Recruiting Budgets

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
OK dressed, you said it," most recruits aren't interested in what we have to offer" to me at least, that includes the TO. No sure pathway to the NFL if that's what they want to accomplish, in addition to getting an education.

I think that ones a little easier to address because we have evidence to the contrary. CPJs had 5 WRs play in/get to the NFL (Thomas, Hill, Cone, Smelter, Waller). He's had a handful of linemen (including one who started for the patriots as a rookie). We've had at least 2 BBs go pro in Dwyer and Allen. I could maybe understand the concern of a QB or AB (though I think we could put both in the NFL with the right player), but we have a good amount of evidence to point to against that.

When someone is concerned about our fans/size of the stadium or our course offerings/available majors, there isn't much to say they are mistaken. Bringing a calculus book to a pitch remains the best negative recruiting tactic somone can use against us.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,027
OK dressed, you said it," most recruits aren't interested in what we have to offer" to me at least, that includes the TO. No sure pathway to the NFL if that's what they want to accomplish, in addition to getting an education.
That's where the selling job begins with those guys. No place is a sure fire path to the NFL, but GT is certainly not a road block, either. Way too many NFLers from GT to support that. That and defense is defense and nothing to do with what we do on offense. Sure the competition will say it matters in practice, but it really doesn't. Look at all our defenders in the NFL, look at Morgan Burnett, Derrick Morgan, Michael Johnson, etc, etc, etc.
 

jacob

Banned
Messages
377
Typo, should have read Gailey. Saying Gailey is a better recruiter than Johnson is false. Gailey had one good year and one good player. Apart from that our recruiting under CPJ certainly isn't worse and is arguably significantly better than under Gailey. If Gailey was such a great recruiter, how were our classes every other year he coached for us?
Ok. But that one good year is better than all of CPJs classes put together. At least Gailey showed it can be done.
 

jacob

Banned
Messages
377
Start with filling the stadium full on Saturdays...just do that...then I'll get more on board with your optimism and expectations.
Why should we fill the stadium when we have coaches that make millions of dollars that can't even recruit more than 1 stinkin 4 star?
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Ok. But that one good year is better than all of CPJs classes put together. At least Gailey showed it can be done.

Not entirely correct. The boon of that class was the four star guys. Just going by scout, CPJ has recruited the following 13 four star dudes:

Myles Autry
Travis Custis
Shamire DeVine
Justin Thomas
Francis Kallon
Louis Young
Shawn Green
Ryan Ayers
Stephen Hill
Rod Sweeting
Jordan Luallen
JC Lanier
Omoregie Uzzi

In 2007 we recruited 9 four stars - many of them contributed (Peters, Burnett, Morgan, Nesbitt, Dwyer, Calytor) and many of them did not (DJ Donley, Willie White, Steve Threet). So I think its a bit of a stretch to claim that one year is better than the rest of CPJs classes combined, especially since we've put 8 people in the NFL draft from 2011 on (not even counting scout team or free agent signees), but only 3 guys made the pros from the 2007 class.

And my understanding is that year was an aligning of stars for us, not that it was anything special we did to land all of those guys. Dwyer, for example, wanted to play in-state. uga basically picked between caleb king and dwyer. Had they made Dwyer their #1 target, he probably would have gone there.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Why should we fill the stadium when we have coaches that make millions of dollars that can't even recruit more than 1 stinkin 4 star?

Because your love of the team shouldn't start and stop with the results on the field. If you are a fan your support should start the moment someone who goes to tech puts on the GT helmet, and doesn't stop until the concluding notes of the horse. Not to mention that we would make it much easier on our coaches to get the four stars if we sold 75k tickets to each game and had the extra revenue to go along with it.
 

Buzz776g

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
466
One other thing I see ...

Kids like quirky. Kids like fun. They like different.

Sure, Dabo could recruit well here, if GT as an institution supported his style. Music, dance, impromptu pizza promises he makes good on. A flashy website. 8-ball's eyes look like he's on drugs.

Stanford's mascot is a tree. Each new 'tree' makes his or her own costume. The band dresses up like a cow to throw insults at the opponent. Kids love the cutting-edge (for college football, anyway) showmanship.

