this. Even though GT does this, I’m going to support GT anyway because everybody does it. I care about right and wrong and integrity a great deal, but not enough to stop being a fan of a program who shows disregard for those things.

As far as "paying the price". That's exactly why I'm writing all these time-consuming posts. I'm trying to figure out if there is a price to pay. Don't I have to figure that out (and shouldn't I) before I decide whether or not to pay that price?
Click to expand...

You seem to want to put things in two distinct boxes. What's "right", and what's "wrong". The reality is, there's more grey out there than black or white.

It's pretty simple, and let's make it easy. Say GT is wholly innocent of everything some suggest is happening. No "processing" players. No pay to play. No pushing players through the school for their abilities even though they have no business at GT. Let's, for the sake of not getting further into any arguments, make GT the true North of all that's right and pure. Great right?

Well, GT is a member if the NCAA, correct? That's an inarguable fact. GT is also a member of the ACC, correct? That's an inarguable fact. Does GT receive money from the NCAA and ACC? Yes, another inarguable fact.

Well, now we have a problem...actually, your "right" and "wrong" black/white soapbox rant has a problem. On one hand, you are blasting all that's wrong and unholy about certain practices that's going on with how schools behave, all the while GT is benefitting (in the form of tens of millions of $$$ every year) from being a member of institutions (NCAA, ACC) whose members have been documented and are known to practice the very things YOU are damning. GT can not hold itself up as the model of all that's right with college sports with one hand, but accept "dirty" money with the other. It's a sanctimonious slippery slope, isn't it? Further, if you want to say that "I never said GT is the model of all that's right", well then you just answered your own question. You don't need to figure out whether you should "pay the price"...it's time you start paying and leave the world of GT sports behind. If GT isn't the model of all that's right, then GT must be doing something wrong. The degree of which GT is "wrong" doesn't matter if framed by your argument. GT is either right or wrong. As long as GT continues to accept money made by institutions whose member schools are known to practice the very things you are damning, GT is no longer the clean virgin some want to believe, regardless if GT is participating in those things or not. Can you spot the hypocrisy? It's the priest vilifying the whorehouse next door during the week, but accepting the whorehouse's money on Sunday.

So whether you understand my "contradiction" or not, it doesn't matter, and I don't care if you do. How you want to frame it personally is your problem to deal with. However, with regards to GT, whether GT is creating dirty money or receiving dirty money it's the same end. If you are holding yourself to the same standards you're trying to hold everyone else to...then I wish you well leaving us all to dirty ourselves in the world of college and GT sports. We all know the price you are paying. However, if you do not wish to hold yourself to the same standards you are holding everyone else to, then at that point you may want to look up the word "hypocrisy".
 

Animal02

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Techster said:
You seem to want to put things in two distinct boxes. What's "right", and what's "wrong". The reality is, there's more grey out there than black or white.

It's pretty simple, and let's make it easy. Say GT is wholly innocent of everything some suggest is happening. No "processing" players. No pay to play. No pushing players through the school for their abilities even though they have no business at GT. Let's, for the sake of not getting further into any arguments, make GT the true North of all that's right and pure. Great right?

Well, GT is a member if the NCAA, correct? That's an inarguable fact. GT is also a member of the ACC, correct? That's an inarguable fact. Does GT receive money from the NCAA and ACC? Yes, another inarguable fact.

Well, now we have a problem...actually, your "right" and "wrong" black/white soapbox rant has a problem. On one hand, you are blasting all that's wrong and unholy about certain practices that's going on with how schools behave, all the while GT is benefitting (in the form of tens of millions of $$$ every year) from being a member of institutions (NCAA, ACC) whose members have been documented and are known to practice the very things YOU are damning. GT can not hold itself up as the model of all that's right with college sports with one hand, but accept "dirty" money with the other. It's a sanctimonious slippery slope, isn't it? Further, if you want to say that "I never said GT is the model of all that's right", well then you just answered your own question. You don't need to figure out whether you should "pay the price"...it's time you start paying and leave the world of GT sports behind. If GT isn't the model of all that's right, then GT must be doing something wrong. The degree of which GT is "wrong" doesn't matter if framed by your argument. GT is either right or wrong. As long as GT continues to accept money made by institutions whose member schools are known to practice the very things you are damning, GT is no longer the clean virgin some want to believe, regardless if GT is participating in those things or not. Can you spot the hypocrisy? It's the priest vilifying the whorehouse next door during the week, but accepting the whorehouse's money on Sunday.

