Season in review.

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
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2,113
This is the result of Research and a decision reached 40 years ago.

And that’s why the stadium was red. We have a small fan base and are not even attempting to get Georgia families here. It’s not changing even with double digit wins. GT has turned loyal long standing fans against them just by who they reject and accept. UGA has started this as well the last few years but they are still such a large school that they have enough fans to fill their dump. But, they are also losing loyal families by their acceptance policies. It’s human nature to get po’d when a family member does everything right and taxes are paid and then a kid from Illinois or New Jersey get that spot. It makes no sense in the long term. Eventually GT will rue the day they tuned their nose at this state. Eventually, the BOR will simply tear it down piece by piece. The engineering program at UGA is just one step in the process.
 

AlabamaBuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,051
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Hartselle, AL (originally Rome, GA)
This is my very summarized opinion of what my take is at this point - it is an opinion, and I don't offer it as fact:
  • Offense did not really improve or get worse in my opinion (too many ups and downs)
  • But, with such a patchwork O line, it is really difficult to assess - I do believe that Key did a good job of improving the offensive line, based on what was available to him
  • Defense seemed to wear down a bit over the season, as it would make sense that would happen, with such limited depth and size on the DL
  • The defensive backfield is the major highlight of the team - they had very few fundamental breakdowns during the season
  • Our punter is solid, but we knew that - we worked him a little too much :)
  • Our kicker(s) looked bad this year on FG attempts, but I blame this on coaching - you go with a kicker that gets it done in the game situations, until he does not get it done
  • Special teams were myeh basically - not terrible, probably a little better in general than previous years, but not consistent either
  • Recruiting, although so far a step up for sure (and the transfers that could not play this year will definitely help), is still not showing the kind of commitments for the DL and OL that are needed (enough of them - and the high 3 star or 4 star talent), but this is difficult for any non-football factory, especially on the DL - just a numbers game - not enough big nasties to go around
  • Fan base has definitely not grown in 2019 - at least not the ones that attend and spend - hoping this can change over the next few years
I would be surprised next year if we win 4 or more games with our schedule. If the coaching performs miracles, a bowl game could be had, but I think it would require some superb coaching. Now, I say all of this with the background of seeing our offensive skill players this year (especially QB) in this P-nut offense. Maybe, if a QB steps up (and his talent around him makes a monumental leap upward), a coaching miracle would not be required to get to 6 wins. I will continue to believe that CGC needs a play calling/play design genius for his OC, especially at GT.

This is what I see - I also hope and pray that CGC is growing and learning as he goes, because with only 2 years of HC experience, he still had a lot to learn - he must be willing to change when change is needed - flexibility to see what works and what does not work is CRITICAL. This includes his asst. coach decisions (hirings and firings) going forward.
 

Jmonty71

Banned
Messages
2,156
This is my very summarized opinion of what my take is at this point - it is an opinion, and I don't offer it as fact:
  • Offense did not really improve or get worse in my opinion (too many ups and downs)
  • But, with such a patchwork O line, it is really difficult to assess - I do believe that Key did a good job of improving the offensive line, based on what was available to him
  • Defense seemed to wear down a bit over the season, as it would make sense that would happen, with such limited depth and size on the DL
  • The defensive backfield is the major highlight of the team - they had very few fundamental breakdowns during the season
  • Our punter is solid, but we knew that - we worked him a little too much :)
  • Our kicker(s) looked bad this year on FG attempts, but I blame this on coaching - you go with a kicker that gets it done in the game situations, until he does not get it done
  • Special teams were myeh basically - not terrible, probably a little better in general than previous years, but not consistent either
  • Recruiting, although so far a step up for sure (and the transfers that could not play this year will definitely help), is still not showing the kind of commitments for the DL and OL that are needed (enough of them - and the high 3 star or 4 star talent), but this is difficult for any non-football factory, especially on the DL - just a numbers game - not enough big nasties to go around
  • Fan base has definitely not grown in 2019 - at least not the ones that attend and spend - hoping this can change over the next few years
I would be surprised next year if we win 4 or more games with our schedule. If the coaching performs miracles, a bowl game could be had, but I think it would require some superb coaching. Now, I say all of this with the background of seeing our offensive skill players this year (especially QB) in this P-nut offense. Maybe, if a QB steps up (and his talent around him makes a monumental leap upward), a coaching miracle would not be required to get to 6 wins. I will continue to believe that CGC needs a play calling/play design genius for his OC, especially at GT.

