Richt's gone

[Legal Jacket]

I think this is a fair statement. I have always said CMR is a good coach. I just don't think he's a great one.

Not as much arguing the good v great distinction as I am debating the people who think Richt had little to do with their success the last 15 years. Why I said in post 349 we may just be arguing semantics.

 

[Legal Jacket]

No, I know. I was being facetious. I think my larger issue is that he said Florida didn't have a better coach than Richt, which is crazy. Florida had Spurrier, Zook, Meyer, Muschamp, and McElwain during Richt's time at UGA. The only coach against whom he was clearly better was Muschamp. And if Muschamp is the basis of the argument, I'd suggest reevaluating.

Amazing McElwain can go 10-4 in a down year in the SEC, barely end the year ranked (#25 in both polls), lose his last three games by a combined 97-24, and yet based on that single season be considered better than Richt.

The only coaches UF has had that have a better track record than Richt since he started coaching are Spurrier and Meyer. The fact you even try to suggest Zook is like Richt is ridiculous. Anyways, the point is its obviously not as easy as handing a somewhat decent coach a sports car and saying "don't F it up." Muschamp is largely considered one of the top assistant coaches in the country. If being a head coach were that easy, you wouldn't see people have a problem making the leap like he did.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Amazing McElwain can go 10-4 in a down year in the SEC, barely end the year ranked (#25 in both polls), lose his last three games by a combined 97-24, and yet based on that single season be considered better than Richt.

The only coaches UF has had that have a better track record than Richt since he started coaching are Spurrier and Meyer. The fact you even try to suggest Zook is like Richt is ridiculous. Anyways, the point is its obviously not as easy as handing a somewhat decent coach a sports car and saying "don't F it up." Muschamp is largely considered one of the top assistant coaches in the country. If being a head coach were that easy, you wouldn't see people have a problem making the leap like he did.

McElwain's team blew the doors off Georgia this year. And if Zook is so bad, I would love to know why you think Richt is a better coach despite his losing record against him.

As for the analogy, I don't recall saying it was easy. I said that for the people who are at the level they are, don't eff it up is quite apt.

 

[inGTwetrust]

McElwain's team blew the doors off Georgia this year. And if Zook is so bad, I would love to know why you think Richt is a better coach despite his losing record against him.

As for the analogy, I don't recall saying it was easy. I said that for the people who are at the level they are, don't eff it up is quite apt.

So do you think Richt is a better coach than CPJ?

 

[JorgeJonas]

So do you think Richt is a better coach than CPJ?

No. Florida and Georgia are in roughly the same category in terms of recruiting, facilities, resources, access to players, etc. That Tech is 2-6 against UGA under Johnson is actually quite remarkable, and it speaks to Richt's failure. The fact is our games against them should not even be competitive. Anything less than a three touchdown win for UGA should be viewed negatively by them.

 

[RedPete]

No. Florida and Georgia are in roughly the same category in terms of recruiting, facilities, resources, access to players, etc. That Tech is 2-6 against UGA under Johnson is actually quite remarkable, and it speaks to Richt's failure. The fact is our games against them should not even be competitive. Anything less than a three touchdown win for UGA should be viewed negatively by them.

Eff that! Going 6-2 vs GT is hardly a "failure" by any means, and dude it's *very rare* we get blown-out by three touchdowns. Moreover the competitiveness of those games (and similar matchups vs FSU for example) is a credit to the strong job Paul Johnson is doing at Georgia Tech. You're making a case against Richt but give credit where it's due.

 

[Legal Jacket]

McElwain's team blew the doors off Georgia this year. And if Zook is so bad, I would love to know why you think Richt is a better coach despite his losing record against him.

As for the analogy, I don't recall saying it was easy. I said that for the people who are at the level they are, don't eff it up is quite apt.

You do realize uga plays more games than Florida, right? Just like for whatever reason we can't seem to beat uga most years, even if we have a better team, uga can't seem to beat Florida. So McElwain's team this year beat uga? So what, Florida was a much better team this year and uga was still adjusting to life without ole chubb.

That just shows the problem with your analysis. One game or one season aren't that relevant when you are talking about a 15 year track record. That 15 year history cuts against your opinion, so you just choose to ignore it.

Re Zook - an equally small sample size (3 games) and the average margin in those games was one point favoring Florida. Zook was 23-14 over that time period, while Richt was 34-6. Do you really have to ask which is better?

Looking at 2002 - UF lost 5 games, including to an unranked 6-6 Ole Miss team and 5 loss LSU and FSU teams. uga's only loss that year was to Florida. In 2003, Florida again lost 5, again to unranked Ole Miss. uga lost 3 - once to Florida and twice to the national champion (LSU). In 2004, Florida yet again lost 5 games and again to an unranked team from Mississippi (this time state). That year uga beat Florida, but lost to UT and once to the national champion (Auburn). Not to mention uga played in a better bowl every year and was sec champ zooks first year.

