Recruiting

[Techster]

There is a difference in QB play and that does limit us to some extent, but we aren't competing for pro style QBs and can get good players (see JT) who fit our O better. The D is pure vanilla pro too.

With A LOT of teams going to spread passing and implementing option schemes into their offense, mobile QBs are becoming a more sought after commodity.

Look at what Nick Saban, Bobby Petrino, and David Cutcliffe are doing. Those guys were once the bastion for 6'3+ drop back passers. But the past few recruiting classes, they have put an emphasis on signing dual threat QBs. All of their QBs this season are the dual threat types. There were several instances the past few seasons where we have recruited QBs that eventually signed with those schools. The market for those type of QBs is becoming tighter, and CPJ's offense is no longer one of the few offenses that are willing to take guys at QB most teams would have turned into a WR/DB/RB/etc.

Before, we didn't have to leave the Southeast to find QBs (Alabama especially), but CPJ said how it was important for GT to start looking nationally for QBs now when he talked about recruiting Lucas Johnson.

I think it boils down to this. At some positions, recruiting top tier SAs isn't as important as others. I think we've done fairly well at AB without signing the 4/5 star guys. In fact, some of our better ABs were NR or 2 star guys (Robbie Godhigh, Orwin Smith, Clinton Lynch). I think our system doesn't need the 4/5 star linemen as much as OLs that fit what we do and can do what we need (see: Shaq Mason, Freddy Burden, Trey Braun). To an extent, we don't even need 4/5 star BBs as Mills is showing, but I think life is easier with a high level BB.

At QB, CPJ has had Nesbitt (4 Star), Washington (3 star), Vad Lee (3/4 star), JeT (3/4 star). IMO, the guy who ran the offense the best was Washington, but the QB who has been most devastating is JeT. I'll let you determine whether a 4/5 star QB is needed in this offense.

 

[AE 87]

I once had to compete against a major Swiss firm. They had a very interesting approach to segmenting the market. They only pursued potential customers that were highly likely to buy from them. They had all sorts of ways to analyze it, but the bottom line was they didn't compete on price or even product. They competed on relationship - who are the prospects most likely to identify with us? Hugely effective.

It's not very efficient to go after 8 players and come up with zip. Is this the best way?

Interesting discussion.

I don't think the analogy holds. We could have 85 scholarship Dungeon Masters if we just targeted our most favorable demographic.

I'm sure we give more attention to the guys that have some interest than the guys that don't, but we have to at least pitch the top recruits.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I'm sure it does, but recruiting isn't just white and black like that and Moneyball rules don't necessarily always translate over to collegiate recruiting.

Perhaps our system does have a positive effect on the offensive side of the ball; I can think of several guys on the offensive side who played in a system similar to ours in high school.

But ultimately ... ultimately ... recruiting will eventually boil down to one simple thing: they've gotta want what you're selling.

A kid comes to GT and sees an academic presentation, a 40-year plan, coursework that will set you up for life. An above-average practice facility and weight room. A 55k stadium half-full at kickoff with half the stadium in opposing team's colors.

Now the kid goes to X-school and sees a dazzling video montage of great football moments. An incredible practice facility and weight room. He's told that he will be prepared for the NFL. A cute girl hanging on each arm as he tours. A rocking 85k stadium completely full an hour before kickoff, fans going crazy as the team enters the stadium.

That's the reality of recruiting right now.

One snippet from a post-game presser - we recruited DeShaun Watson and Clemson's entire defensive front 7, but they ultimately rejected us because they didn't want what Tech had to offer. You can sit here all day and offer up all the advantages we have of being in a different system, the 40-year plan, etc. But if they just don't want what you're selling you'll never get them, no matter how hard you try to legally recruit them.

PJ gave a funny analogy: it's like trying to date a pretty girl. You can ask her all you want but it won't matter if she doesn't like you.

This is the most concise and accurate depiction of recruiting I've ever read. It sums up what I've thought for a long time but have never been able to articulate so eloquently. Great job! I don't get why this is so hard for people to see?

