Quick poll on the pulse of the fanbase....

Have you lost faith in CPJ?


  • Total voters
    274

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
Negatives
1. We have played very, very poorly in our first two games. I know with 100% certainty that our coaches had planned to use these first three games to not only build quality reps for our starters but also to try and get a lot of reps & experience for our backups in games that were expected to be lopsided. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to put those teams away until the 4th quarter in both games and it precluded us from building the type of depth that we want and need.

I personally think that many people are overlooking many of Justin's negatives just because they want him to be really good. Not that it matters what you and/or I think so much, but people talking about Justin "progressing" from game one to game two have to be (in my opinion) overlooking quite a few negatives to think such. I'm not saying that we should sit him because I think he's far & away our best QB. But I also believe in calling things like I see them. And I think Justin played a very poor game against Tulane.

5. Lack of passing in the last game. I know what Coach Johnson is saying about them playing us in such as way that the run made more sense than the pass. But I also know that our assistant coaches find it difficult to recruit receivers when they have to try and explain why we only attempted 8 passes versus a lower-tier talented team. I was told flat out, "It's damned hard to recruit receivers for this offense".

On point 1...finally glad someone else besides myself said it. I said in another thread, each fan sees what they want to see. Some fans see it as "building character and overcoming adversity" for later in the season. I saw it as a P5 team struggling against the likes of Wofford and a sloppy showing against a less talented non-P5 team. Personally, I'd rather us struggle and overcome adversity against a team like UVA. Not only did we not slam the door shut early on those teams early like we should, but we didn't give our backups VERY important reps for later in the season when attrition due to injuries or even suspension (heaven forbid either) is likely to occur given the nature of the game. For instance, Shamire Devine should have seen a lot of snaps to get him acclimated to the speed of the game (CPJ said as much), but we couldn't get him in because our starters had to play deep into the game. If he doesn't get in versus GSU this weekend, he may have a baptism by fire against a very good VT defense. I guess he can get experience with adversity against VT though.

I think JT has potential, but I also think Vad would have had the higher ceiling in the long run. Coaches don't add new offensive concepts and formations built around a player if they don't think it pays off in the long run. I think a lot of GT fans don't realize that. There's a reason why players, coaches, and recruits kept saying over and over how the staff wanted to expand the offense and throw more. That didn't come from CPJ just because he had an itch to try something crazy after almost 30 years of coaching...he's certainly not going to be held hostage by a player either. Personally, I think CPJ was a bit hurt that Vad didn't see it out and have faith that CPJ would build an offense around him to showcase what he could do...but that's just my personal opinion. Not saying JT isn't going to be a good player...as we saw in a few instances he has big play potential, but JT is limited in certain instance (hence having to roll out to pass the ball) because of height and size.

WR is the one position that requires so many other people to do their jobs right in order to even see the ball in their hands. I think as the season progresses, our WR may have a harder time getting the ball...and it won't be their fault. I'm not confident our pass blocking is going to hold up, and I'm not sure JT will have the time or see the field well enough to get the ball to our WRs once the meat of our schedule gets here. It took Tevin a couple of years to truly understand our route concepts against defensive looks, and at this moment JT just doesn't have that. That's not his fault...it's just experience. Unfortunately, it's hard to show off our passing game to WRs if we can't block and our QB is going through growing pains.
 

BainbridgeJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
804
I voted yes. Plain and simple, I think coach is taking appropriate steps to improve our program, but it was his decisions that caused the slump to begin with. The offensive scheme isn't the issue to me. We've had a lot of coaching staff turnover which has hampered Johnson.
 