So in some, during Zook's tenure these are Florida's losses:

3 times to Miami
2 times to Tennessee
2 times to LSU
2 times to Mississippi
2 times to FSU
1 time to Mississippi State
1 time to uga
1 time to Iowa
1 time to Michigan

And these are Richt's over that same time period:

3 times to eventual national champions
2 times to Florida
1 time to Tennessee

 

[JorgeJonas]

You do realize uga plays more games than Florida, right? Just like for whatever reason we can't seem to beat uga most years, even if we have a better team, uga can't seem to beat Florida. So McElwain's team this year beat uga? So what, Florida was a much better team this year and uga was still adjusting to life without ole chubb.

That just shows the problem with your analysis. One game or one season aren't that relevant when you are talking about a 15 year track record. That 15 year history cuts against your opinion, so you just choose to ignore it.

Re Zook - an equally small sample size (3 games) and the average margin in those games was one point favoring Florida. Zook was 23-14 over that time period, while Richt was 34-6. Do you really have to ask which is better?

Looking at 2002 - UF lost 5 games, including to an unranked 6-6 Ole Miss team and 5 loss LSU and FSU teams. uga's only loss that year was to Florida. In 2003, Florida again lost 5, again to unranked Ole Miss. uga lost 3 - once to Florida and twice to the national champion (LSU). In 2004, Florida yet again lost 5 games and again to an unranked team from Mississippi (this time state). That year uga beat Florida, but lost to UT and once to the national champion (Auburn). Not to mention uga played in a better bowl every year and was sec champ zooks first year.

So in some, during Zook's tenure these are Florida's losses:

3 times to Miami
2 times to Tennessee
2 times to LSU
2 times to Mississippi
2 times to FSU
1 time to Mississippi State
1 time to uga
1 time to Iowa
1 time to Michigan

And these are Richt's over that same time period:

3 times to eventual national champions
2 times to Florida
1 time to Tennessee

I nominate you King of the Narrative!

 

[AE 87]

Well, hell, I nominate @Legal Jacket as Dwag Def

You do realize uga plays more games than Florida, right? Just like for whatever reason we can't seem to beat uga most years, even if we have a better team, uga can't seem to beat Florida. So McElwain's team this year beat uga? So what, Florida was a much better team this year and uga was still adjusting to life without ole chubb.

That just shows the problem with your analysis. One game or one season aren't that relevant when you are talking about a 15 year track record. That 15 year history cuts against your opinion, so you just choose to ignore it.

Re Zook - an equally small sample size (3 games) and the average margin in those games was one point favoring Florida. Zook was 23-14 over that time period, while Richt was 34-6. Do you really have to ask which is better?

Looking at 2002 - UF lost 5 games, including to an unranked 6-6 Ole Miss team and 5 loss LSU and FSU teams. uga's only loss that year was to Florida. In 2003, Florida again lost 5, again to unranked Ole Miss. uga lost 3 - once to Florida and twice to the national champion (LSU). In 2004, Florida yet again lost 5 games and again to an unranked team from Mississippi (this time state). That year uga beat Florida, but lost to UT and once to the national champion (Auburn). Not to mention uga played in a better bowl every year and was sec champ zooks first year.

So in some, during Zook's tenure these are Florida's losses:

3 times to Miami
2 times to Tennessee
2 times to LSU
2 times to Mississippi
2 times to FSU
1 time to Mississippi State
1 time to uga
1 time to Iowa
1 time to Michigan

And these are Richt's over that same time period:

3 times to eventual national champions
2 times to Florida
1 time to Tennessee

smh, only a lawyer would concede a semantics issue and then argue as if his definition has been stipulated

 

[Legal Jacket]

I nominate you King of the Narrative!

haha! can you tell I get paid by the hour to write.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Well, hell, I nominate @Legal Jacket as Dwag Def


smh, only a lawyer would concede a semantics issue and then argue as if his definition has been stipulated

That went over your head didn't it? It's semantics whether Richt is good or great. It's not semantics whether he's better or worse than Zook.

I'm not defending anyone, just disagreeing with any characterization that Richt simply showed up and uga was good because uga was talented. if anything, i hope I'm right - maybe Kirby isn't a great coach and the dwags fall down a couple of notches. it's all the people who are saying that it doesn't take much for uga to be good who are defending the school - they are saying that team is going to be good regardless of who is coach. my point is it doesn't take much for them to fall. see donnan and goff.

