Should Hall Retire? (Poll)

[Alanjay]

Showcase baseball began with Perfect game. The more perfect game events you play the higher your ranking. If you play for East Cobb, Canes or Team Elite you are ranked higher by default. If you check the PG profiles for all the Tech players you will notice that they all played a ton of PG events. When was the last time Coach Halls staff found a diamond. A guy who couldn't afford to play PG events but is perhaps more hard nosed than current players because he hasn't had everything given to him. It actually isn't just Coach Halls staff that has fallen into this trap. See Clemson, FSU, USC( until they went a different direction this year - tranfer portal). The recruiters who only call these showcase clubs for recruits and don't actually go and see the kid play multiple times are simply Lazy. Coach Burrell fails because he only looks at the numbers. Ex: spin rare eff, mph etc. These are tools mlb teams use to draft kids but most of these kids don't make it to MLB. Much like Tech pitchers of the recent years, they simply can't throw the ball where it needs to go when they want and certainly can't throw multiple pitches for strikes. Give me 12 pitchers that throw 88 -90 but can locate 3 pitches for strikes in any count and I guarantee you I win more games than 20 guys that throw 95mph without control. I hope you can see my point.

That has been my experience with some of the kids I know that were fairly high ranked. They would play Perfect game tournaments every weekend and always go to a Showcase at least several times a year.

 

[slugboy]

Batt has had most of the season to take a pulse of the program. He’s probably had time to figure out the next coach, including hiring from within, and he’s surely discussing it with donors.
If Batt is ready and he’s aligned the big donors, then yes. But only if he has the coach of the future ready (internal promotion as a possibility)

 

[eokerholm]

I'm going to have to wax a little bit here on both sides. Yes the pay to play to be ranked thing does exist. But Velo is king when it comes to pitchers. You don't even have to play. There were guys ranked higher than C with less tournaments as long as their velo was higher. Didn't look at command, or season stats.... If a kid threw 95 at a carnival showcase, immediately ranked higher. Sometimes never even played a game or pitched against a person. Even if they didn't pitch for over a year, kids would maintain their rank based on rumor mill, etc. Even if injured and didn't have to defend or re-earn their rank. For the kids that would consistently play and play well, good stats, outings, etc. It makes sense and these coaches have to use something to whittle. Some don't get too much credence to it and that is fair. But rank will get your attention or buzz or a write up or tournament summary or highlight will get your attention and put someone on Radar. If they threw on the gun it mattered more than the 38 IP and 0.0 ERA across multiple national tournaments. Now East Cobb does play more and usually better people as the org consistently goes deep into tournaments. I do think you'll see less younger showcases with the new recruitment rules (Thank God!) and no more 8th and 9th graders who haven't pitched in HS or played varsity getting offers, or keeping them.

So I do disagree on the East Cobb fluff. Same for Canes and the other big org names. Hand on a bible....Christian's East Cobb team could easily beat GT in a series, withOUT a doubt, if not sweep.

DBO and others do travel and go to the circuits. He saw Christian pitch a perfect game in Jupiter his Junior year at WWBA as were a ton of coaches at the big events. You can't blame them. Why wouldn't you attend a nearly local tournament with teams traveling into ATL or Jupiter or Ft Meyers or Hoover from all over the country and see 10s to 100s of guys if you wanted in a weekend vs traveling to a BS high school game to see horrific coaching and play. Yeah, you guys have Buford nearby, but in general HS ball SUCKS!!! Defense, office, catching.... BAD!! Lakepoint or East Cobb makes it too easy to take in a few games, even simultaneously to check out and see multiple studs. The coaches would leave during the fall or spring to go see guys. They were always recruiting at GT, which is good for them to keep ear to the ground and eyes on the radar. I do think it is easy to get lazy and ONLY go to the big events and PG stuff, and I don't blame them.

