Ranked #24

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,670
Cutcliffe gets ranked #17 because his 52-61 record at Duke misses "the bigger picture." Nice argument but one wonders why CPJ is not given the courtesy of his own "bigger picture" which includes 2 national championships at Ga Southern and Navy's best teams in over 50 years.

Bob Stoops at #6 and Jimbo Fisher at #4 both seem a spot too low to me.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,016
Folks, it's time we gave Dabo his due. While I agree he is a little unconventional on the surface, the results he has gotten speak for themselves. Hiring good assistants is part of what makes him a good head coach. Our own CPJ appreciates Dabo. That says a lot to me.

I disagree. By your reasoning, working for a school with a larger budget to hire a better staff makes you a better coach. That's crazy, imo.
 

furant

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
351
I disagree. By your reasoning, working for a school with a larger budget to hire a better staff makes you a better coach. That's crazy, imo.
I disagree with your disagreement ;-P

There are many that can squander that opportunity or micromanage or find numerous ways to screw it up. Bottling up that lightning to get results is what makes a good coach with all of the hats they have to wear. If the results were the opposite we'd be justified in saying he was a bad head coach.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,016
I disagree with your disagreement ;-P

There are many that can squander that opportunity or micromanage or find numerous ways to screw it up. Bottling up that lightning to get results is what makes a good coach with all of the hats they have to wear. If the results were the opposite we'd be justified in saying he was a bad head coach.

So, you're saying a guy who has the budget to hire good assistants and then stays out of their way when it comes to coaching is the better coach?

Foolish me. I judge a coach first by his coaching. (y)
 

Jacket4Life9

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
210
I disagree. By your reasoning, working for a school with a larger budget to hire a better staff makes you a better coach. That's crazy, imo.

Dabo may or may not be a great position coach or even great coordinator. IMO, being a great head coach does not require that. Though he has a large budget, there are many schools with equal or better resources at which coaches have failed to appear in a National Championship game. Clemson wasn't exactly Texas, USC(w), or Alabama when Dabo took over in '08. What he has done as a CEO/head coach and his ability to bring in the right players and assistant coaches is pretty awesome. Head coaches must be able to do more than just coach, and the other responsibilities are probably a good bit more important than his actual coaching/instructing ability as a HC. Hiring "good fits" with the right schemes, personalities, recruiting ability, and instructing ability is not an easy task at any school.

CPJ is a great coach and has put together a great run at GT. He is in the minority in CFB in terms of being his own offensive coordinator and play caller. He has fielded some great offenses, but as the head man--his responsibility extends much further past fielding a great option offense. He has been a good HC, but if he were to somehow get an elite or heck, even an above average defense on the field every year he would be a much better head coach--even though our defensive success has little to do with his own coaching ability.
 
Messages
1,403
People that don't like Dabo are in my humble opinion jealous. Before he arrived they had money, backing from donors. He has accomplished more than ANY of his predecessors. He's a good man. Community consciousness. He owns us. I have to admit, if hadn't met him on multiple occasions, I might still be jealous of his success to. Sign of a good HC is when the best assit coaches are calling you to work. That is happening at CU.
 

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
6,047
People that don't like Dabo are in my humble opinion jealous. Before he arrived they had money, backing from donors. He has accomplished more than ANY of his predecessors. He's a good man. Community consciousness. He owns us. I have to admit, if hadn't met him on multiple occasions, I might still be jealous of his success to. Sign of a good HC is when the best assit coaches are calling you to work. That is happening at CU.

Not sure about own, but I get your point. As @Jacket4Life9 pointed out Dabo elevated himself as top 5 coach when he understood that in order to be Elite, you have to be a balanced football team. So he hired away Veneables and instead of focusing outside- in on the DL, he prioritized DTs while still getting the elite pass rushers.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,016
Dabo may or may not be a great position coach or even great coordinator. IMO, being a great head coach does not require that. Though he has a large budget, there are many schools with equal or better resources at which coaches have failed to appear in a National Championship game. Clemson wasn't exactly Texas, USC(w), or Alabama when Dabo took over in '08. What he has done as a CEO/head coach and his ability to bring in the right players and assistant coaches is pretty awesome. Head coaches must be able to do more than just coach, and the other responsibilities are probably a good bit more important than his actual coaching/instructing ability as a HC. Hiring "good fits" with the right schemes, personalities, recruiting ability, and instructing ability is not an easy task at any school.

CPJ is a great coach and has put together a great run at GT. He is in the minority in CFB in terms of being his own offensive coordinator and play caller. He has fielded some great offenses, but as the head man--his responsibility extends much further past fielding a great option offense. He has been a good HC, but if he were to somehow get an elite or heck, even an above average defense on the field every year he would be a much better head coach--even though our defensive success has little to do with his own coaching ability.

You're making my point.
1) It's been widely reported that cpj was not able to hire the DC he wanted because of budget. It's possible that similar constraints affected hiring position coaches.

2) When CPJ was at GS, he often had a top D as well as O, iirc. Iow, it's not like he can't have a good D. He's discussed that in terms of not having a talent issue. Which raises the second point: having better talent doesn't make you a better coach, imo.

I'm reacting against the analysis that suggests all variables are equal except HC. I think you also have to consider context.

Imo, when ranking HCs, you should be able to answer the question, "what is their genius?" If the top two answers are hiring coaches and recruiting players, then you're talking about responsibilities that are not inherent in the word coach.
 

ChasonBaller

on Pastner Polo watch
Messages
3,531
kenpagedollars.jpg

mike-bellamy.jpg
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,045
Folks, it's time we gave Dabo his due. While I agree he is a little unconventional on the surface, the results he has gotten speak for themselves. Hiring good assistants is part of what makes him a good head coach. Our own CPJ appreciates Dabo. That says a lot to me.
I agree. Some like to scoff at the skill of hiring good assistants, yet our head coach, who I love, has had a turnstile at DC. Hiring the right people is one of the primary functions of a head coach.
 
Top