 

[RedPete]

I'm not defending anyone, just disagreeing with any characterization that Richt simply showed up and uga was good because uga was talented. if anything, i hope I'm right - maybe Kirby isn't a great coach and the dwags fall down a couple of notches. it's all the people who are saying that it doesn't take much for uga to be good who are defending the school - they are saying that team is going to be good regardless of who is coach. my point is it doesn't take much for them to fall. see donnan and goff.

^^^This!

Richt lifted Georgia to a high level for so long that people don't even remember the TRULY mediocre Goff & Donnan years anymore. In fact I'll take it a step further and say Georgia was nothing special under Dooley either except when they had that once-in-a-lifetime talent Hershall Walker take them a step further.

But yeah please Miami fans, by all means lose patience and kick Richt to the curb after a couple years before he can really get going.

 

[AE 87]

That went over your head didn't it? It's semantics whether Richt is good or great. It's not semantics whether he's better or worse than Zook.

I'm not defending anyone, just disagreeing with any characterization that Richt simply showed up and uga was good because uga was talented. if anything, i hope I'm right - maybe Kirby isn't a great coach and the dwags fall down a couple of notches. it's all the people who are saying that it doesn't take much for uga to be good who are defending the school - they are saying that team is going to be good regardless of who is coach. my point is it doesn't take much for them to fall. see donnan and goff.

Sorry, the first part of the post about being dwag defender showed up from an old deleted draft of which I thought better. Sorry about that.

The second part was intended more tongue in cheek. Fwiw, I think we can agree that a decent or good vs. great distinction is better than the "just showed up" vs great distinction. I think the people who disagree with you are not saying that he was awful or just showed up but that he didn't get the most out of his talent. He didn't reliably win vs. better coaching if he had close to competitive talent.

I agree with you 100% that we'll see what happens with georgie and d'oh U this year.

 

[JorgeJonas]

haha! can you tell I get paid by the hour to write.

I would be Legal Jacket, too, but that handle was already taken.

 

[JorgeJonas]

That went over your head didn't it? It's semantics whether Richt is good or great. It's not semantics whether he's better or worse than Zook.

I'm not defending anyone, just disagreeing with any characterization that Richt simply showed up and uga was good because uga was talented. if anything, i hope I'm right - maybe Kirby isn't a great coach and the dwags fall down a couple of notches. it's all the people who are saying that it doesn't take much for uga to be good who are defending the school - they are saying that team is going to be good regardless of who is coach. my point is it doesn't take much for them to fall. see donnan and goff.

I should be clear - no coach just shows up. They are all crazy people who work 100+ hours a week. My point with Richt was that he was the CEO of a program with substantial advantages against almost everyone against whom they compete, and I don't believe he maximized them. A winning percentage of .700 or so should be a baseline expectation there.

 

[RedPete]

My point with Richt was that he was the CEO of a program with substantial advantages against almost everyone against whom they compete, and I don't believe he maximized them. A winning percentage of .700 or so should be a baseline expectation there.

Again, both Donnan and Goff were below that .700, and even Dooley only beat it by 4 total wins (which you can chalk-up to H.Walker).
Richt made Georgia the best it's ever been -- "maximized" them if you will -- and now he's in Miami

 

[Legal Jacket]

Sorry, the first part of the post about being dwag defender showed up from an old deleted draft of which I thought better. Sorry about that.

The second part was intended more tongue in cheek. Fwiw, I think we can agree that a decent or good vs. great distinction is better than the "just showed up" vs great distinction. I think the people who disagree with you are not saying that he was awful or just showed up but that he didn't get the most out of his talent. He didn't reliably win vs. better coaching if he had close to competitive talent.

I agree with you 100% that we'll see what happens with georgie and d'oh U this year.

No worries. I get defensive sometimes on the whole "smh a damn lawyer" bit. Agreed that he didn't (thank god) get the most out of his talent. At least not in the later years. I think that probably had a lot to do with assistants leaving - the staff he had in place in the early 2000s was just better than what he had later - though the QB talent hurt them a lot (lord knows why they didn't recruit a QB the last few years, its like us with Reggie).

 

[AE 87]

No worries. I get defensive sometimes on the whole "smh a damn lawyer" bit. Agreed that he didn't (thank god) get the most out of his talent. At least not in the later years. I think that probably had a lot to do with assistants leaving - the staff he had in place in the early 2000s was just better than what he had later - though the QB talent hurt them a lot (lord knows why they didn't recruit a QB the last few years, its like us with Reggie).

Interesting analogy. I didn't think Reggie's coach was great either.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Interesting analogy. I didn't think Reggie's coach was great either.

Ha! Big difference between 7-6 and 10-3 in my book, but certainly the most valid Richt criticism to me is that he's failed to recruit big time skill players at QB and WR since AJ and Stafford left.

 

[collegeballfan]

This is a 19 page thread on an opposing coach. Guys lets talk about the weather or something.