So whether you understand my "contradiction" or not, it doesn't matter, and I don't care if you do. How you want to frame it personally is your problem to deal with. However, with regards to GT, whether GT is creating dirty money or receiving dirty money it's the same end. If you are holding yourself to the same standards you're trying to hold everyone else to...then I wish you well leaving us all to dirty ourselves in the world of college and GT sports. We all know the price you are paying. However, if you do not wish to hold yourself to the same standards you are holding everyone else to, then at that point you may want to look up the word "hypocrisy".
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What a load of BS to justify "win at all cost"
 
Em_Jae20

Em_Jae20

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Was gonna give my 2 cents but...
giphy.gif
 
85Escape

85Escape

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bobongo said:
Thanks for your answer. "I am not renewing your scholarship". That's clear.
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Isn't it: "I am not renewing your Athletic Scholarship to play football." ? They are being offered the opportunity to go to Tech under a scholarship, and as the one writing a check to GT every semester for a kid's education, that ain't nothing.
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

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85Escape said:
Isn't it: "I am not renewing your Athletic Scholarship to play football." ? They are being offered the opportunity to go to Tech under a scholarship, and as the one writing a check to GT every semester for a kid's education, that ain't nothing.
Click to expand...
I hope u young guys can out last these old guys.
They never stop.


.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
Techster said:
You seem to want to put things in two distinct boxes. What's "right", and what's "wrong". The reality is, there's more grey out there than black or white.

It's pretty simple, and let's make it easy. Say GT is wholly innocent of everything some suggest is happening. No "processing" players. No pay to play. No pushing players through the school for their abilities even though they have no business at GT. Let's, for the sake of not getting further into any arguments, make GT the true North of all that's right and pure. Great right?

Well, GT is a member if the NCAA, correct? That's an inarguable fact. GT is also a member of the ACC, correct? That's an inarguable fact. Does GT receive money from the NCAA and ACC? Yes, another inarguable fact.

Well, now we have a problem...actually, your "right" and "wrong" black/white soapbox rant has a problem. On one hand, you are blasting all that's wrong and unholy about certain practices that's going on with how schools behave, all the while GT is benefitting (in the form of tens of millions of $$$ every year) from being a member of institutions (NCAA, ACC) whose members have been documented and are known to practice the very things YOU are damning. GT can not hold itself up as the model of all that's right with college sports with one hand, but accept "dirty" money with the other. It's a sanctimonious slippery slope, isn't it? Further, if you want to say that "I never said GT is the model of all that's right", well then you just answered your own question. You don't need to figure out whether you should "pay the price"...it's time you start paying and leave the world of GT sports behind. If GT isn't the model of all that's right, then GT must be doing something wrong. The degree of which GT is "wrong" doesn't matter if framed by your argument. GT is either right or wrong. As long as GT continues to accept money made by institutions whose member schools are known to practice the very things you are damning, GT is no longer the clean virgin some want to believe, regardless if GT is participating in those things or not. Can you spot the hypocrisy? It's the priest vilifying the whorehouse next door during the week, but accepting the whorehouse's money on Sunday.

So whether you understand my "contradiction" or not, it doesn't matter, and I don't care if you do. How you want to frame it personally is your problem to deal with. However, with regards to GT, whether GT is creating dirty money or receiving dirty money it's the same end. If you are holding yourself to the same standards you're trying to hold everyone else to...then I wish you well leaving us all to dirty ourselves in the world of college and GT sports. We all know the price you are paying. However, if you do not wish to hold yourself to the same standards you are holding everyone else to, then at that point you may want to look up the word "hypocrisy".
Click to expand...

I love a message board where we can use whorehouses as part of a legitimate illustration. What a time to be alive!
 
85Escape

85Escape

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I've avoided getting into this mess, as it is a typical internet morality debate in which the core values of the sides differ so greatly that the common ground is difficult to find. But I did want to provide my encouragement to @vamosjackets to not give up on GT.