Declinometer

Banned
Messages
1,178
On point 1...finally glad someone else besides myself said it. I said in another thread, each fan sees what they want to see. Some fans see it as "building character and overcoming adversity" for later in the season. I saw it as a P5 team struggling against the likes of Wofford and a sloppy showing against a less talented non-P5 team. Personally, I'd rather us struggle and overcome adversity against a team like UVA. Not only did we not slam the door shut early on those teams early like we should, but we didn't give our backups VERY important reps for later in the season when attrition due to injuries or even suspension (heaven forbid either) is likely to occur given the nature of the game. For instance, Shamire Devine should have seen a lot of snaps to get him acclimated to the speed of the game (CPJ said as much), but we couldn't get him in because our starters had to play deep into the game. If he doesn't get in versus GSU this weekend, he may have a baptism by fire against a very good VT defense. I guess he can get experience with adversity against VT though.

I think JT has potential, but I also think Vad would have had the higher ceiling in the long run. Coaches don't add new offensive concepts and formations built around a player if they don't think it pays off in the long run. I think a lot of GT fans don't realize that. There's a reason why players, coaches, and recruits kept saying over and over how the staff wanted to expand the offense and throw more. That didn't come from CPJ just because he had an itch to try something crazy after almost 30 years of coaching...he's certainly not going to be held hostage by a player either. Personally, I think CPJ was a bit hurt that Vad didn't see it out and have faith that CPJ would build an offense around him to showcase what he could do...but that's just my personal opinion. Not saying JT isn't going to be a good player...as we saw in a few instances he has big play potential, but JT is limited in certain instance (hence having to roll out to pass the ball) because of height and size.

WR is the one position that requires so many other people to do their jobs right in order to even see the ball in their hands. I think as the season progresses, our WR may have a harder time getting the ball...and it won't be their fault. I'm not confident our pass blocking is going to hold up, and I'm not sure JT will have the time or see the field well enough to get the ball to our WRs once the meat of our schedule gets here. It took Tevin a couple of years to truly understand our route concepts against defensive looks, and at this moment JT just doesn't have that. That's not his fault...it's just experience. Unfortunately, it's hard to show off our passing game to WRs if we can't block and our QB is going through growing pains.
Quit reading when you wrote that you think VL has a higher ceiling.
 

thwgjacket

Guest
Messages
969
Let's see, a losing record over the last 4 years against FBS opponents, no top 25 wins in the last 3 years, only 2 winning seasons in the last 4 (thanks in part to 2 FCS opponents last year). All this while playing in the weakest division of the power 5 conferences.

The results of this poll seem to demonstrate the triumph of hope over experience. It is very difficult for me to understand how people can be blind to the facts, unless they are happy with what is, at best, mediocrity.

No, I haven't lost faith in Paul Johnson. I never had any. He had zero coaching experience at the BCS level when he was hired, and it shows. He still doesn't seem to understand recruiting, which is the single most important endeavor of coaching.
Guess you missed the Clemson game in 2011? And the win over Duke last year who ended in the top 25?
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,675
Let's see, a losing record over the last 4 years against FBS opponents, no top 25 wins in the last 3 years, only 2 winning seasons in the last 4 (thanks in part to 2 FCS opponents last year). All this while playing in the weakest division of the power 5 conferences.

The results of this poll seem to demonstrate the triumph of hope over experience. It is very difficult for me to understand how people can be blind to the facts, unless they are happy with what is, at best, mediocrity.

No, I haven't lost faith in Paul Johnson. I never had any. He had zero coaching experience at the BCS level when he was hired, and it shows. He still doesn't seem to understand recruiting, which is the single most important endeavor of coaching.
So you voted no...?
 

thwgjacket

Guest
Messages
969
On point 1...finally glad someone else besides myself said it. I said in another thread, each fan sees what they want to see. Some fans see it as "building character and overcoming adversity" for later in the season. I saw it as a P5 team struggling against the likes of Wofford and a sloppy showing against a less talented non-P5 team. Personally, I'd rather us struggle and overcome adversity against a team like UVA. Not only did we not slam the door shut early on those teams early like we should, but we didn't give our backups VERY important reps for later in the season when attrition due to injuries or even suspension (heaven forbid either) is likely to occur given the nature of the game. For instance, Shamire Devine should have seen a lot of snaps to get him acclimated to the speed of the game (CPJ said as much), but we couldn't get him in because our starters had to play deep into the game. If he doesn't get in versus GSU this weekend, he may have a baptism by fire against a very good VT defense. I guess he can get experience with adversity against VT though.