This is what I see - I also hope and pray that CGC is growing and learning as he goes, because with only 2 years of HC experience, he still had a lot to learn - he must be willing to change when change is needed - flexibility to see what works and what does not work is CRITICAL. This includes his asst. coach decisions (hirings and firings) going forward.
As for the fan base. Winning really fixes a lot of things. Do you really think Ugag would have a packed stadium, if they weren't good? I remember going to a game, in the late 80s/early 90s, when Ugag was having some down years. Can't remember the year. Think they won 6, that year. But, the stadium was 1/2 full.
 

BonafideJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
201
As for the fan base. Winning really fixes a lot of things. Do you really think Ugag would have a packed stadium, if they weren't good? I remember going to a game, in the late 80s/early 90s, when Ugag was having some down years. Can't remember the year. Think they won 6, that year. But, the stadium was 1/2 full.
Aside from the myriad of puzzling in-game coaching decisions, this was the biggest disappointment to me this year. Given the wailing and gnashing of teeth I heard for years from GT fans and alums about CPJ's offense, I expected a better showing from our fanbase when so many finally got what they'd been waiting for. The school (and TStan) stepped up and hired the type of guy that so many people wanted, then we all collectively let them down.

ETA: lest anything think otherwise, this includes me. I did not do my part to maintain enthusiasm or show support like I should have. Kudos to the coaching staff and players for maintaining a positive outlook throughout the season.
 
Last edited:

BainbridgeJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,210
Aside from the myriad of puzzling in-game coaching decisions, this was the biggest disappointment to me this year. Given the wailing and gnashing of teeth I heard for years from GT fans and alums about CPJ's offense, I expected a better showing from our fanbase when so many finally got what they'd been waiting for. The school (and TStan) stepped up and hired the type of guy that so many people wanted, then we all collectively let them down.
I liked this post, but let me play devil's advocate: I went a year without season tickets and kind of liked it. You spend more time with the family. You have a lot more time for your hobbies. The drinks and food are better. You get to watch other games. If the game got out of hand, I'd just go walk 18 because the golf course is empty on fall Saturdays.

@gtstinger776
 

BonafideJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
201
I liked this post, but let me play devil's advocate: I went a year without season tickets and kind of liked it. You spend more time with the family. You have a lot more time for your hobbies. The drinks and food are better. You get to watch other games. If the game got out of hand, I'd just go walk 18 because the golf course is empty on fall Saturdays.

@gtstinger776
Hell of a 666th post, @BainbridgeJacket, you advocate for the devil! ;)
 

JacketRacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
435
I liked this post, but let me play devil's advocate: I went a year without season tickets and kind of liked it. You spend more time with the family. You have a lot more time for your hobbies. The drinks and food are better. You get to watch other games. If the game got out of hand, I'd just go walk 18 because the golf course is empty on fall Saturdays.

@gtstinger776

MBS figured that out. Let us buy liquor and beer, or even coffee (why can I never find coffee? It's like we're BYU) and it'll go a LONG way to getting me in the seats 10 minutes before kickoff instead of me trying to finish my drink at that time.
 