Would we as an Institute want to do this? Should we try to change our image like this? I'm not saying we could or couldn't, would or wouldn't, should or shouldn't. I'm saying if we did it'd help differentiate us and would give us something with which to fight the factories and the grim, grey spectre of calculus.

I wish Pepper were about 40 years younger. He was ahead of his time. His time has come and we could sure use him now.
 

first&ten

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
880
Yea Buzz, Pepper was fun and his teams were always fun to watch. I also think players liked playing for him. On his Sunday TV show, even though Tech lost, he woud have a smile on his face and and say the sun would come up tomorrow and we have another game next week! For the younger posters on this board, Pepper never wore socks with his Weejun shoes and every week he would tell the viewers, please don't send me any more socks!
 
Messages
13,443
Location
Augusta, GA
One other thing I see ...

Kids like quirky. Kids like fun. They like different.

Sure, Dabo could recruit well here, if GT as an institution supported his style. Music, dance, impromptu pizza promises he makes good on. A flashy website. 8-ball's eyes look like he's on drugs.

Stanford's mascot is a tree. Each new 'tree' makes his or her own costume. The band dresses up like a cow to throw insults at the opponent. Kids love the cutting-edge (for college football, anyway) showmanship.

Would we as an Institute want to do this? Should we try to change our image like this? I'm not saying we could or couldn't, would or wouldn't, should or shouldn't. I'm saying if we did it'd help differentiate us and would give us something with which to fight the factories and the grim, grey spectre of calculus.

I wish Pepper were about 40 years younger. He was ahead of his time. His time has come and we could sure use him now.
The problem is that Pepper really wasn't a very good coach.
 

first&ten

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
880
Don't bother us with the facts!! ;)

Seriously -- this is where a bunch of great assistants and coordinators come in.
Yea, that. Pepper's teams always ran up 400- 600 yds. every game and 40's and 50's points per game. They never had a good defense and just had to out score the competition, but for some reason the games were always fun!
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,563
I wish Pepper were about 40 years younger. He was ahead of his time.
Ah, Pepper. Cartwheeling onto the filed to lead the team, long hair and a "California cool" look that seemed to work at UCLA but which Tech traditionalists hated. I confess to being one of those who liked the guy the whole time he was at Tech. Press conferences and public comments were just plain fun. But the results on the field, unfortunately, were not any different than Curry's who was the very definition of buttoned down.
 

decatur jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
119
Location
Decatur, GA
Look what happened to the last guy who said it was unrealistic to win 9-10 games a year here - fans didn't like them too much.

I am apparently one of the few (maybe the only one) that actually agreed with Braine on this. We are never going to be the team that gets 8-10 4 stars every year and wins 9-10 games consistently. No amount of "just recruiting better" is ever going to change it. We have a limited curriculum and it is HARD. We can go out and recruit every 4 and 5 star player in the southeast and maybe 20% of them could qualify to get into Tech and only half of those could actually cut it in the classroom. The recruits we are going after, due to APR requirements and The Hill, can get into just about ANY college in the US. Why would they choose Tech over any other school is beyond me. (Why I chose Tech is beyond me as well, but I am DAMN GLAD that I did.) And I feel that for the most part, the guys that choose us, are damn glad they did too, but Tech isn't for everyone. Suggesting that "recruiting better" is the answer is assuming that Tech is just like every other college in America.

I cannot believe that we are trying to compare getting better recruits to our ability to build a top notch B-school. Seriously. I hate to break it to some of you, but Ma Tech isn't in business to field a football team. Nor should it be.

I love college football. I love cheering for the Jackets. I HATE it when we lose. I expect us to win every game every year. We don't and we won't. And I am not always good with that. To sit here and say Dabo/Saban/whoever would be "recruiting better" ignores all other external factors. If you don't like those external factors (some of which make Tech such a special place), maybe you should pick Bama or Clemson or FSU or hell, Stanford and start cheering for them. I am going to cheer for my Jackets every Saturday in the fall win or lose. I am going to be elated when we win and angry when we lose and I will be that way until my time here is up. #THWG
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
I am apparently one of the few (maybe the only one) that actually agreed with Braine on this. We are never going to be the team that gets 8-10 4 stars every year and wins 9-10 games consistently. No amount of "just recruiting better" is ever going to change it. We have a limited curriculum and it is HARD. We can go out and recruit every 4 and 5 star player in the southeast and maybe 20% of them could qualify to get into Tech and only half of those could actually cut it in the classroom. The recruits we are going after, due to APR requirements and The Hill, can get into just about ANY college in the US. Why would they choose Tech over any other school is beyond me. (Why I chose Tech is beyond me as well, but I am DAMN GLAD that I did.) And I feel that for the most part, the guys that choose us, are damn glad they did too, but Tech isn't for everyone. Suggesting that "recruiting better" is the answer is assuming that Tech is just like every other college in America.