 

[33jacket]

Cheese made a very good point, but I'd like to follow that up with something PJ pointed out on his radio show: this is not the ACC of old. Duke has upped its commitment to football, to the point where they have more staff to help with recruiting than we do. They have 14 staff members; we have 9.

we have 4

 

[33jacket]

Do you agree that Duke should never out-recruit us in football?

duke is on par with tech now dude. Cutcliffe has helped raise that program. go look at the last 4 years or so records and trend. Go look at the fact they have beat us 2 straight.

Duke is more committed to football than GT is. Its a fact. Their money into that staff is higher. Their recruiting is basically the same now.

also they don't assign a bunch of professors to their athletic board like GT does.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

With A LOT of teams going to spread passing and implementing option schemes into their offense, mobile QBs are becoming a more sought after commodity.

Look at what Nick Saban, Bobby Petrino, and David Cutcliffe are doing. Those guys were once the bastion for 6'3+ drop back passers. But the past few recruiting classes, they have put an emphasis on signing dual threat QBs. All of their QBs this season are the dual threat types. There were several instances the past few seasons where we have recruited QBs that eventually signed with those schools. The market for those type of QBs is becoming tighter, and CPJ's offense is no longer one of the few offenses that are willing to take guys at QB most teams would have turned into a WR/DB/RB/etc.

Before, we didn't have to leave the Southeast to find QBs (Alabama especially), but CPJ said how it was important for GT to start looking nationally for QBs now when he talked about recruiting Lucas Johnson.

I think it boils down to this. At some positions, recruiting top tier SAs isn't as important as others. I think we've done fairly well at AB without signing the 4/5 star guys. In fact, some of our better ABs were NR or 2 star guys (Robbie Godhigh, Orwin Smith, Clinton Lynch). I think our system doesn't need the 4/5 star linemen as much as OLs that fit what we do and can do what we need (see: Shaq Mason, Freddy Burden, Trey Braun). To an extent, we don't even need 4/5 star BBs as Mills is showing, but I think life is easier with a high level BB.

At QB, CPJ has had Nesbitt (4 Star), Washington (3 star), Vad Lee (3/4 star), JeT (3/4 star). IMO, the guy who ran the offense the best was Washington, but the QB who has been most devastating is JeT. I'll let you determine whether a 4/5 star QB is needed in this offense.

I agree, but pick a small bone on OL. I feel we need a real stud at RG. Maybe not a 5 star, but someone who can do what we ask of the position really, really well. Shaq Mason, who was completely misrated coming out of hs, is the epitome. His predecessor, Uzzi, was darn near perfect, too. It's kinda odd that the higher rated guy we have there now, whose expectations were even higher, is not in the same boat.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

duke is on par with tech now dude. Cutcliffe has helped raise that program. go look at the last 4 years or so records and trend. Go look at the fact they have beat us 2 straight.

Duke is more committed to football than GT is. Its a fact. Their money into that staff is higher. Their recruiting is basically the same now.

also they don't assign a bunch of professors to their athletic board like GT does.

And they have junk majors to hide athletes who still benefit from the prestige of the school, don't forget that part.

 

[65Jacket]

duke is on par with tech now dude. Cutcliffe has helped raise that program. go look at the last 4 years or so records and trend. Go look at the fact they have beat us 2 straight.

Duke is more committed to football than GT is. Its a fact. Their money into that staff is higher. Their recruiting is basically the same now.

also they don't assign a bunch of professors to their athletic board like GT does.

You are soooo right 33! I hope Stansbury received some assurances of HELP from the school and Alumni Association, and less meddling on their part. We don't need professors on the athletic board.

 

[Vespidae]

I don't think the analogy holds. We could have 85 scholarship Dungeon Masters if we just targeted our most favorable demographic.

I think it depends on how you define your target. A Dungeon Master can't play football. Automatically, he is not part of the demographic.

Will be interesting to hear Todd S's take.

 

[Techster]

Duke has upped its commitment to football, to the point where they have more staff to help with recruiting than we do. They have 14 staff members; we have 9.

Does anyone have a link to what each team pays their entire coaching staff?

Would be interesting to see our coaching salary pool versus other teams.