I think JT has potential, but I also think Vad would have had the higher ceiling in the long run. Coaches don't add new offensive concepts and formations built around a player if they don't think it pays off in the long run. I think a lot of GT fans don't realize that. There's a reason why players, coaches, and recruits kept saying over and over how the staff wanted to expand the offense and throw more. That didn't come from CPJ just because he had an itch to try something crazy after almost 30 years of coaching...he's certainly not going to be held hostage by a player either. Personally, I think CPJ was a bit hurt that Vad didn't see it out and have faith that CPJ would build an offense around him to showcase what he could do...but that's just my personal opinion. Not saying JT isn't going to be a good player...as we saw in a few instances he has big play potential, but JT is limited in certain instance (hence having to roll out to pass the ball) because of height and size.

WR is the one position that requires so many other people to do their jobs right in order to even see the ball in their hands. I think as the season progresses, our WR may have a harder time getting the ball...and it won't be their fault. I'm not confident our pass blocking is going to hold up, and I'm not sure JT will have the time or see the field well enough to get the ball to our WRs once the meat of our schedule gets here. It took Tevin a couple of years to truly understand our route concepts against defensive looks, and at this moment JT just doesn't have that. That's not his fault...it's just experience. Unfortunately, it's hard to show off our passing game to WRs if we can't block and our QB is going through growing pains.
I'm going to lmao when Tulane goes to a bowl, just like they did last year. Oh, and when they beat Duke in 2 weeks.
 

cyptomcat

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
866
I voted 'no', but I understand if someone else has lost faith.

FWIW, the AD didn't renew CPJ either (yet), so he is still evaluating whether he has faith in him or not.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
I'm going to lmao when Tulane goes to a bowl, just like they did last year. Oh, and when they beat Duke in 2 weeks.

If they do, I will be first in line to say I was wrong about them. I have no qualms about admitting when I'm wrong.

If they don't, will you be man enough to say I was right?
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,980
I voted "yes", but not because I believe PJ cannot coach winning football. I believe he can without a doubt.

I just believe that the combination of difficulty recruiting players to GT AND to his system is too much to overcome.

With that said, I will be rooting for him with everything I have. I believe that his system can help us overcome a talent gap, but the talent gap cannot be more than 25-30% from the best teams, and currently, I believe it is more like 35-40% from the top tier teams.

I don't understand your reference to "AND his system." Are you suggesting that CPJ's offensive system makes it impossible to play better than average defense? I'm asking because our offense has been good enough to win at least 9-10 games practically every season.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,675
On point 1...finally glad someone else besides myself said it. I said in another thread, each fan sees what they want to see. Some fans see it as "building character and overcoming adversity" for later in the season. I saw it as a P5 team struggling against the likes of Wofford and a sloppy showing against a less talented non-P5 team. Personally, I'd rather us struggle and overcome adversity against a team like UVA. Not only did we not slam the door shut early on those teams early like we should, but we didn't give our backups VERY important reps for later in the season when attrition due to injuries or even suspension (heaven forbid either) is likely to occur given the nature of the game. For instance, Shamire Devine should have seen a lot of snaps to get him acclimated to the speed of the game (CPJ said as much), but we couldn't get him in because our starters had to play deep into the game. If he doesn't get in versus GSU this weekend, he may have a baptism by fire against a very good VT defense. I guess he can get experience with adversity against VT though.

I think JT has potential, but I also think Vad would have had the higher ceiling in the long run. Coaches don't add new offensive concepts and formations built around a player if they don't think it pays off in the long run. I think a lot of GT fans don't realize that. There's a reason why players, coaches, and recruits kept saying over and over how the staff wanted to expand the offense and throw more. That didn't come from CPJ just because he had an itch to try something crazy after almost 30 years of coaching...he's certainly not going to be held hostage by a player either. Personally, I think CPJ was a bit hurt that Vad didn't see it out and have faith that CPJ would build an offense around him to showcase what he could do...but that's just my personal opinion. Not saying JT isn't going to be a good player...as we saw in a few instances he has big play potential, but JT is limited in certain instance (hence having to roll out to pass the ball) because of height and size.

