Ranked #24

[Deleted member 2897]

Dabo as a top5 coach?

Dabo is absolutely undeniably a Top 5 Football Team CEO. But not an actual coach. Just ask a Clemson alum. What they'll tell you is that he does a good job connecting with the young men, and of hiring top flight assistant coaches and letting them do their job. The actual coaching part, you'd have to say he's pretty good or else they wouldn't win, but I wouldn't put that part anywhere near the top. The CEO part, absolutely.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Cutcliffe, Mullen, Malzahn...

Yea Cutliffe did wonders when he first started - taking a team that was worthless and turning it into an average program. But things are different now. They are finishing up a $100M renovation to their stadium, and he typically gets 2x the 4* athletes each year that we get (by comparison). He's been there a decade now. If you've been somewhere a decade, you have all that continuity across systems, relationships, coaches, high school coaches, and so on. Their football program gets above average support now, with above average athletes, but they turn in sub-par results. 1-7 in the ACC last year. The year before when they went 8-5, they only had 2 wins against teams who were better than 3-9. 1 team was Indiana (6-7) and 1 team was Virginia Tech (7-6). They schedule as pitiful a schedule as they possibly can each year to pad their victories. I would rank him top 20 5 years ago for what he did to build that program up. But over the last few years now that its up and stable, I'd rank him probably #40. You just can't get all that he has year after year and do barely anything with it against poor competition.

 

[AE 87]

I agree. Some like to scoff at the skill of hiring good assistants, yet our head coach, who I love, has had a turnstile at DC. Hiring the right people is one of the primary functions of a head coach.

To be clear, I'm not scoffing at the skill of hiring good assistants. I don't know anyone who is.

I'm saying that ranking coaches should take context into account.

Do you seriously think Dabo could have hired Venables at Tech with Tech's budget?

 

[4shotB]

Dabo is what UGA wishes they had.

Dabo is what all but a very,very select few schools wish they had...a guy who can get to the NC game (more than once) and win it. Not many coaches or CEO's or whatever you want to call them in that category.

 

[vamosjackets]

So, Dan Mullen is better than CPJ even though Mullen has zero restrictions to navigate at MSU and CPJ has beaten him in every head-to-head matchup. The top 5 are fine, but much of that list makes me angry.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Imagine if UNC look to Clemson/Dabo as the blueprint decided they wanted a legit defense

 

[presjacket]

Imo, when ranking HCs, you should be able to answer the question, "what is their genius?" If the top two answers are hiring coaches and recruiting players, then you're talking about responsibilities that are not inherent in the word coach.

Dabo's genius is motivating both his players and staff to win. And since when is recruiting players not an inherent responsibility for a college football coach?

 

[vamosjackets]

Imagine if UNC look to Clemson/Dabo as the blueprint decided they wanted a legit defense

To do what Clemson and Dabo have done takes a HC who doesn't care one ounce about his own status and relative salary, who will take from his own salary and give it toward those key assistants. To me that's been the most impressive thing about how Dabo did it. Of course, he (and the Clemson culture in general) is a recruiting machine as well which is just as important. And, that recruiting machine culture is not meant as a compliment.

Anyway, for UNC to even remotely touch what Clemson has done would take Fedora reducing his own salary and paying top dollar for DC salary. I think GT and CPJ should also consider this strategy, if they want to have the best chance at actually getting to the top.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

To be clear, I'm not scoffing at the skill of hiring good assistants. I don't know anyone who is.

I'm saying that ranking coaches should take context into account.

Do you seriously think Dabo could have hired Venables at Tech with Tech's budget?

No. But as others have pointed out, there are several HC's with equal or better resources that haven't hired on par with Dabo. Money isn't a guarantee.

I think what separates Dabo from the rest and puts him in the first tier is the culture he creates, sustains and sells. Blue chips kids love him, they love Clemson and they don't get disgruntled and leave or do stupid stuff to get tossed. He's a great salesman, but that's just part of it. What he's selling is real and the kids want it.

 

[AE 87]

Dabo's genius is motivating both his players and staff to win. And since when is recruiting players not an inherent responsibility for a college football coach?

OK, so you replaced my "coach" with "college football coach." That's dishonest and beneath contempt, imo"

There are coaches who don't have those responsibilities. I was explaining why I view things differently from those who used head coach to include these other responsibilities by focusing just on coach.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

OK, so you replaced my "coach" with "college football coach." That's dishonest and beneath contempt, imo"

There are coaches who don't have those responsibilities. I was explaining why I view things differently from those who used head coach to include these other responsibilities by focusing just on coach.

All the guys on the list are head coaches.

 

[AE 87]

No. But as others have pointed out, there are several HC's with equal or better resources that haven't hired on par with Dabo. Money isn't a guarantee.