I noticed that Dabo Swinney is only the 26th highest paid coach, and David Cutcliffe is the 53rd highest paid coach. CPJ is the 36th highest paid coach. (Info here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/ )

I know Dabo took a smaller raise to give his OC a big raise and keep Chad Morris (before he left for SMU), and did the same with DC Brett Venables. Given what Dabo has done over the past 5 seasons, it's safe to say he probably deserves to be one of the top 10 highest paid coaches.

I'm sure all schools have a coaching pool figure, and the HC has the most input on who gets paid what. Dabo looks like he passed up his market value to beef up his coaching staff and pay for better coordinators.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Does anyone have a link to what each team pays their entire coaching staff?

Would be interesting to see our coaching salary pool versus other teams.

I noticed that Dabo Swinney is only the 26th highest paid coach, and David Cutcliffe is the 53rd highest paid coach. CPJ is the 36th highest paid coach. (Info here: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/ )

I know Dabo took a smaller raise to give his OC a big raise and keep Chad Morris (before he left for SMU), and did the same with DC Brett Venables. Given what Dabo has done over the past 5 seasons, it's safe to say he probably deserves to be one of the top 10 highest paid coaches.

I'm sure all schools have a coaching pool figure, and the HC has the most input on who gets paid what. Dabo looks like he passed up his market value to beef up his coaching staff and pay for better coordinators.

A lot more goes into why coaches accept jobs than salary. Heck, we can't afford guys willing to come (Ellis Johnson).

I wonder how much we'd have to offer Saban to even consider GT?

edit: just read in another thread that Ellis Johnson is getting 800k just to coach linebackers at South Carolina. If that doesn't illustrate the salary gulf between us and the factory tier, nothing does.

 

[Techster]

A lot more goes into why coaches accept jobs than salary. Heck, we can't afford guys willing to come (Ellis Johnson).

I wonder how much we'd have to offer Saban to even consider GT?

Of course.

Duke was competing against us (among others...SMU was the other big school in the picture) for CPJ in 2007 and CPJ ended up picking us. At the time, Duke football was a mess, and the adminstration was notorious for not supporting football. GT was actually a pretty good job at that point. This was before the hyper inflation of media and apparrel contracts that have since made the divide between the factories and us even bigger.

Interesting note: In 2006, CPJ actually pursued the NC State job (he wanted to return home to NC and coach), but they picked Tom O'Brien. CPJ would probably still be running roughshod over the ACC had he went there given the easier recruiting environment at NC State versus GT.

Another interesting note: It's always interesting to view our school from the other side of the fence. Found this while doing some research: http://www.statefansnation.com/2007/09/how-do-they-do-it/

Of all of the schools in the ACC, it has always surprised me the most that Georgia Tech does not have better support. Additionally, it has always surprised me how well GT manages to recruit and perform on the field in light of fan support that is so sub-par and fails to compare with others. In a Lee Fowler world where coaching makes little impact and takes a back seat to facilities and support and everything else under the sun, the results generated by Yellow Jackets’ program are quite impressive.

Keep in mind, that's from 2007 BEFORE CPJ. Goes to show you, GT has always been a well respected program and was once percieved more has "have" than "have nots".

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Does anyone have a link to what each team pays their entire coaching staff?

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant

The column at the far right is sortable by total compensation for assistants by the school. FWIW, Clemson pays all assistants $4,329,606. GT pays $2,504,665. Duke isn't listed because, as a private school, they aren't required to disclose salaries.

 

[Techster]

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant

The column at the far right is sortable by total compensation for assistants by the school. FWIW, Clemson pays all assistants $4,329,606. GT pays $2,504,665. Duke isn't listed because, as a private school, they aren't required to disclose salaries.

Good catch. I'm sure the figures are higher if you include recruiting staff and "analysts".

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Good catch. I'm sure the figures are higher if you include recruiting staff and "analysts".

Most likely. This only covers assistant coaches.

 

[RonJohn]

I once had to compete against a major Swiss firm. They had a very interesting approach to segmenting the market. They only pursued potential customers that were highly likely to buy from them. They had all sorts of ways to analyze it, but the bottom line was they didn't compete on price or even product. They competed on relationship - who are the prospects most likely to identify with us? Hugely effective.

It's not very efficient to go after 8 players and come up with zip. Is this the best way?

Interesting discussion.

Do you not think we do this?

