Quick poll on the pulse of the fanbase....

Have you lost faith in CPJ?


  • Total voters
    274

Northeast Stinger

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Also... its not reality that dictates things. Its perception. See the Ray Rice situation... or the Ferguson, Mizz case. Ray Rice would still be playing football if not for the publics view on the issue. The same for what happened in Mizz. Had the race war baiters not come in and made in a black/white issue, its a nonstory. Perception means a whole lot in this world. I just dont see how u can get a good perception of CPJ if you havent had the opportunity to chat with him or people in the know
I totally disagree with you both on Ray Rice and Ferguson, Missouri. But I will say no more and stay away from this political discussion.
 

Ggee87

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I totally disagree with you both on Ray Rice and Ferguson, Missouri. But I will say no more and stay away from this political discussion.
I wasnt trying to make it a political discussion. I was just using an example. Did anything significant happen with ray Rice until the public outcry became too much for the NFL to handle? Absolutely not. The NFL didnt want a bad public image ,so they did what was necessary. We know the flexbone,triple option, or whatever you use to describe our offense... works. But the perception is that you cant make it to the NFL playing in it. Or that we cant make good WRs , or that its a high school offense. Which hinders recruiting believe it or not. I just feel that what outsiders think of CPJ may have the same effect on recruiting a vast majority of players.
 

Eastman

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I agree that overall CPJ may appear less "attractive" to prospects from a distance and could improve his public persona. That may also hurt recruiting to some extent. Sarcastically speaking, maybe we should send him to classes designed to improve his public speaking and even get him some plastic surgery! I think Spurrier teaches a class on public speaking for coaches :) Personally, I doubt the players we recruit are that affected by his public utterances but more by his conversations and visits with them.

Kidding aside, if this really is a significant problem, then getting him some coaching in this area is not a bad idea (though I doubt the improvement would satisfy anyone). Are we hearing from prospects that CPJ's public demeanor made them not consider Tech?
 

dressedcheeseside

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I wasnt trying to make it a political discussion. I was just using an example. Did anything significant happen with ray Rice until the public outcry became too much for the NFL to handle? Absolutely not. The NFL didnt want a bad public image ,so they did what was necessary. We know the flexbone,triple option, or whatever you use to describe our offense... works. But the perception is that you cant make it to the NFL playing in it. Or that we cant make good WRs , or that its a high school offense. Which hinders recruiting believe it or not. I just feel that what outsiders think of CPJ may have the same effect on recruiting a vast majority of players.
Perception of our offense hinders for some helps for others, it's what brought us JT. But your point is taken. However, I don't believe it is at the top of the list of things that make recruiting difficult at GT. There's plenty of other obstacles ahead of it. In addition, perception can and often does quickly change with winning. The players we're recruiting now can win enough to put us in the next tier of the perception hierarchy, which will improve recruiting enough to move us into the next tier and so on.
 

Ggee87

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Perception of our offense hinders for some helps for others, it's what brought us JT. But your point is taken. However, I don't believe it is at the top of the list of things that make recruiting difficult at GT. There's plenty of other obstacles ahead of it. In addition, perception can and often does quickly change with winning. The players we're recruiting now can win enough to put us in the next tier of the perception hierarchy, which will improve recruiting enough to move us into the next tier and so on.
I agree its not near the top of the list. But with all the other hindrances... we dont need to add to the list if it can be avoided easily. Act how you please when you arent on TV. I wasnt meaning to say its a issie thats causing horrible things to happen to GT. Just that it cant help anything and can be easily corrected.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I agree its not near the top of the list. But with all the other hindrances... we dont need to add to the list if it can be avoided easily. Act how you please when you arent on TV. I wasnt meaning to say its a issie thats causing horrible things to happen to GT. Just that it cant help anything and can be easily corrected.
What do you suggest be done to change perception? The offense isn't changing wholesale unless CPJ is fired or leaves so what else?
 
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What do you suggest be done to change perception? The offense isn't changing wholesale unless CPJ is fired or leaves so what else?

It has been discussed ad nauseum, but I think the bottom line of the research was recruits choose the school much more often than they base their decisions on coaches. I would think that the profile of the kid that is interested at all in Georgia Tech would even be more inclined to select the education over the offensive scheme.
 

Mack

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I don't believe it is that cut and dried. CPJ might have said those kinds of things such as we'll pass more--and really meant it at the time. Then Vad comes in and can't run the option, and can't throw as well as expected. So, in turn, CPJ has to call different plays. Vad sees the handwriting on the wall. Not so much "Coach lied to me", as "Coach is not ever going to go all Mike Leach , and I can't excel in the present arrangement." So before he gets hurt taking 20 carries plus another five or six sacks a game, or before he gets benched, he starts to heed the whispers, "Get out, get some playing time while you still have eligibility". It is not Paul Johnson's fault Vad left, but it is Johnson's failure to have evaluated him as a guy that was a true dual threat athlete. Wasted a scholarship and three years trying to make chicken salad out of chicken ca-ca.
I think you are spot on.PJ after TW knew in order to get the most out of the offense he needed somebody who could chunk the rock and yeah,think he wanted Vad for that purpose.I think the problem was Vad was a spreed qb and never looked good under center even though he tried hard.I think not being as familiar with the option made him take a lot of hit maybe a option qb could have side stepped but again it seems at Tech and other places the qb is the key to winning an d losingI think PJ looked at the arm and felt like he could coach him up into the option and to me.......Vad is a spread guy who never looked comfortable in the option...things like this just happen..
 

