Recruiting Budgets

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
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561
I may be wrong, but doesn't CPJ and staff have access to a donor's plane for recruiting purposes. I believe the trip to see Brad Stewart last season was through a donor's plane.

I don't know if that's true, but there is a huge difference between "has access" versus "full control." Having to borrow someone else's plane (and presumably pay for the fuel and pilots) is a little different than having the funding to fly wherever you want whenever you want.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Agree, what we need to do is leverage our resources. We should be #1 in anything to do with sports technology (equipment, analytical systems, etc). We should have the best computer systems, the flashiest wiz bang video boards, the best designed everything everywhere on campus. We should have the best analytical tools to figure out how to market our brand, optimize every facet of our business. We should be advertising our best student athletes- the engineers, lawyers, doctors, businessmen that we often read about that went on to absolutely fantastic post-football careers in addition to Megatron, etc.

What we're not the best at we should buy. We need to buy the Sales people to close the deals, some really hot women for every area, etc. I couldn't see foisting some pencil neck geek, computer game nerd, or foreign student that hasn't see the light of day in weeks interacting in any fashion with someone we're recruiting to play sports at GT. There's top notch professionals out there and we need to buy them onto our team.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The leadership does not care about GT sports because if they did we'd be doing all of the above. Until they start caring, we're going to be what we are.

Must be nice living in a world where reality doesn't matter. So we can just "be the best" - that easy? You must be voting for Trump too. How do you expect us to be the best. With what money? Our athletic department has total revenue of $68 million. Do you really think its that easy to "be the best" when Oregon brought in $196 million? Even schools like UNC and UVA in our own conference are bringing in $15 million more than we are. You think we can just snap our fingers and be the best at everything with that kind of disadvantage?

Oh, I see, you think because GT is great at things like chemical and biological engineering that we can also be really good at sports analytics. Maybe so, but are we going to force students to help our football team? Are we going to make all of them work in addition to their student gig, but not pay them? I can see this working out real well, especially with the substantial interest football brings to the student population. I mean, you couldn't fit one more person in the student section of our games if you tried. OF COURSE they will be knocking down doors to make sure we have the best "analytical systems, etc." and "the best computer systems," maybe even "the best designed everything everywhere on campus" I'm sure they would even help us learn how to apply those things to football, since you didn't bother to explain that.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Because he couldn't win. But there is no doubt he recruited better and recruited multiple 4 stars.

He recruited a large number of four stars once, in 2007. The rest of the comparison is in favor of Paul Johnson. So there is a lot of doubt. Saying CPJ "recruited better" is demonstrably false.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
I think what we have here is an example of the story does not meet your narrative, so let's change the story. I see a lot of folks on here continually expressing concern about the financial health of the GTAA, portraying us as broke and going out of business. Nothing could be further from the truth. But, if some of you want to believe that and portray us as that, have at it. It really does nothing to enhance your fanhood so I do not understand it, but have it.

Go Jackets!

It doesn't take a genius to figure out we are at a substantial financial disadvantage with practically every major school - so your post is very misleading. We may not be going out of business, but our financial shortcomings are well documented. When the big time schools sell 30-40k more tickets per game than we do - that's 1.5-2 million more in ticket sales alone per game. Now factor in the donations that have to be made at some of those places to get tickets, the concessions purchased at said games, the parking, the merchandise, etc.

Do you really think we are competing on even footing here? The problem we have is our fans. If you post on here but do not have season tickets you are part of the problem.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Agree. My takeaway from the article:
"...the difference may be that [Tennessee] is more diligent in how it categorizes each of its teams' recruiting expenses, and that some other schools may place some of those costs into another category — which, if true, could mean that recruiting expenses at other schools are actually higher than reported."
This sounds like it could be our situation and supports my contention that we suck at playing these NCAA reporting games. We're either too honest, not very clever, or both. The result is probably why we appear to spend more on recruiting than most (which is BS) and tangentially why our player $tipend is lower than most (which is especially BS). We need to learn how to play the game.