Human institutions (including the Institute) are made up of humans, who we can all ( I believe) agree are highly fallible and imperfect. It is only natural that those institutions will also be broken.

Governments, churches, social clubs, charitable organizations, political movements...I can think of no single organization that is not flawed and failed to live up to the standard to which they aspire. Institutions are collections of people, and like risks, I think that human weakness combines multiplicatively rather than additively.* But that doesn't justify discarding the good that these institutions do.

The same for the people in your life. We do not abandon those we care about because they are imperfect. To do so would be to walk away from everyone and abandon all hope, which I personally believe is the very definition of evil.

If you are aligned with the values and core goals of an organization, the flaws of that institution are no more of reason to abandon it than should the many failures of our friends, families, and neighbors justify shunning them. Simply put, only by participating in and with those things we love can we possibly hope to affect positive change with them.

We are all broken and fall short in some way. I hope my friends stick with me, even in my darkest moments, to encourage me, hold me accountable and help me be a better man. That is the definition of a friend, and I would posit the definition of a fan.

Hang in there. Get involved. Make a difference. Go Jackets!

*If I ever get a Law named for me (like Godwin above), I hope it is this: "None of us is as dumb as all of us." :)
 
bobongo

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85Escape said:
Isn't it: "I am not renewing your Athletic Scholarship to play football." ? They are being offered the opportunity to go to Tech under a scholarship, and as the one writing a check to GT every semester for a kid's education, that ain't nothing.
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I don't know what it is. I asked a question and it was, to my thinking, unequivocally answered by a former player, one with first-hand knowledge. Now are you saying the scholarships are being renewed, only not to play football? That is not the answer I was given by ibeballin. He said some players were told, "I am not renewing your scholarship". Period.

The whole thrust of my question is whether players are being told their scholarships and roster spots are being pulled, or just the roster spots? Which is it? The answer I was given is clear - it is the scholarship that is being pulled.
 
Ibeeballin

Ibeeballin

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6,080
The central argument of this exhausting thread that has become uber-redundant and convoluted (who said anything about us pay players?) is no longer who is leaving but how they are leaving. Whether it’s by force or choice. What i don’t get from the selective morality/integrity crew,

bobongo said:
That is exactly, precisely, the question I have.
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This question has been answered numerous times in this uber-redundant and convoluted (who said anything about us pay players?) thread
 
GTballer21

GTballer21

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
285
Whiskey_Clear said:
Kinda like how you demanded video of Key? Lolol
Click to expand...

You claimed in the Key thread that he negative recruited, and said a lot of bad things about Tech without providing any proof. Just spouting your opinion of him and bashing him because of something you “heard” without any factual information.

You claim in this thread that we’re processing kids, and pulling their scholarship. You were not in the room with the coaches so you do not know what was said. From my understanding they can still stay in school at Tech, they are just not going to play football so they are given a choice... Stay (and attend school on a non-athletic scholarship) or leave to play somewhere else.

Nobody here knows how it went down, but many people have provided you proof that this has happened for many years, and you still refuse to accept the facts.

Based on what you’re saying in this thread, and the Key thread it sounds like you have an agenda to :poop: on the new regime whenever you have the chance. You are allowing your opinion to trick your understanding of the facts.
 
stech81

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I have no problem with a coach calling a player in and letting him know if he wants to see the field it would be best for him to move on. Not crazy about a coach pulling a players scholarship as long as the player is following the rules and giving 100% at practice and the off season workouts, if not then I have no problem with pulling his scholarship. As far as I can tell CGC has NOT done anything unethical and is only following the rules. If I go back and look we have had a lot more players leave in the past than so far this year.
Tech fans are funny people and hard to satisfy, in the past after the spring game we have players leave and have to start the season with less than 85 scholarship players. People would complain and want to know why we didn't use all are scholarships. To me it looks like we have a coach that understands the recruiting game lets wait and see how it works out.
For the very few who don't think telling a player he won't see the field is wrong than don't complain when we lose to Duke or have 38,000 at a home game. I really liked CPJ but CGC is the coach now and all I have seen is he is doing what it takes to get Tech back to the top of the ACC.
 
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