FlatsLander

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
926
And that’s why the stadium was red. We have a small fan base and are not even attempting to get Georgia families here. It’s not changing even with double digit wins. GT has turned loyal long standing fans against them just by who they reject and accept. UGA has started this as well the last few years but they are still such a large school that they have enough fans to fill their dump. But, they are also losing loyal families by their acceptance policies. It’s human nature to get po’d when a family member does everything right and taxes are paid and then a kid from Illinois or New Jersey get that spot. It makes no sense in the long term. Eventually GT will rue the day they tuned their nose at this state. Eventually, the BOR will simply tear it down piece by piece. The engineering program at UGA is just one step in the process.
Georgia Tech as an Institute (university) is very highly regarded both nationally and internationally, I'm pretty sure lowering admission standards to get more football fans is not the way they will decide to go. I think what needs to happen goes along with with CGC has started this year with the #404takeover. There should be a way of reaching out to baseball or soccer fans that don't care yet care about football, but get them to embrace the headlining Atlanta college football team. We're not going to make a bunch of random people new GT fans, but if they are fans of 404 things, then maybe that can fill in the gaps.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,012
Georgia Tech as an Institute (university) is very highly regarded both nationally and internationally, I'm pretty sure lowering admission standards to get more football fans is not the way they will decide to go. I think what needs to happen goes along with with CGC has started this year with the #404takeover. There should be a way of reaching out to baseball or soccer fans that don't care yet care about football, but get them to embrace the headlining Atlanta college football team. We're not going to make a bunch of random people new GT fans, but if they are fans of 404 things, then maybe that can fill in the gaps.
Most baseball and soccer fans in Atlanta already root for a college football team in the Atlanta media market, it’s located about 70 miles east of Atlanta. Atlanta United succeeding in building an incredibly strong fan base quickly because there was no existing market for soccer in the area. There wasn’t anybody to compete with, and because the metro-Atlanta area is incredibly diverse it was able to attract existing soccer fans and new ones. The Braves were one of the first baseball teams to move south, and provided a massive TV market nationally with TBS. Tech is in a second tier football conference, as a speciality institution, and is dominated by grads of other nearby schools by population in its own city. College football in the south, especially Atlanta, is a completely saturated market. Very few people who consider themselves sports fans living near the city don’t actively root for one team or another.
 

tsrich

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
789
And that’s why the stadium was red. We have a small fan base and are not even attempting to get Georgia families here. It’s not changing even with double digit wins. GT has turned loyal long standing fans against them just by who they reject and accept. UGA has started this as well the last few years but they are still such a large school that they have enough fans to fill their dump. But, they are also losing loyal families by their acceptance policies. It’s human nature to get po’d when a family member does everything right and taxes are paid and then a kid from Illinois or New Jersey get that spot. It makes no sense in the long term. Eventually GT will rue the day they tuned their nose at this state. Eventually, the BOR will simply tear it down piece by piece. The engineering program at UGA is just one step in the process.

The in state / out of state divide is roughly 60/40 now. As near as I can tell, it was about 63/37 in 1986. The issue isn't so much that Tech rejecting candidates in favor of more out of state students but that the population of Georgia has gone from <6 million to 11 million in that timespan. You're competing with more and more students for the slots.

We're seeing the same thing here in NC with UNC which accepts far fewer out-of-state students. Incredibly qualified students aren't getting accepted. It's probably worse there because UNC hasn't grown as much as Tech has in the last 3 decades.
 

LongforDodd

LatinxBreakfastTacos
Messages
3,262
I liked this post, but let me play devil's advocate: I went a year without season tickets and kind of liked it. You spend more time with the family. You have a lot more time for your hobbies. The drinks and food are better. You get to watch other games. If the game got out of hand, I'd just go walk 18 because the golf course is empty on fall Saturdays.

@gtstinger776
Keep buying the tickets but give them away.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,346
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Auburn, AL
Most baseball and soccer fans in Atlanta already root for a college football team in the Atlanta media market, it’s located about 70 miles east of Atlanta. Atlanta United succeeding in building an incredibly strong fan base quickly because there was no existing market for soccer in the area. There wasn’t anybody to compete with, and because the metro-Atlanta area is incredibly diverse it was able to attract existing soccer fans and new ones. The Braves were one of the first baseball teams to move south, and provided a massive TV market nationally with TBS. Tech is in a second tier football conference, as a speciality institution, and is dominated by grads of other nearby schools by population in its own city. College football in the south, especially Atlanta, is a completely saturated market. Very few people who consider themselves sports fans living near the city don’t actively root for one team or another.