I would expect that most schools don't care too much into where their recruiting spending is categorized.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Last point - I don't see how money is supposed to really help us in recruiting, i.e. how spending the most translates into having the best recruits.

You could give Rice $100 million to spend on recruiting and it probably wouldn't affect the end result very much, especially if you are just looking at 4 and 5 star guys.

Our problem, as it has been, is that we don't play in the SEC (where just about everyone wants to play these days); we don't have an 80-90k person stadium; even if we did - we don't have nearly enough fans to come close to filling that stadium; our rivals - e.g. clemson and uga - routinely bring more fans into our stadium for game day than we do; we don't have joke majors that some students want; we don't have real majors that some students want; we don't have a flashy coach that some players want.

At the end of the day, the kid who wants to play in front of 90k fans or in the SEC isn't going to choose us. No amount of money is going to change that fact. I'd love to see someone to a graph with average star rating plotted against stadium size or average attendance.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,235
I don't know if that's true, but there is a huge difference between "has access" versus "full control." Having to borrow someone else's plane (and presumably pay for the fuel and pilots) is a little different than having the funding to fly wherever you want whenever you want.

If CPJ has access to the plane any time he needs it I don't see that there's any difference...except GT is NOT spending $10K a trip. Great, UM can spend $300K a year on planes, but I'd rather invest that money into staff and recruiting.

I'm not debating that UMich has more money to spend...lots of schools have more money to spend. Just simply stating that CPJ and staff have other means of getting from point A to point B. I mean, that's the only thing that matters.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
If CPJ has access to the plane any time he needs it I don't see that there's any difference...except GT is NOT spending $10K a trip. Great, UM can spend $300K a year on planes, but I'd rather invest that money into staff and recruiting.

I'm not debating that UMich has more money to spend...lots of schools have more money to spend. Just simply stating that CPJ and staff have other means of getting from point A to point B. I mean, that's the only thing that matters.

That's precisely the point. Saying someone has "access" to a plane is a lot different than having access whenever you need it. I have access to planes. But that "access" is through friends, many of whom don't even own 100% rights to the pilot or to the plane itself. So while I may have "access," I don't have much control over when I'd be able to use the plan and would certainly have to pay the costs associated with using it. Like you say, it's not a great advantage - I'd much rather invest into the staff to hopefully be able to find recruits that fit our mold, since that's what I think is the most difficult part of our recruiting. You can't get from point A to B if you don't know where point B is.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
I never said CPJ recruited better

Typo, should have read Gailey. Saying Gailey is a better recruiter than Johnson is false. Gailey had one good year and one good player. Apart from that our recruiting under CPJ certainly isn't worse and is arguably significantly better than under Gailey. If Gailey was such a great recruiter, how were our classes every other year he coached for us?
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
Must be nice living in a world where reality doesn't matter. So we can just "be the best" - that easy? You must be voting for Trump too. How do you expect us to be the best. With what money? Our athletic department has total revenue of $68 million. Do you really think its that easy to "be the best" when Oregon brought in $196 million? Even schools like UNC and UVA in our own conference are bringing in $15 million more than we are. You think we can just snap our fingers and be the best at everything with that kind of disadvantage?

Oh, I see, you think because GT is great at things like chemical and biological engineering that we can also be really good at sports analytics. Maybe so, but are we going to force students to help our football team? Are we going to make all of them work in addition to their student gig, but not pay them? I can see this working out real well, especially with the substantial interest football brings to the student population. I mean, you couldn't fit one more person in the student section of our games if you tried. OF COURSE they will be knocking down doors to make sure we have the best "analytical systems, etc." and "the best computer systems," maybe even "the best designed everything everywhere on campus" I'm sure they would even help us learn how to apply those things to football, since you didn't bother to explain that.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Have you taken a glimpse at our strategic plans lately? Supposedly our leadership has and thinks GT can be a leader in many areas. When asked the question directly, Bud Peterson didn't duck by saying iiwii and saying our alumni/fanbase is full of cheap SOBs that wouldn't even fill the stadium even when we're winning. Maybe he's a liar? I'll give them credit, they took a Business School that was lightly regarded and has it solidly in the Top 25. Maybe we got there by telling ourselves it was impossible and just waited for it to happen?