WR is the one position that requires so many other people to do their jobs right in order to even see the ball in their hands. I think as the season progresses, our WR may have a harder time getting the ball...and it won't be their fault. I'm not confident our pass blocking is going to hold up, and I'm not sure JT will have the time or see the field well enough to get the ball to our WRs once the meat of our schedule gets here. It took Tevin a couple of years to truly understand our route concepts against defensive looks, and at this moment JT just doesn't have that. That's not his fault...it's just experience. Unfortunately, it's hard to show off our passing game to WRs if we can't block and our QB is going through growing pains.
1. You see what you want to see. We are young at qb, most of the OL and all over the D. Our starters need the reps just as much as the backups.
2. Shamire is fat and out of shape. If he'd put down the fork maybe he could help us out. Asking him to go in 100+ degree heat is dumb. The skinny guys were dropping like flies.
3. Vad's ceiling was only as high as he wanted it to be. Unfortunately, he didn't. JT's ceiling is higher not because of comparative athleticism, but because of comparative commitment to what we do. "The triple option was never my thing..." says it all and says it loud and clear.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
I voted 'no', but I understand if someone else has lost faith.

FWIW, the AD didn't renew CPJ either (yet), so he is still evaluating whether he has faith in him or not.


That is the ultimate sign that an AD isn't 100% sold on a coach, especially when a coach's contract goes less than the unspoken 4 years for recruiting purposes. It's interesting that he gave Coach Brian Gregory, who's had far less success than CPJ, an extension but not CPJ.
 

thwgjacket

Guest
Messages
969
If they do, I will be first in line to say I was wrong about them. I have no qualms about admitting when I'm wrong.

If they don't, will you be man enough to say I was right?
Of course I will. I just really like their QB and the poise he shows. I also like that big RB they have and I think we deserve more credit for stopping him than people are giving.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
1. You see what you want to see. We are young at qb, most of the OL and all over the D. Our starters need the reps just as much as the backups.
2. Shamire is fat and out of shape. If he'd put down the fork maybe he could help us out. Asking him to go in 100+ degree heat is dumb. The skinny guys were dropping like flies.
3. Vad's ceiling was only as high as he wanted it to be. Unfortunately, he didn't. JT's ceiling is higher not because of comparative athleticism, but because of comparative commitment to what we do. "The triple option was never my thing..." says it all and says it loud and clear.


1. Yeah man...that's what I said. Thanks for reiterating it.

2. Shamire may be fat and out of shape (in your opinion), but CPJ said he should have saw playing time...see: http://gtswarm.com/threads/cpj-on-shamire.3678/

3. Obviously Vad wasn't committed to the "triple option", but CPJ was committed to installing new concepts and formations to take advantage of Vad's talent. Are you just going to gloss over that because it doesn't fit your agenda? Maybe Vad saw that CPJ couldn't fully take advantage of his talents and went elsewhere. You've taken a lot of potshots at Vad since he left, so anything you say about him I'll have to take with a grain of salt.
 

Treb1982

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
354
Location
Augusta, GA
3. Obviously Vad wasn't committed to the "triple option", but CPJ was committed to installing new concepts and formations to take advantage of Vad's talent. Are you just going to gloss over that because it doesn't fit your agenda? Maybe Vad saw that CPJ couldn't fully take advantage of his talents and went elsewhere. You've taken a lot of potshots at Vad since he left, so anything you say about him I'll have to take with a grain of salt.