AE 87

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@Ggee87 Imo, sometimes, perception is not reality. For example, the perception of some, including you, has been that CPJ in some combination of offense/personality hurts our recruiting, but there doesn't seem to be any data to back it up. Besides the outlier year of 2007, we seem to be recruiting at the same level as we always have.
 

Bruce Wayne

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I wasnt referring to players on the team, or former players. Im referring to what it looks like to potential recruits and their families. BEFORE they get to meet him and talk with him. It may turn them off to even considering GT in the first place. Lets be realistic... There arent alot of recruits who are just gungho about attending and playing for GT. Its just not the way it is anymore. So any way possible to shed our program in a positive light should be taken.

Ggee, I just want to add a point of specification. Where you get your perception is from CPJ talking about players to the media. Maybe potential recruits and parents follow the program as closely as we do as fans and so listen to all of CPJ's press conferences and postgame media sessions. If so then sure, they may think he is way too grudging in giving anyone at all any praise and when he does it rarely gets more effusive than that they played "good." B/c I listen to all that stuff I went "wow" when he flat out responded to the question on how Smelter did against Wofford by saying "he was the best athlete on the field and he played like it." That was some serious high praise from CPJ.

Now for my take I think it is hard to gauge what influence CPJ's comments to the media could have on potential recruits. I tend to think it is more likely to be negligible and so am not very concerned about it. He typically tries to counteract whatever he thinks the gist of the question is so as to neither deflate a players confidence or inflate their egos (assuming that player ever hears the media comments).
 

Lexjacket

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Everybody, and I mean Everybody knows that the way to get better recruits is to have 27 - 32 different uniform combinations, with 10 of the combinations that glow in the dark and have 10 that have topographical maps of the state of Georgia and America, and one that has Holographic flames like the girl in
Hunger Games.......

 

Bruce Wayne

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I try to only post if I have something to say that I have not seen others cover so I am going to make what should be my one and only post on the Vad-CPJ debate.

Two points:
1) I thought it was kinda disappointing when Dontae "got on that plane," when Jaybo transferred to GSU, when Luallen transferred to Cincinnati, when Duwop decided "he didn't like competition," and when Vad left. Notice anything? This happens all the time at the QB position at Tech and really in college generally and I don't try hard to find ways to "blame" either party involved. I do grant that having an already starting QB decide to transfer is more peculiar . . . but then there is my second point.

2) It strikes me as almost completely irrelevant what went on in Vad's living room during his recruitment given that he was here for over two years after that living room conversation. Clearly more important is what went on between CPJ and Vad on a daily basis once he was actually at Tech. I have never heard anything untoward on that score from or about either party. Rather, it seems to have been forgotten that once Vad arrived and maybe in the first semester here but at least by the second semester of his redshirt year there were swirling rumors (a twitter kerfuffle) of how homesick he was and missing a girlfriend and such. The impression was that CPJ and staff put a lot of effort into trying to get Vad over this and to convince him to stay and not transfer during his very first year at Tech. The fact that they got Vad through his initial desire to transfer as a redshirt proves to my mind that they wanted Vad here, and were trying to "do right by him." CPJ also tried to add in the pistol and shotgun formations just for him. As in . . . have we seen them much before or since?

So my conclusion:

There were many on the team and even the host of this site convinced that Justin Thomas was the future QB and was going to overtake Vad in the offense. Therefore, Vad leaving is water under the bridge. I see no strong reasons to play blame games on either party, and all's well that ends well.
 

MidtownJacket

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The comparison to Coach K was an interesting one. I got kind of heated in a discussion a while back about CPJ getting after players. IIRC some on another message board thought he was a devil for yelling at the games. I came up pretty strong on the other side saying he was getting after the guy because he "made a boneheaded move" as the coach likes to say.

The fact that he does show some heat publicly on the field, and yet players don't come out of seasons ever saying anything negative shows me that his bedside manner is spot on.
 

Ggee87

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What do you suggest be done to change perception? The offense isn't changing wholesale unless CPJ is fired or leaves so what else?
I was referring specifically to the way CPJ grabs players by the facemask of screams at them or coaches on national TV. Also post game pressers in years past, placing blame on this or that. Also not giving out any praise, even when someone may have played an outstanding game. Thats it. Nothing more. I love the way CPJ conducts himself other than the praise part of it. But I have heard from other Tech fans that do not care for the way he looks on TV and in press conferences. Also these people arent young people whove never played a sport in their lifes. They are lifelong Tech fans who know their stuff. They dont think we do a good job in recruiting, and if we are doing well, they arent getting coached up enough. Which in turn makes them not care for the offense either after 6 years of it not getting us any more playmakers on the team.
 

GTNavyNuke

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DCS, I think we are good at avoiding 3rd downs. We had 84th most (39th ) fewest. (But this isn't adjusted for total # of plays) Alabama had the fewest so I agree it is far better to get a first down on first or second that have to go to third. http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category25/sort02.html When we did get to 3rd down, it was as you pointed out it often 3rd and long.

For Danny, as far as our conversion rate, I looked at 3rd and long for all teams a few months ago and posted some stats. As I recall, all teams were pretty bad at 3rd and 7+. Makes sense since the team gained less than 3 yards on the first two attempts. Plus everyone passes the vast majority of the time on third and long. So the D's can sell out to stop the pass ..... I've wanted to understand 3rd down more since there are a bunch of interrelated parts and I'll try and post on that in the next week or two.
 
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