You never saw many if any east coast teams or scouts in Texas. We had to travel east and that is why Christian's tenure on East Cobb was crucial to his exposure. PG stats.

With the horrible officiating, $hitty mounds, abysmal defense and ridiculously inferior catching/framing, etc. he is still performing quite well, sitting 90-91 T92-93. With a 5 week residency at Tread Athletics in June/July that should be sitting 92-93 and touching 95 going into summer. Might be playing in the Coastal Plains league.

Season: 41IP 28H 14BB 30SO 14R 11ER 2.41 ERA 1.02 WHIP and should end the season at or near 50 IP which will prove himself, again and hopefully land him back in the ACC or the Big 12 or AAC.

GT does know how to work the portal and quietly.
You don't see a lot of press about it, but GT is very very good at grabbing gems from the portal. Moreso than most.

You guys knew I'd have to say something.....hope that sheds some light....

 

[GTRambler]

I agree with eokerholm.

By the way, Perfect Game is not the only organization involved in travel baseball.

There is no singular governing organization in travel baseball. Rather, there are several organizations and facilities that host tournaments with varying criteria. Some of the dominating travel baseball organizations include Triple Crown Sports, Perfect Game, Untied States Specialty Sports Association (USSSA), and Amateur Athletic Union (AAU).

For those interested, I suggest a good Google search about “travel baseball” — it is amazing how much one can discover on the subject.

For example:

Eight Fields of Dreams for Youth Baseball Tournaments

With many amazing baseball fields to choose from nationwide, eight venues stand out as grandest of the grand.

sportsplanningguide.com

Of course, there are thousands of other baseball fields all over the nation where travel baseball tournaments are regularly played. The above link simply lists “the grandest of the grand,” as it states.

Here’s another link that provides a good description of travel baseball, in general:

Travel Baseball: The Ultimate Guide for Parents and Players

This guide explains everything you need to know about travel baseball — from how much it costs to how to pick the right team for your son or daughter.

thehittingvault.com

 

[griffin mizell]

I'm going to have to wax a little bit here on both sides. Yes the pay to play to be ranked thing does exist. But Velo is king when it comes to pitchers. You don't even have to play. There were guys ranked higher than C with less tournaments as long as their velo was higher. Didn't look at command, or season stats.... If a kid threw 95 at a carnival showcase, immediately ranked higher. Sometimes never even played a game or pitched against a person. Even if they didn't pitch for over a year, kids would maintain their rank based on rumor mill, etc. Even if injured and didn't have to defend or re-earn their rank. For the kids that would consistently play and play well, good stats, outings, etc. It makes sense and these coaches have to use something to whittle. Some don't get too much credence to it and that is fair. But rank will get your attention or buzz or a write up or tournament summary or highlight will get your attention and put someone on Radar. If they threw on the gun it mattered more than the 38 IP and 0.0 ERA across multiple national tournaments. Now East Cobb does play more and usually better people as the org consistently goes deep into tournaments. I do think you'll see less younger showcases with the new recruitment rules (Thank God!) and no more 8th and 9th graders who haven't pitched in HS or played varsity getting offers, or keeping them.

So I do disagree on the East Cobb fluff. Same for Canes and the other big org names. Hand on a bible....Christian's East Cobb team could easily beat GT in a series, withOUT a doubt, if not sweep.

DBO and others do travel and go to the circuits. He saw Christian pitch a perfect game in Jupiter his Junior year at WWBA as were a ton of coaches at the big events. You can't blame them. Why wouldn't you attend a nearly local tournament with teams traveling into ATL or Jupiter or Ft Meyers or Hoover from all over the country and see 10s to 100s of guys if you wanted in a weekend vs traveling to a BS high school game to see horrific coaching and play. Yeah, you guys have Buford nearby, but in general HS ball SUCKS!!! Defense, office, catching.... BAD!! Lakepoint or East Cobb makes it too easy to take in a few games, even simultaneously to check out and see multiple studs. The coaches would leave during the fall or spring to go see guys. They were always recruiting at GT, which is good for them to keep ear to the ground and eyes on the radar. I do think it is easy to get lazy and ONLY go to the big events and PG stuff, and I don't blame them.