I cannot believe that we are trying to compare getting better recruits to our ability to build a top notch B-school. Seriously. I hate to break it to some of you, but Ma Tech isn't in business to field a football team. Nor should it be.

I love college football. I love cheering for the Jackets. I HATE it when we lose. I expect us to win every game every year. We don't and we won't. And I am not always good with that. To sit here and say Dabo/Saban/whoever would be "recruiting better" ignores all other external factors. If you don't like those external factors (some of which make Tech such a special place), maybe you should pick Bama or Clemson or FSU or hell, Stanford and start cheering for them. I am going to cheer for my Jackets every Saturday in the fall win or lose. I am going to be elated when we win and angry when we lose and I will be that way until my time here is up. #THWG

It was a little bit tongue in cheek. I don't disagree with your sentiment at all - just pointing out that there is no way in hell Peterson is ever going to go on record saying it after the crap Braine got for it.

We've beat the horse to death (in these and other threads) but people still somehow expect us to be good in recruiting without any reason to do so. The "let's recruit better" folks seem to think that all there is to recruiting is to roll up to someone's living room, recite a memorized three paragraph statement, and then leave. Realistically there is a lot more to it, especially when you are at GT.
 

Buzz776g

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
466
We can go out and recruit every 4 and 5 star player in the southeast and maybe 20% of them could qualify to get into Tech and only half of those could actually cut it in the classroom.
I can only speak for myself, but I think the 'recruit better' cadre might say 1) go after way more 4* and 5* outside the southeast (yes, that will take more recruiting personnel on staff; CPJ is making progress there, more progress is required); 2) anyone who qualifies to get into GT should in theory be able to cut it in the classroom, with hard work and utilization of all the support available; and, 3) if your 20% number is right, how many is that? My phone isn't conducive to real research, but 1/5 of all 4* and 5* players in the US has got to be a pretty significant number. WE NEED MORE OF THEM.

How? We need a hook. We need to become a destination school for reasons IN ADDITION to football and academics. Hire someone like a Dabo and give him the money to hire great assistants. Hire a joyful showman like Pepper was. Hire the real Jay-Z. :) I dunno. But we need cachet, we need a distinctive, perhaps quirky, hook that stands out to generations impressed by the latest cool thing.

Would this be possible? Again, I dunno. We tend to be a fairly conservative bunch; whether Tech made us this way or we make Tech this way doesn't much matter. Engineers and scientists tend not to be much into cartwheels. We also have no shortage of applicants (which is a good thing), and schools developing modern, fun images are trying to grow the school in general; the two go hand-in-hand and we don't really need that part of it.

So I dunno -- but I can't help but feel that positioning ourselves somehow as cool in some unique way would appeal to those 4* and 5* players, make the academic demands worth it to them, without harming the serious academic reputation for excellence we have and of course would never wish to sacrifice.
 

GTRX7

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,508
Location
Atlanta
Come on Cheese, you don't think Dabo (an EXCELLENT recruiter) would recruit better here than our current staff is? I'm not saying top 10, I'm saying better than our current hauls.

If you truly believe that, then I got nothin.

I agree that Dabo would almost certainly recruit better than CPJ. Not sure he would win more games though. And, after all, isn't the goal?

For those arguing we need to do something innovative and unique. We already are. CPJs system, while maybe not sexy, does give us a better chance to win with the talent we have than, say, Dabo's system would. In fact, CPJ has done pretty darn well against Dabo with significantly less talent.

It is always going to be hard to recruit at Tech, and I personally think leaning towards a better coach/worse recruiter will win us more games that a worse coach/better recruiter.

Sure, it would be great to have both. But we don't have the money to pay for a top coach. And, even if we did, just like players, the top coaches do not want to come to a small program like Tech, with a small fan base, with a small stadium, and with a built-in plethora of limitations in the way of recruiting success. (Anyone think Nick Sabin would actually come here even if we offered him $10 million a year? I don't.) Just remember, the last two coaches to truly have success here, Ross and O'Leary, both left for greener pastures once they had success.
 