All I'm saying is I'm personally tired of all the excuses. People will buy a product that they consider to be worth the money (time, etc) they're spending on it. If we can't get the fans in the seats by recruiting great teams first, then improve the game day experience so we can generate the revenue to afford the recruiting. You guys are so freaking linear sometimes it's amazing. Ever heard the saying not every problem's a nail and not every solution is a hammer? If we can't beat the elite Teams straight up we need to use our old noggins to figure it out. Isn't that what Engineers are supposed to be able to do? I refuse to believe we're too stupid to win. Too lazy, too many defeatist attitudes to deal with, other priorities we think are more important, ok but not too dumb. That's just crazy talk. GT should be a showcase, not a doorstop.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Have you taken a glimpse at our strategic plans lately? Supposedly our leadership has and thinks GT can be a leader in many areas. When asked the question directly, Bud Peterson didn't duck by saying iiwii and saying our alumni/fanbase is full of cheap SOBs that wouldn't even fill the stadium even when we're winning. Maybe he's a liar? I'll give them credit, they took a Business School that was lightly regarded and has it solidly in the Top 25. Maybe we got there by telling ourselves it was impossible and just waited for it to happen?

All I'm saying is I'm personally tired of all the excuses. People will buy a product that they consider to be worth the money (time, etc) they're spending on it. If we can't get the fans in the seats by recruiting great teams first, then improve the game day experience so we can generate the revenue to afford the recruiting. You guys are so freaking linear sometimes it's amazing. Ever heard the saying not every problem's a nail and not every solution is a hammer? If we can't beat the elite Teams straight up we need to use our old noggins to figure it out. Isn't that what Engineers are supposed to be able to do? I refuse to believe we're too stupid to win. Too lazy, too many defeatist attitudes to deal with, other priorities we think are more important, ok but not too dumb. That's just crazy talk. GT should be a showcase, not a doorstop.

Start with filling the stadium full on Saturdays...just do that...then I'll get more on board with your optimism and expectations.
 

Milwaukee

Banned
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7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I think what we have here is an example of the story does not meet your narrative, so let's change the story. I see a lot of folks on here continually expressing concern about the financial health of the GTAA, portraying us as broke and going out of business. Nothing could be further from the truth. But, if some of you want to believe that and portray us as that, have at it. It really does nothing to enhance your fanhood so I do not understand it, but have it.

Go Jackets!

Co-sign

Pretty much sums it up, Jerry. Gold glasses won't own up to the facts.

Most Tech fans are in denial about the recruiting situation, unfortunately. And I get it to a point; you want to spin everything positively on a message board and that makes you feel more optimistic as you casually stroll along through your daily duties. But face facts gentlemen. Some of these excuses are BEYOND absurd.

Stating the facts, and not making excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse, does not make one a debbie downer or even a negative person. I personally think the fact that we don't have more straight shooters is one reason we suffer as a fan base. Let's start questioning the concerns about recruiting to the staff and administration. What in the hell does that hurt? And don't accept the cliche "we're getting who we want" answers. I promise, we're not getting the majority of the studs we'd like to have that actually do qualify to get in.

We ALL LOVE TECH and want us to recruit better. Just remember that. But if you lay your head on your pillow at night and think "aww, we're just too far behind the 8ball here at Tech" then YOU SIR are the problem. There are academic hurdles, we're GD WELL AWARE OF THEM, but we should recruit better than we have been, period. The problem is not the "non-season ticket holders" as someone mentioned earlier (how the hell does that even make sense?). If I purchase a season ticket from Milwaukee and donate every ticket to a GA local it's not gonna change the perception of most of you gold glass wearing individuals. I donate more money each year than a lot of season ticket holders, and I'm happy to do my part. But that's an asinine statement to make, especially (if) directed to people living out of state.