• If you listen to CPJ discuss recruiting and "pulling" scholarships for visiting other schools, his comments are about relationships. He tells the kids that IF they commit, then their spot is guaranteed. IF a committed kid decides to visit other schools, then GT will offer their spot to the next guy in line. It might turn out that the next guy does not accept and the original guy still gets the spot. IF a kid is committed and has an injury in high school, the program has stood by their commitment to the kid. It is about relationship and integrity.
• GT pushes the 40 year plan, stressing that the athletes will be stressed academically and be prepared with a good education and a good network to be successful after football.
• Some kids being recruited have stated the CPJ told them directly that if they are not serious about college and schoolwork, then GT is not the place for them.
• JT's mom said in an interview that when he returned from his first trip to GT that he told her that the people there are different than all of the other football programs.

A lot of the "sure to get to the NFL" high school kids only want to tread water in college until three years when they are taken as the first pick in the draft. If that is a guys attitude, he will not fit in at GT. CPJ has made comments before that indicate that the team does not go after guys that they don't believe are prepared to put in the academic work. There have been complaints on this forum that GT concentrates too much in the South Eastern USA and could find more suitable athletes nationwide. I think I agree with that, but other schools have larger travel budgets and more staff to analyze high school film. I believe I have heard CPJ state that the coaching staff does a lot(or all) of the recruiting analysis in addition to all of their other tasks.

One thing that I do notice about the GT football players is that they represent the school well. When interviewed, most of them know how to talk in complete sentences.(Something that can't be said for the agriculture school 80 miles away) And my impression of the ones that don't speak very well is more that they are not comfortable with public speaking than that they have issues with the English language.(Once again something that can't be said about the place 80 miles away)

 

[33jacket]

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant

The column at the far right is sortable by total compensation for assistants by the school. FWIW, Clemson pays all assistants $4,329,606. GT pays $2,504,665. Duke isn't listed because, as a private school, they aren't required to disclose salaries.

notice how roof is a top paid assistant?

we can get a better DC with that money folks. Time to wake up here. GT has financial support issues, but DC is not one of them.

We do need more non-coach personnel.

BTW, we pay our assistants 2.5 million a year. But our head coach is also the OC. If you normalize, a great OC is like a million a year. So in affect Paul is giving us a bonus. That 2.5 million a year, is the same as 3.5 million a year at any other school with a traditional OC.

My point is. If you compare clemson 4.3 to a normalized GT of 3.5....it doesn't look that bad. If paul said screw it, I am not going to be OC anymore, then GT would have to hire an OC....a good one would cost 750-1 million. Our budget would have to go up to 3.5 for assistants.

my point about assistant salaries. Are we great no. But with paul as OC, it helps GT a ton....so if you look at all other positions...its not awful.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

One thing that I do notice about the GT football players is that they represent the school well. When interviewed, most of them know how to talk in complete sentences.(Something that can't be said for the agriculture school 80 miles away) And my impression of the ones that don't speak very well is more that they are not comfortable with public speaking than that they have issues with the English language.(Once again something that can't be said about the place 80 miles away)

YES !!!

 

[33jacket]

A lot more goes into why coaches accept jobs than salary. Heck, we can't afford guys willing to come (Ellis Johnson).

I wonder how much we'd have to offer Saban to even consider GT?

edit: just read in another thread that Ellis Johnson is getting 800k just to coach linebackers at South Carolina. If that doesn't illustrate the salary gulf between us and the factory tier, nothing does.

cheese that is false. Ellis Johnson made in that area as DC And Assistant HC under Spurrier; he coached the LB then too. Much like Tenuta coached our S. He was hired by muschamp as an analyst in 2016. Ellis Johnson was not making 800 as a pure LB coach anywhere. So misleading.

ELLIS JOHNSON IS AN ANALYST AT USCW NOW. If paul wants him, fire roof and offer ellis johnson roofs salary and I GAURANTEE you he comes over

Roof makes 750. Ellis would come here to be a DC in 2008 for 750. I am sure of it.

 

[GTFLETCH]

Stanf..................... nevermind

we are 2-0 against them...Tell the GTAA you want a Home and Home with them
http://www.winsipedia.com/georgia-tech/vs/stanford