This is one of the most intelligent posts on this subject I've read in some time. Tech is not going to suddenly jump to 55,000 attendance. It will be lucky not to drop less than 40,000. But it doesn't matter much … all college football is programming content now. Programs, for all their bluster, don't really care if the stadium is full or not.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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Albany Georgia
Gailey got beat 51-7 in his first year against ugag with a helluva lot more talent than what we have now and lasted another 7 years never beating ugag. Barring NCAA sanctions, us getting blown out by them next year isn't getting Collins fired.

Losing more games than you win will get any coach fired. Miami fans (admittedly a poor example) are screaming that they want Manny, the AD, the school president, and everybody with a pulse fired after losing to Florida International and Duke. Coach Collins is safe for a while for the simple reason that we cannot afford to fire him. We can't afford to have 25,000 fans in attendance either but that is probably what will happen if we have another year like this one. Three wins will not get it done next year yet that is a very real possibility with an upgraded schedule.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,145
This is my very summarized opinion of what my take is at this point - it is an opinion, and I don't offer it as fact:
  • Offense did not really improve or get worse in my opinion (too many ups and downs)
  • But, with such a patchwork O line, it is really difficult to assess - I do believe that Key did a good job of improving the offensive line, based on what was available to him
  • Defense seemed to wear down a bit over the season, as it would make sense that would happen, with such limited depth and size on the DL
  • The defensive backfield is the major highlight of the team - they had very few fundamental breakdowns during the season
  • Our punter is solid, but we knew that - we worked him a little too much :)
  • Our kicker(s) looked bad this year on FG attempts, but I blame this on coaching - you go with a kicker that gets it done in the game situations, until he does not get it done
  • Special teams were myeh basically - not terrible, probably a little better in general than previous years, but not consistent either
  • Recruiting, although so far a step up for sure (and the transfers that could not play this year will definitely help), is still not showing the kind of commitments for the DL and OL that are needed (enough of them - and the high 3 star or 4 star talent), but this is difficult for any non-football factory, especially on the DL - just a numbers game - not enough big nasties to go around
  • Fan base has definitely not grown in 2019 - at least not the ones that attend and spend - hoping this can change over the next few years
I would be surprised next year if we win 4 or more games with our schedule. If the coaching performs miracles, a bowl game could be had, but I think it would require some superb coaching. Now, I say all of this with the background of seeing our offensive skill players this year (especially QB) in this P-nut offense. Maybe, if a QB steps up (and his talent around him makes a monumental leap upward), a coaching miracle would not be required to get to 6 wins. I will continue to believe that CGC needs a play calling/play design genius for his OC, especially at GT.

This is what I see - I also hope and pray that CGC is growing and learning as he goes, because with only 2 years of HC experience, he still had a lot to learn - he must be willing to change when change is needed - flexibility to see what works and what does not work is CRITICAL. This includes his asst. coach decisions (hirings and firings) going forward.
Opinions on your opinions:

1. Yes. This was, I think, mainly a matter of the lack of flexibility you mention later. What we should have done is go really multiple a la Wisconsin with the run predominating. The team was recruited to run, so why stop them? I understand we wanted to look good to recruits, but really …

2. I agree. The nagging injuries really hurt.

3. Losing Dawson and Owens really, really hurt our DL performance, imho. DE was hit and hit hard.

4. I don't think they were quite that good, but better, at least.

5. Harvin led the nation in the number of punts! Our only national ranking!

6. Yesssssss. I don't think we did ourselves any favors by not using Welles on FGs. King could have done KOs. I don't have a clue as to why this happened, but it was obvious that Welles kicked with less confidence this year.