And stop pointing to the fact that Gailey only brought in one good class. We're well aware of that. Gailey should've recruited better overall - fact. Johnson sure as hell should be recruiting better overall - fact. It can be done, even if only one class proved it. Stop slanting everything just because you love the program. Just be real about it.

Sorry for the long rant, but the excuses in this thread are getting deeper. It's like talking to a brick wall.

We're spending more money on recruiting than most of you thought - fact. And the peanut gallery won't even acknowledge it, they just pile an exception on top of an excuse hidden under another exception. "Well, Clemson hides their true dollars spent", "Private jets aren't what PJ uses", etc.

Our staff needs to sell our program better and recruit better - fact.

But I do have a good feeling about Robertson for some odd reason, even after the 50 page recruiting carnival. I think we land this stud.
 
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herb

Helluva Engineer
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1,039
The recruiting budget everyone is discussing here is not the one that matters when trying to compete with the big boys.
 

tmhunter52

Helluva Engineer
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2,449
Every team in the ACC already has one or more football commitments for 2017, with the exception of one member. Any guesses?
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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14,218
Co-sign

Pretty much sums it up, Jerry. Gold glasses won't own up to the facts.

Most Tech fans are in denial about the recruiting situation, unfortunately. And I get it to a point; you want to spin everything positively on a message board and that makes you feel more optimistic as you casually stroll along through your daily duties. But face facts gentlemen. Some of these excuses are BEYOND absurd.

Stating the facts, and not making excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse, does not make one a debbie downer or even a negative person. I personally think the fact that we don't have more straight shooters is one reason we suffer as a fan base. Let's start questioning the concerns about recruiting to the staff and administration. What in the hell does that hurt? And don't accept the cliche "we're getting who we want" answers. I promise, we're not getting the majority of the studs we'd like to have that actually do qualify to get in.

We ALL LOVE TECH and want us to recruit better. Just remember that. But if you lay your head on your pillow at night and think "aww, we're just too far behind the 8ball here at Tech" then YOU SIR are the problem. There are academic hurdles, we're GD WELL AWARE OF THEM, but we should recruit better than we have been, period. The problem is not the "non-season ticket holders" as someone mentioned earlier (how the hell does that even make sense?). If I purchase a season ticket from Milwaukee and donate every ticket to a GA local it's not gonna change the perception of most of you gold glass wearing individuals. I donate more money each year than a lot of season ticket holders, and I'm happy to do my part. But that's an asinine statement to make, especially (if) directed to people living out of state.

And stop pointing to the fact that Gailey only brought in one good class. We're well aware of that. Gailey should've recruited better overall - fact. Johnson sure as hell should be recruiting better overall - fact. It can be done, even if only one class proved it. Stop slanting everything just because you love the program. Just be real about it.

Sorry for the long rant, but the excuses in this thread are getting deeper. It's like talking to a brick wall.

We're spending more money on recruiting than most of you thought - fact. And the peanut gallery won't even acknowledge it, they just pile an exception on top of an excuse hidden under another exception. "Well, Clemson hides their true dollars spent", "Private jets aren't what PJ uses", etc.

Our staff needs to sell our program better and recruit better - fact.

But I do have a good feeling about Robertson for some odd reason, even after the 50 page recruiting carnival. I think we land this stud.
Nice rant. Now give us some clue as to what we should and can be doing to better our recruiting. Complaining about a problem is no better than making excuses for it.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
Have you taken a glimpse at our strategic plans lately? Supposedly our leadership has and thinks GT can be a leader in many areas. When asked the question directly, Bud Peterson didn't duck by saying iiwii and saying our alumni/fanbase is full of cheap SOBs that wouldn't even fill the stadium even when we're winning. Maybe he's a liar? I'll give them credit, they took a Business School that was lightly regarded and has it solidly in the Top 25. Maybe we got there by telling ourselves it was impossible and just waited for it to happen?