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I am apparently one of the few (maybe the only one) that actually agreed with Braine on this. We are never going to be the team that gets 8-10 4 stars every year and wins 9-10 games consistently. No amount of "just recruiting better" is ever going to change it. We have a limited curriculum and it is HARD. We can go out and recruit every 4 and 5 star player in the southeast and maybe 20% of them could qualify to get into Tech and only half of those could actually cut it in the classroom. The recruits we are going after, due to APR requirements and The Hill, can get into just about ANY college in the US. Why would they choose Tech over any other school is beyond me. (Why I chose Tech is beyond me as well, but I am DAMN GLAD that I did.) And I feel that for the most part, the guys that choose us, are damn glad they did too, but Tech isn't for everyone. Suggesting that "recruiting better" is the answer is assuming that Tech is just like every other college in America.

I cannot believe that we are trying to compare getting better recruits to our ability to build a top notch B-school. Seriously. I hate to break it to some of you, but Ma Tech isn't in business to field a football team. Nor should it be.

I love college football. I love cheering for the Jackets. I HATE it when we lose. I expect us to win every game every year. We don't and we won't. And I am not always good with that. To sit here and say Dabo/Saban/whoever would be "recruiting better" ignores all other external factors. If you don't like those external factors (some of which make Tech such a special place), maybe you should pick Bama or Clemson or FSU or hell, Stanford and start cheering for them. I am going to cheer for my Jackets every Saturday in the fall win or lose. I am going to be elated when we win and angry when we lose and I will be that way until my time here is up. #THWG

Who said anything about cheering for Clemson because they have a better recruiter? Please read rather than cherry pick statements to fit your agenda. You can thump your chest all night for all I care about what a great fan you are. I'm not a fan of Tech cause I say we need to recruit better?

You think that the best recruiters in the nation couldn't recruit better than our current staff? That's your opinion.

You sound really smart, btw.

I will bow out of this conversation because people are extremely sensitive and not even remotely close to being open minded.

I'm gonna go to bed with my gold glasses on and wake up and spin everything in our favor. Seems logical, right?

lmao. Boy this site has gone down hill.
 

decatur jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
119
Location
Decatur, GA
I can only speak for myself, but I think the 'recruit better' cadre might say 1) go after way more 4* and 5* outside the southeast (yes, that will take more recruiting personnel on staff; CPJ is making progress there, more progress is required); 2) anyone who qualifies to get into GT should in theory be able to cut it in the classroom, with hard work and utilization of all the support available; and, 3) if your 20% number is right, how many is that? My phone isn't conducive to real research, but 1/5 of all 4* and 5* players in the US has got to be a pretty significant number. WE NEED MORE OF THEM.

How? We need a hook. We need to become a destination school for reasons IN ADDITION to football and academics. Hire someone like a Dabo and give him the money to hire great assistants. Hire a joyful showman like Pepper was. Hire the real Jay-Z. :) I dunno. But we need cachet, we need a distinctive, perhaps quirky, hook that stands out to generations impressed by the latest cool thing.

Would this be possible? Again, I dunno. We tend to be a fairly conservative bunch; whether Tech made us this way or we make Tech this way doesn't much matter. Engineers and scientists tend not to be much into cartwheels. We also have no shortage of applicants (which is a good thing), and schools developing modern, fun images are trying to grow the school in general; the two go hand-in-hand and we don't really need that part of it.

So I dunno -- but I can't help but feel that positioning ourselves somehow as cool in some unique way would appeal to those 4* and 5* players, make the academic demands worth it to them, without harming the serious academic reputation for excellence we have and of course would never wish to sacrifice.

These are great ideas and really the only true ideas I've seen in this thread. I left out recruiting nationally because we are already making strides in that area and have been for a few years now.

My point is that our recruiting pool is much smaller than other schools and that the "studs" that we would love to get are getting recruited just as heavy by every other major program in the country not only because they are great athletes but also because they are great students. Making the argument that we just need to do a better job of selling GT to these recruits is akin to saying that CPJ needs to call more plays that result in touchdowns. It ignores the competition and challenges that Tech students face.
 
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