Ranked #24

[AE 87]

I see your point 87 but there have been other Clemson coaches that had nearly as much talent and consistently found ways to underachieve. Dabo has taken Clemson to the proverbial Promised Land of being an honest to goodness FOOTBALL FACTORY which is what they have lusted after for nearly a half century. Now Clemson fans see themselves as on the same level with Alabama, UGA, Michigan, USC, Oklahoma, Auburn, Tennessee, Ohio State, Penn State among others where academics are a decided backseat to the god of football. Jess Neely could't do it, Ole Frank Howard could't do it, ditto Charley Pell, nor Danny Ford (did win a national championship though), Ken Hatfield could't do it, neither could Tommy West or the sainted Tommy Bowden. It is what they want and Dabo has done it. ("IT" being a football factory of national prominence)

I get that. And I agree that you can't ignore it. I'm not saying Dabo should be unranked. I just dispute top 5, given that both his offensive and defensive identities have come from assistants.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Dabo is what UGA wishes they had.

Agree. Hope the dwags never gets great coach.
Not many coaches could have turned the Naval Academy around.

 

[Dottie1145]

Best Gameday coach is CPJ, just watch the Bowl game against Kentucky. It was as flawless a game as one can coach.

 

[Sideways]

Agree. Hope the dwags never gets great coach.
Not many coaches could have turned the Naval Academy around.

If UGA ever got Dabo or Lord help us, Saban there would be no stopping them. As it stands, they already have 10 five stars on this year's team which is more than anyone else in the SEC except Alabama who has 16.

 

[Sideways]

I get that. And I agree that you can't ignore it. I'm not saying Dabo should be unranked. I just dispute top 5, given that both his offensive and defensive identities have come from assistants.

True dat. It is telling that Venables (spelling?) makes a million dollars a year more than Roof. The guy he replaced was pretty good already. I know we don't have the money but if we did I would want to pay our assistants more, get more recruiting help and spend more recruiting nationally for certain positions. As it is, what Coach Johnson has done here is little short of miraculous with all the obstacles and headwinds considered.

 

[northgajacket]

People that don't like Dabo are in my humble opinion jealous. Before he arrived they had money, backing from donors. He has accomplished more than ANY of his predecessors. He's a good man. Community consciousness. He owns us. I have to admit, if hadn't met him on multiple occasions, I might still be jealous of his success to. Sign of a good HC is when the best assit coaches are calling you to work. That is happening at CU.

Owns? He's .500 against GT in his tenure

 

[northgajacket]

If UGA ever got Dabo or Lord help us, Saban there would be no stopping them. As it stands, they already have 10 five stars on this year's team which is more than anyone else in the SEC except Alabama who has 16.

And yet they still will fall short and blame others for their shortcomings.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

If UGA ever got Dabo or Lord help us, Saban there would be no stopping them. As it stands, they already have 10 five stars on this year's team which is more than anyone else in the SEC except Alabama who has 16.

S&#@, TEN? I didn't realize that. I might have to update my pre-season predictions from 7-5 to 8-4. At some point no matter how awful a coach you are, guys of that level can find ways to not constantly lose.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

LOL. It's a ranking if pwr5 head coaches.

Question: Where would you rank Dabo as a college football head coach?

 

[AE 87]

Question: Where would you rank Dabo as a college football head coach?

#6





jk

 

[dressedcheeseside]

#6





jk

I get your argument and agree to a point, but I doubt that is what the linked article was about.

This whole debate is silly as there is no objective measure that is fair. Each coach (cfhc) operates under a unique set of constraints that very widely from program to program making comparison basically impossible. In a scientific study, you'd have one independent variable, the coach, and all other factors constant. In this study you have dozens of variables other than the coach affecting the measurables.

CPJ is by far the better game day coach. If CPJ and Dabo were both given the same random set of players and told to go play today, my money would be on CPJ having the better day.

 

[AE 87]

I get your argument and agree to a point, but I doubt that is what the linked article was about.

This whole debate is silly as there is no objective measure that is fair. Each coach (cfhc) operates under a unique set of constraints that very widely from program to program making comparison basically impossible. In a scientific study, you'd have one independent variable, the coach, and all other factors constant. In this study you have dozens of variables other than the coach affecting the measurables.

CPJ is by far the better game day coach. If CPJ and Dabo were both given the same random set of players and told to go play today, my money would be on CPJ having the better day.

Yeah.
I still think it's an interesting question.

I'd have to think about it more, but suspect that there's a way to get at a ranking for coaches with a few years' experience. But, it may be hard to find/parse the data.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yeah.
I still think it's an interesting question.

I'd have to think about it more, but suspect that there's a way to get at a ranking for coaches with a few years' experience. But, it may be hard to find/parse the data.