I think what separates Dabo from the rest and puts him in the first tier is the culture he creates, sustains and sells. Blue chips kids love him, they love Clemson and they don't get disgruntled and leave or do stupid stuff to get tossed. He's a great salesman, but that's just part of it. What he's selling is real and the kids want it.

I didn't say money was a guarantee.

You compared Dabo's "skill" to CPJ's. By answering No to my question, I guess you just meant it as a pot shot.

 

[AE 87]

All the guys on the list are head coaches.

LOL. It's a ranking if pwr5 head coaches.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think what separates Dabo from the rest and puts him in the first tier is the culture he creates, sustains and sells. Blue chips kids love him, they love Clemson and they don't get disgruntled and leave or do stupid stuff to get tossed.

And to put maybe too fine a point on it....all the attributes you describe are exactly what makes Saban the usual number one pick among best college coaches. Put Saban in the NFL where some of these skills don't translate as well, and a coach has to be more well rounded across several coaching metrics, and he produces average to mediocre results.

 

[presjacket]

OK, so you replaced my "coach" with "college football coach." That's dishonest and beneath contempt, imo"

There are coaches who don't have those responsibilities. I was explaining why I view things differently from those who used head coach to include these other responsibilities by focusing just on coach.

Dear sir or madam:
I apologize for using adjectives to clarify what type of coach was being discussed in my comment. I am aware that other types of coaches exist, but the context of the original post was very clearly about college football head coaches. I was not attempting to be dishonest, but rather above board by clarifying what type of coach.
Sincerely,
Presjacket

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Dear sir or madam:
I apologize for using adjectives to clarify what type of coach was being discussed in my comment. I am aware that other types of coaches exist, but the context of the original post was very clearly about college football head coaches. I was not attempting to be dishonest, but rather above board by clarifying what type of coach.
Sincerely,
Presjacket

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

I look at Dabo as a CEO not as much as a coach. Hires good assistant coaches and lets them made the calls.

Dabo is actually doing the same thing Dodd did when he had his most success.

 

[AE 87]

Dear sir or madam:
I apologize for using adjectives to clarify what type of coach was being discussed in my comment. I am aware that other types of coaches exist, but the context of the original post was very clearly about college football head coaches. I was not attempting to be dishonest, but rather above board by clarifying what type of coach.
Sincerely,
Presjacket

Dude or dudette, please read again my earlier post to which you first responded. My post would have been nonsense if you replace the word "coach" with "college football coach." That's three words not one. You also had to add the word "responsibility" which I did not use.

So, clearly your attempt to put my post into context was misrepresenting my point.

Obviously, recruiting is an inherent responsibility of a college football coach. But there are coaches who don't have that responsibility, so it's not inherent in the word coach, as you now concede.

By asking, "since when ...?" you were putting the nonsense in the place of my post and asking me to defend it. That's not cool, imo.

I was simply saying that the "coach"ing factors should be weighed more heavily when ranking college football head coaches. Others can disagree.

 

[Sideways]

I disagree. By your reasoning, working for a school with a larger budget to hire a better staff makes you a better coach. That's crazy, imo.

I see your point 87 but there have been other Clemson coaches that had nearly as much talent and consistently found ways to underachieve. Dabo has taken Clemson to the proverbial Promised Land of being an honest to goodness FOOTBALL FACTORY which is what they have lusted after for nearly a half century. Now Clemson fans see themselves as on the same level with Alabama, UGA, Michigan, USC, Oklahoma, Auburn, Tennessee, Ohio State, Penn State among others where academics are a decided backseat to the god of football. Jess Neely could't do it, Ole Frank Howard could't do it, ditto Charley Pell, nor Danny Ford (did win a national championship though), Ken Hatfield could't do it, neither could Tommy West or the sainted Tommy Bowden. It is what they want and Dabo has done it. ("IT" being a football factory of national prominence)

 

[Sideways]

Yea Cutliffe did wonders when he first started - taking a team that was worthless and turning it into an average program. But things are different now. They are finishing up a $100M renovation to their stadium, and he typically gets 2x the 4* athletes each year that we get (by comparison). He's been there a decade now. If you've been somewhere a decade, you have all that continuity across systems, relationships, coaches, high school coaches, and so on. Their football program gets above average support now, with above average athletes, but they turn in sub-par results. 1-7 in the ACC last year. The year before when they went 8-5, they only had 2 wins against teams who were better than 3-9. 1 team was Indiana (6-7) and 1 team was Virginia Tech (7-6). They schedule as pitiful a schedule as they possibly can each year to pad their victories. I would rank him top 20 5 years ago for what he did to build that program up. But over the last few years now that its up and stable, I'd rank him probably #40. You just can't get all that he has year after year and do barely anything with it against poor competition.

Your facts and conclusions are indisputable. That said, Cutliffe is still a pretty good coach. May not be top 25, depending on who you talk to but there are a lot of programs that would not be in the fix they are in if they had him.