7. Yes. We pretty much sucked, especially when receiving. It often seemed that our return people hadn't been getting even rudimentary instruction.

8. Yes. People need to look at the some players who developed into good DLs at Tech:
Gotsis: He's from OZ, for Christ's sake!
Perdoni: He was 5'10" playing DT.
Rudolph: He was recruited as a LB and grew out of it.
Walker: He had one offer (Tech) from a major program when he committed.
Coleman: He was a tween that nobody wanted to take a chance on. Except Ross.
Johnson: He was a 6'7" 215 lb. TE who wanted to play D. Nobody would promise to give him a chance there. Except Chan.
And the list goes on …
Tech has signed some DLs who fit the profile - Richards, Barnes, Attaochu, Cross - but most of our good ones have been stretches. We need to rustle the bushes as hard as we can and hope the staff has an eye for talent. Overall, we've done ok this year; I think we'll end up in the high 20s or low 30s in ranking. We need to be patient about DLs, however, and about recruiting going forward.

9. Yep. I think this is pretty much in the cards, given the school's small alum base. Then there's the declining interest in football (American style, at least) playing into it in the future. But, like you say, everybody is having this problem.
 

Sarrick

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
848
Not sure why people are surprised there was so much red in the stands, it’s been like that for at least the past 10 years. This was no different than normal.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,113
Georgia Tech as an Institute (university) is very highly regarded both nationally and internationally, I'm pretty sure lowering admission standards to get more football fans is not the way they will decide to go. I think what needs to happen goes along with with CGC has started this year with the #404takeover. There should be a way of reaching out to baseball or soccer fans that don't care yet care about football, but get them to embrace the headlining Atlanta college football team. We're not going to make a bunch of random people new GT fans, but if they are fans of 404 things, then maybe that can fill in the gaps.

I never said anything about lowering standards. If the mix is 60/40 in state/out of state and has been that way for a long time and our fan base continues to shrink then maybe we should go 80/20 and grow our presence in the state of Georgia. We could go 100% in state without lowering standards. There are Georgia kids who get rejected every admissions in favor of kids with lower scores from out of state. GT is reaping decades of taking kids who have no ties nor intentions to stay in Georgia. It is called the Georgia Institute of Technology not the East Coast Institute of Technology.
 

swampsting

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1,881
Did they put a priority on watching film during the week and teaching the kids how to watch film? The previous staff didn't. Did the previous staff allow NFL scouts into practice and let them observe the players during the year? The pervious staff did not. These are just a few examples of how messed up the pervious regime was, and thats all coming from a current player and staff member. You have no idea how much goes into transitions and how messed up things were in the past unless you are in the know.
whether the previous regime laid out a red carpet for NFL scouts had zero to do with wins and losses. and ultimately, that's what every single coach is judged on
and what comes to film stuff, we knew what we were running. we knew how other teams were likely to attack it. the nature of our offense dictated the coverages (a whole lot of man) it faced. Not a real big need to watch film all day long when you know what you're doing on offense and you have a pretty good idea of what the other team is going to do defensively.
 

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,078
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Let's be real. We were 3-8 and uga was about to go to the sec championship game. All those uga fans out there that can't get a ticket to sanford & sons stadium would jump at a chance to see uga play, regardless of the venue. Plus, our tickets are relatively cheap in comparison. The amount of red in BDS should not surprise anyone, regardless of how disgusting it was.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,725
Losing more games than you win will get any coach fired. Miami fans (admittedly a poor example) are screaming that they want Manny, the AD, the school president, and everybody with a pulse fired after losing to Florida International and Duke. Coach Collins is safe for a while for the simple reason that we cannot afford to fire him. We can't afford to have 25,000 fans in attendance either but that is probably what will happen if we have another year like this one. Three wins will not get it done next year yet that is a very real possibility with an upgraded schedule.

Re: Manny Diaz

If you’re barely bowl eligible with years of Miami-ranked recruiting classes, maybe you should catch flak.




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