Well lets use someone like Cutliffe as an example at Duke:
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1, administrative/funding support for football program: 4
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage most recent year: 3
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage last 5 years: 8
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Strength of Schedule: 4
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Quality of recruiting classes: 5
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Are you an A-hole: 1
* Weight 4x: Scale of 1 to 10: Actually coaches during game, having positive outcomes: 7
Total Points: 53 out of 100

Johnson at Tech:
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1, administrative/funding support for football program: 6
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage most recent year: 8
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage last 5 years: 6
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Strength of Schedule: 6
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Quality of recruiting classes: 7
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Are you an A-hole: 4
* Weight 4x: Scale of 1 to 10: Actually coaches during game, having positive outcomes: 9
Total Points: 73 out of 100

 

[AE 87]

Well lets use someone like Cutliffe as an example at Duke:
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1, administrative/funding support for football program: 4
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage most recent year: 3
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage last 5 years: 8
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Strength of Schedule: 4
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Quality of recruiting classes: 5
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Are you an A-hole: 1
* Weight 4x: Scale of 1 to 10: Actually coaches during game, having positive outcomes: 7
Total Points: 53 out of 100

Johnson at Tech:
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1, administrative/funding support for football program: 6
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage most recent year: 8
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Winning percentage last 5 years: 6
* Weight 1x: Scale of 1 to 10, Strength of Schedule: 6
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Quality of recruiting classes: 7
* Weight 1x: Scale of 10 to 1: Are you an A-hole: 4
* Weight 4x: Scale of 1 to 10: Actually coaches during game, having positive outcomes: 9
Total Points: 73 out of 100

That's one way.

 

[Sideways]

Best Gameday coach is CPJ, just watch the Bowl game against Kentucky. It was as flawless a game as one can coach.

Don't know what the rankings are, don't really care. For us, in our unique set of circumstances CPJ is the best coach. Nobody else is even close. Fedora at UNC is a good coach, as is Cutliffe at Duke, Dabo of course, Jimbo is excellent and the Sainted One is good for Miami but I would not trade our guy for any of them. The fellow at Pitt is pretty good also. Gee, this neighborhood is starting to get pretty pricey.

 

[Sideways]

And yet they still will fall short and blame others for their shortcomings.

Could be. It is nothing short of remarkable that with all their advantages including but not limited to: recruiting, academics or lack there of for athletes, Board of Regents doing their bidding, utter lack of scruples, etc. that they have not won a national championship in more than 30 years.

 

[Sideways]

I get your argument and agree to a point, but I doubt that is what the linked article was about.

This whole debate is silly as there is no objective measure that is fair. Each coach (cfhc) operates under a unique set of constraints that very widely from program to program making comparison basically impossible. In a scientific study, you'd have one independent variable, the coach, and all other factors constant. In this study you have dozens of variables other than the coach affecting the measurables.

CPJ is by far the better game day coach. If CPJ and Dabo were both given the same random set of players and told to go play today, my money would be on CPJ having the better day.

It's funny how some coaches are absolute failures at one school but seemingly thrive at another. Champ was an abject failure at Florida but seems to be doing pretty good at Carolina. Tech is so unique that its coaching challenges are totally different from anywhere else. But, as you noted other schools differ markedly in recruiting territories, atmosphere, support from administration, fan patience, tradition, and numerous other factors that make it very difficult to compare coaches. As you said, literally "dozens of variables other than the coach". Dabo was tailor made for Clemson, he just fits the place while Cutliffe, though a good coach in his own right, would probably not be a good fit for Clemson. Saban? well, anyone in need of a Scratch could certainly use his talents (Scratch was the name used by the devil in the Devil and Daniel Webster)

 

[northgajacket]

Could be. It is nothing short of remarkable that with all their advantages including but not limited to: recruiting, academics or lack there of for athletes, Board of Regents doing their bidding, utter lack of scruples, etc. that they have not won a national championship in more than 30 years.

I think it's mostly the arrogance and culture, the players and coaches believe their own hype. Plus it doesn't help that players get arrested and kicked off the team ( like the one guy who got kicked off the team for beating up his baby's mama.). They still talk about 1980 like it happened yesterday and I believe that feeds into their ego a bit. They live in an alternate reality listening to alternative facts.

M.A.S.H. was still on the air and there were hostages in Iran the last time uga won the title with their watered down schedule.

 

[northgajacket]

For some reason I imagine someone will comment about uga's 1980 season so here is the schedule from that season:

Tenn 5-6
Texas A&M 4-7
Clemson 6-5
TCU 1-10
Ole Miss 3-8
Vandy 2-9
Kentucky 3-8
S. Carolina 8-4
Florida 8-4
Auburn 5-6
Tech 1-9-1
Notre Dame 9-2-1

Combined opp. record: 55-78-2 (.407)

of the other 4 teams in the top five: uga only played Florida. uga did not play Alabama, LSU or Mississippi State

Rant over

 

[Deleted member 2897]

For some reason I imagine someone will comment about uga's 1980 season so here is the schedule from that season:

Tenn 5-6
Texas A&M 4-7
Clemson 6-5
TCU 1-10
Ole Miss 3-8
Vandy 2-9
Kentucky 3-8
S. Carolina 8-4
Florida 8-4
Auburn 5-6
Tech 1-9-1
Notre Dame 9-2-1

Combined opp. record: 55-78-2 (.407)

of the other 4 teams in the top five: uga only played Florida. uga did not play Alabama, LSU or Mississippi State

Rant over

Florida was top 5 with an 8-4 record? All 5 of the top 5 were in the SEC? Some things never change.