You never saw many if any east coast teams or scouts in Texas. We had to travel east and that is why Christian's tenure on East Cobb was crucial to his exposure. PG stats.
View attachment 14319

With the horrible officiating, $hitty mounds, abysmal defense and ridiculously inferior catching/framing, etc. he is still performing quite well, sitting 90-91 T92-93. With a 5 week residency at Tread Athletics in June/July that should be sitting 92-93 and touching 95 going into summer. Might be playing in the Coastal Plains league.

Season: 41IP 28H 14BB 30SO 14R 11ER 2.41 ERA 1.02 WHIP and should end the season at or near 50 IP which will prove himself, again and hopefully land him back in the ACC or the Big 12 or AAC.

GT does know how to work the portal and quietly.
You don't see a lot of press about it, but GT is very very good at grabbing gems from the portal. Moreso than most.

You guys knew I'd have to say something.....hope that sheds some light....

 

[griffin mizell]

Tech at one time fell into the East Cobb recruiting trap,believe not so much now.You are right about the velocity,one 95 but cannot pitch and they still are looked at no matter what.

 

[g0lftime]

Tech at one time fell into the East Cobb recruiting trap,believe not so much now.You are right about the velocity,one 95 but cannot pitch and they still are looked at no matter what.

We had a kid from Durham like that several years ago, Neighbordal (sp?). He had a great fastball but struggled with control his entire career. He was considered a can't miss out of HS. Not sure if he ever played pro ball.

 

[Killerbees🐝]

Going back to the original question, I think GT has a conflict with coaching styles. Ramsey had an interview a while back about his FSU playing days and they asked him if he benefited by not playing much his freshman year. He said he learned to be a good/better teammate, but nothing prepares you like being out on the field. I think Ramsey would be playing with the line up more if he was in charge. Hall is very dedicated to the veteran guys, even in slumps. Very rarely pinch hits anyone. All this is assuming Hall owns the line up card of course.

 

[ibeattetris]

I'm not going to respond to the poll because I really don't have an opinion (my only opinion is that I think coaches get too much credit/take too much heat the majority of the time).

I do want to say, if Hall is "retired" after this season, that will be three head coaches Batt will have needed to hire 3 coached in less than 6 months. That's a lot of change for the first months of a new job.

 

[g0lftime]

I'm not going to respond to the poll because I really don't have an opinion (my only opinion is that I think coaches get too much credit/take too much heat the majority of the time).

I do want to say, if Hall is "retired" after this season, that will be three head coaches Batt will have needed to hire 3 coached in less than 6 months. That's a lot of change for the first months of a new job.

May say something about the state of the men's athletic programs at GT.

 

[GT33]

@eokerholm Appreciate your candor and unvarnished commentary, sir.

I wish your son all the best. Wish he was still at GT where we could witness his development first hand, but he will most assuredly find success in life with the cogent advice you're providing him.

 

[4shotB]

May say something about the state of the men's athletic programs at GT.

I agree with your comment. You have to do, however, what is necessary. Unless the constraints won't let you do that. These problems seem familiar to me. What is NOT familiar is the scale in terms of managing salaries and buyouts relative to the bottom line. I never had to let anyone go whose termination package was anything but a very small % of the bottom line so the decisions wern't as complicated. If he were to churn the men's BB (hoops), FB and BaseBall Coach in short order upon his arrival would definitey represent a paradigm shift in our AD. One that would make me, and perhaps many others of us older alums who were used to a "play it safe and close to the vest" mentality amongst the leadership (sic) that we have endured since Rice left.