You think maybe CPJ had to install new concepts or formations to the offense to help compensate for Vad's lack of progression with running the base offense? There is nothing that I have seen from Thomas that makes me think he can't be a more effective passer in this offense than Vad was. Justin has showed he has a very quick release and made some impressive throws in the 1st game. This offense needs a true dual threat QB and JT is just that. Will there be growing pains? Yes but I can't wait to watch Thomas master the TO over the next 3 years.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
Of course I will. I just really like their QB and the poise he shows. I also like that big RB they have and I think we deserve more credit for stopping him than people are giving.

I agree, Tulane has some nice pieces. I like that our defense took control in the second half and shut them down. I also like that we were executing at will on offense in the second half.

My qualms with us against Tulane is that our defense was warm butter against a hot knife in the first half. Our second half performance is what I want to see from us consistently...especially against a lower tier team. We're obviously capable of it. We can't afford to have that kind of performance against the meat of our schedule and have our offense playing from behind.

On offense, we couldn't execute our passing game, and when we had to pass we were inefficient...a complete 180 from the Wofford game. It shows that we're probably not there yet once the talent in our opponent increased. We've got two good WRs that can do things if you get them the ball (Smelter and Waller), but if we can't get them the ball then it takes away from our playmakers. But I do like that we rolled up 300 yards on the ground because we made such a big deal about "getting back to the basics" all offseason since Vad left. Really like some of the stuff that's been missing with the speed option and midline.

Like I said in another thread...I tend to be more glass half full when it comes to judging things...that's just my personality because I'm kinda critical about everything (more so when it comes to the things I'm responsible for than at other people). It carries over in sports. I'm a hope for the best but prepare for the worst kinda person. LOL.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
So when you criticize, which is basically all you do, it's fine and dandy, but when I do it, it's "pot shots"? Okeedokee.... smh. :ROFLMAO:

I think people on this board are well aware of some of the things you've said about Vad...and others. I'll just leave it at that.
 

Essobee

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
436
Location
Gas Pump #1
I voted "yes", but not because I believe PJ cannot coach winning football. I believe he can without a doubt.

I just believe that the combination of difficulty recruiting players to GT AND to his system is too much to overcome.

With that said, I will be rooting for him with everything I have. I believe that his system can help us overcome a talent gap, but the talent gap cannot be more than 25-30% from the best teams, and currently, I believe it is more like 35-40% from the top tier teams.

CPJ's system directly addresses the increasing difficulty of recruiting players to GT. Ever since flunkgate, lots of changes have taken place with possibly more to come. IMHO, CPJ is the right man at the right place at the right time. The talent gap appears to be narrowing; we'll know more after watching our freshmen perform. A big thumbs up for CPJ. (y)
 

thwgjacket

Guest
Messages
969
I agree, Tulane has some nice pieces. I like that our defense took control in the second half and shut them down. I also like that we were executing at will on offense in the second half.

My qualms with us against Tulane is that our defense was warm butter against a hot knife in the first half. Our second half performance is what I want to see from us consistently...especially against a lower tier team. We're obviously capable of it. We can't afford to have that kind of performance against the meat of our schedule and have our offense playing from behind.

On offense, we couldn't execute our passing game, and when we had to pass we were inefficient...a complete 180 from the Wofford game. It shows that we're probably not there yet once the talent in our opponent increased. We've got two good WRs that can do things if you get them the ball (Smelter and Waller), but if we can't get them the ball then it takes away from our playmakers. But I do like that we rolled up 300 yards on the ground because we made such a big deal about "getting back to the basics" all offseason since Vad left. Really like some of the stuff that's been missing with the speed option and midline.

Like I said in another thread...I tend to be more glass half full when it comes to judging things...that's just my personality because I'm kinda critical about everything (more so when it comes to the things I'm responsible for than at other people). It carries over in sports. I'm a hope for the best but prepare for the worst kinda person. LOL.
Yea I get that. I read on the Tulane board that one reason the RB didn't play well is because he was reportedly "dinged up" after Nealy put that big hit on him. I think Waller being back will help with the passing game because it takes some attention away from Smelter.
On the D side we gave up that one long pass play, other than that I thought they played well in the first half too. They were put in a hole twice and Tulane did have one sustained drive.
 
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