All I'm saying is I'm personally tired of all the excuses. People will buy a product that they consider to be worth the money (time, etc) they're spending on it. If we can't get the fans in the seats by recruiting great teams first, then improve the game day experience so we can generate the revenue to afford the recruiting. You guys are so freaking linear sometimes it's amazing. Ever heard the saying not every problem's a nail and not every solution is a hammer? If we can't beat the elite Teams straight up we need to use our old noggins to figure it out. Isn't that what Engineers are supposed to be able to do? I refuse to believe we're too stupid to win. Too lazy, too many defeatist attitudes to deal with, other priorities we think are more important, ok but not too dumb. That's just crazy talk. GT should be a showcase, not a doorstop.

Of course Peterson isn't going shrug his shoulders and say iiwii. Look what happened to the last guy who said it was unrealistic to win 9-10 games a year here - fans didn't like them too much.

It's off base to compare the B school to our football team. For one, Tech has one of the largest endowments of any school at over a billion dollars. There are about 20-25 "major" (including Vandy, SMU) football schools ahead of us in endowment. Tech's original management program was so successful it became its own school - Georgia State. The whole point of Tech's management school was to fill an established need for management training in technology, which is why the industrial management degree was established in 1934 - that associated master's degree was the first professional management degree offered in the state of georgia.

That's not even getting into your false statement that the B school has ever been lightly regarded. Just looking at 1950s graduates alone, the school has churned out significant businessmen, executives at Amex, INVESCO, Delta, Lockheed Martin, Westinghouse, Habersham & Cowan, ComSouth, Merrill Lynch, etc. I've lived in the city of Atlanta for over 20 years, and I've not once heard anyone credible "lightly regard" GTs business school.

It's also foolish to compare the B school to football because the economics are completely different. The market for a tech-focused management degree demanded a program like GTs, especially in the southeast. That's a natural fit. It's easy for a top engineering school to recruit brilliant minds and then offer them a science-related business learning opportunity should they decide that science isn't for them.

The same isn't true at all for football, and GT is not presented with any synergies in that regard. Those wonderful science students that support the b school? They are a negative weight on a football program since they don't bother to show up for the games.

In sum - it's not linear at all to recognize GTs shortcomings. No other major program has as few majors as we do, as few alumni as we do, and as few fans as we do. Those are facts, not excuses. When other programs are bringing in over $100 more in revenue than you are, and more than doubling your average attendance, those are also facts, not excuses.

Nobody has a defeatist attitude. Nobody is guilty of linear thinking. That's why we support CPJ. Of course GT is working on improving the fan experience - just as they have for the last decade.

But your use of cliches demonstrates that our problems are not easy to solve - if they are, in fact, solvable, which they may not be. We can't just snap our fingers and assume people will buy a product that they consider worth the money. It doesn't work that way. Ever wonder why the Braves stadium had tons of empty seats in the 90s, including in the playoffs? That wasn't because they put up a subpar team. What else can GT do to improve the fan experience? They've already done up the whole jacket walk, add a ton of pregame festivities on the north end of the stadium, added a premium tailgating area, added the fifth street bridge area for tailgaiting, added more premium seating in the stadium, added more and better food options, etc. etc. They've invested in massive marketing efforts (#togetherweswarm?). When recruiting was proving to be problematic, we hired more people to help.

At the end of the day though, just saying that "GT should be a showcase, not a doorstop" ignores every reality we face. Why shouldn't any other team we play be a showcase? What makes GT so much more special that we should automatically compete with teams that have more money and easier paths than we do. Being a GT fan to me has always been about trying to do more with less. It's great when we win, but pretending our football program isn't presented with innumerable hurdles is just ignoring reality. The opposite isn't "defeatist" - I promise I cheer louder than you and go to more games than you do. But expecting us to magically fix all of our shortcomings is a fools errand.
 
Messages
861
One issue that I see being a fan of GT, is the elitist attitudes of the alumni. That might be a reason we don't have many fans that aren't alumni. I am not an alumni of GT, but I am a long time fan. I support the team and the coaches through the good and bad times. If you can't do that, well really no reason to call yourself a fan.
 
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