 

[NewEnglandTransplant]

It is absolutely time and has been time for awhile for Coach Hall to move on and enjoy retirement. New leadership and energy is needed. The three big "name" sports football, basketball and baseball have all substantially underperformed in recent years and changes in football and basketball have injected new life into the programs. Mr. Batt, it is time to go for the trifecta of change. Coach Hall is a class act and should be dismissed with both substance and dignity.

 

[Quietman6520]

Just to give some clarification on the comment of the guys played many PG Events. Affordability isn’t an issue with that because if your travel team wants you to be at the event, and playing for them, they will make sure that you are. I’ve known plenty of kids whose parents cannot afford those events and their travel team took care of them being at the event.

Thank you for proving impermissible benefits. I know the big Organizations provide airfare and accommodations for certain kids while they are playing. Does not receiving these benefits before college void your amateur status ? Seems pretty straight forward to me. My point is this. The recruiters are beholding to these organizations more so than you realize. They direct kids to certain schools. They tell xyz school " I'll send you Johnny but you'll have to take Joe too ". And these types of deals are hard to break once you go down that road. I played baseball at GT and won 2 acc titles. I sent a recruit to Tech a few years back and he won an acc title. That's 3 of the 9 titles Tech has in their history. From my perspective, I don't like what Tech has become. Russ Chandler is one of the most beautiful ballparks in the country with the latest technology and yet we can't fill it up ? People want to see teams that play unselfishly and for each other with passion.

 

[4shotB]

From my perspective, I don't like what Tech has become.

can you elaborate a bit on this? From your resume it sounds like you are certainly a bit more qualified to comment on the topic than most.

 

[MWBATL]

can you elaborate a bit on this? From your resume it sounds like you are certainly a bit more qualified to comment on the topic than most.

I am curious as well. From the outside looking in it looks like a simple case (if that's the right term) of terrible pitching (whether that be recruiting or development, I am not close enough or smart enough to judge). Both come down to Coaching, imho.

But your resume would provide a much different perspective most on this board would appreciate hearing, imho.

 

[4shotB]

I am curious as well. From the outside looking in it looks like a simple case (if that's the right term) of terrible pitching (whether that be recruiting or development, I am not close enough or smart enough to judge). Both come down to Coaching, imho.

But your resume would provide a much different perspective most on this board would appreciate hearing, imho.

I am intrigued by the thought that some of our more respected coaches had an operating philosophy/management style that had an Achilles heel of sorts, For CCG, he couldn't quite get it together on the offensive side. For CPJ, he seem incapable of fixing his defense or finding someone who could. For CBC, he leaned heavily on recruiting blue chip athletes and never had a squad with a lot of bench strength. With CDH, it appears that developing pitchers (or selecting good pitching coaches) is his weak spot. He certainly has had the most time at the helm to take corrective actions. However, it seems to appear that in sports, unlike our professional careers, you need several years (seasons) worth of data before taking corrective action. I would argue that in our careers, you generally knew within 1 year (give or take) what you had when you made a hire.

 

[Quietman6520]

I am curious as well. From the outside looking in it looks like a simple case (if that's the right term) of terrible pitching (whether that be recruiting or development, I am not close enough or smart enough to judge). Both come down to Coaching, imho.

But your resume would provide a much different perspective most on this board would appreciate hearing, imho.

Let's start by saying that Russ Chandler is not a pitcher friendly park. A starting pitcher that can accomplish a 4.5 ERA for Tech would be sufficient to win a lot of games at Tech. You need contrast in pitching styles to accomplish this effectively. For example, if all my starters throw 92-94 and are RH there's a pretty good chance that even if the 1st starter is successful that the next 2 will not be. If Tech recruited a RHP that threw 78-80 mph but threw lots of cutters and maybe 2 or 3 different curves at varying speeds they would be crushed in recruiting rankings because this player would not be ranked. In today's world hitters train to hit velo and have lots of problems adjusting. This type of pitcher would set up your 92-94 RHP to be very successful in the next start. Most prospective Pitchers are identified early on by velo only. They are ranked higher as a result of arm strength not pitchability. I've personally seen 3 Tech pitching recruits in the past couple of years and they all had common traits. They all threw hard 92-94mph but with very little command of the fastball and no ability to throw offspeed for consistent strikes and certainly lacked the ability to throw the offspeed when behind in the count. These type of recruits are dangerous because they often arrive on campus injured and can't help your team or they can't unlearn how they've always pitched and have very unsuccessful Tech baseball careers. BTW I'm not a fan of the shift in baseball. Nothing more deflating for your pitcher than a routine ground ball getting thru because of a shift.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Let's start by saying that Russ Chandler is not a pitcher friendly park. A starting pitcher that can accomplish a 4.5 ERA for Tech would be sufficient to win a lot of games at Tech. You need contrast in pitching styles to accomplish this effectively. For example, if all my starters throw 92-94 and are RH there's a pretty good chance that even if the 1st starter is successful that the next 2 will not be. If Tech recruited a RHP that threw 78-80 mph but threw lots of cutters and maybe 2 or 3 different curves at varying speeds they would be crushed in recruiting rankings because this player would not be ranked. In today's world hitters train to hit velo and have lots of problems adjusting. This type of pitcher would set up your 92-94 RHP to be very successful in the next start. Most prospective Pitchers are identified early on by velo only. They are ranked higher as a result of arm strength not pitchability. I've personally seen 3 Tech pitching recruits in the past couple of years and they all had common traits. They all threw hard 92-94mph but with very little command of the fastball and no ability to throw offspeed for consistent strikes and certainly lacked the ability to throw the offspeed when behind in the count. These type of recruits are dangerous because they often arrive on campus injured and can't help your team or they can't unlearn how they've always pitched and have very unsuccessful Tech baseball careers. BTW I'm not a fan of the shift in baseball. Nothing more deflating for your pitcher than a routine ground ball getting thru because of a shift.

I am glad you brought this up. Lack of roster diversity is pervasive in professional baseball, especially with my Yankees.

It looks like Tech is following a similar model where they identify recruits based on a limited set of metrics (velocity and spin rate for pitchers, exit velocity and launch angle for batters) without a thought of how the lineup or staff will fit together. By having diversity across your lineup, it is less likely that a pitcher will shut down your entire lineup. Similarly, if your pitchers have diversity of speeds, spin rates, pitches, arm angle, etc., it is more likely you can have greater success against any given lineup. I think it is an important to note that how metrics are used to shape pitchers pitch selection and placement has evolved since CDB was with the Yankees. Back then, they were still figuring about how to best use the data and they were not very successful (see Sonny Gray for one of their worst instances of screwing up a pitcher based on the merics.) My gut is that CDB has not evolved to use the data correctly to help pitchers maximize their performance, and is hurting our program immensely because he has not figured it out yet.

By the way, lack of diversity is also what led to the significant downturn in batting average against the shift as players could not adjust their swings to hit the open holes on the other side of the infield. The only reason why teams shifted so much is because so many players could not hit em where they ain't. I find the new MLB rules banning the shift stupid. Outside of the pitcher being on the rubber and catcher being in his box, you should be able to play the other seven fielders anywhere in the field. Heck, Satchel Paige used to tell all his fielders to play on one side of the field and could still induce outs. You want to beat the shift, then hit it in the hole, do not ban it. It more players did that, then shift would not as prevalent as it is.

 

[GTRambler]

My son-in-law, who is the head coach of a Divsion III baseball team, tells me that far too many high school pitchers pitch too much and throw their arms off, especially when they play travel ball during the summers when school is out.

He also tells me that pitcher is the hardest of all positions to recruit reliably and dependably enough.

“It’s mostly a crap shoot,” he says. “You just hope to make your best judgement, and then once you get them in, you hope you can develop them — and handle and manage them —well enough to turn them into successful pitchers at the college level.”