Question for y"all

[Augusta_Jacket]

I have found this recent stat to be interesting. I think obviously a team wants less penalties in critical moments, so by reducing penalties, you should be reducing important penalties. I do question the impact though, so I am looking back and comparing various penalty stats with final rankings. This is only using 2022 data. Based on the limited sample, I don't really think penalties are a good predictor of team success.
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My assertion is not that fewer penalties correlates with wins, but that fewer penalties shows that a team is disciplined and not prone to beat itself with silly mistakes. It's one of the few things we do that's almost entirely within our control.

 

[ibeattetris]

Do you have the bottom 25 worst-penalized teams handy? I'm curious what that looks like (and where GT landed).

Sure. I got all of the data from: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-play?date=2023-01-10

From this, I would say you do not want to be in the bottom of the pack for penalties. It seems like there is probably some middle ground. Without looking at more data and running some regression, I am not really sure.

GT was 62nd in penalty per play and 53 in penalty yards per play.

 

[MACHETE]

I have found this recent stat to be interesting. I think obviously a team wants less penalties in critical moments, so by reducing penalties, you should be reducing important penalties. I do question the impact though, so I am looking back and comparing various penalty stats with final rankings. This is only using 2022 data. Based on the limited sample, I don't really think penalties are a good predictor of team success.
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What's the R^2?

 

[ibeattetris]

What's the R^2?

My lunch break is about to be over maybe I’ll look more later.

 

[yeti92]

They seem to be calling penalties less and less these days. There was a time when having your other hand on the receiver's back was grounds for PI, you can get away with a decent bit these days. Same for holding, almost never gets called anymore even though guys are being bear hugged with big obvious handfuls of jersey on every play.

 

[ibeattetris]

My assertion is not that fewer penalties correlates with wins, but that fewer penalties shows that a team is disciplined and not prone to beat itself with silly mistakes. It's one of the few things we do that's almost entirely within our control.

I think this makes sense, and is a good place to start considering the culture Key was trying to replace. I was interested conceptually. I think eventually you want players to be in a state where they are making physical plays that run the risk of penalties, but not too much. I won't complain that we are the least penalized team, but I also don't think it would be a bad thing if our team was a bit more physical (are we bad at tackling because all of our players are worried about targetting?). This was all a thought exercise, and I do think I'd prefer to be in the top 25 than bottom 25 for sure.

 

[GT121314]

I think this makes sense, and is a good place to start considering the culture Key was trying to replace. I was interested conceptually. I think eventually you want players to be in a state where they are making physical plays that run the risk of penalties, but not too much. I won't complain that we are the least penalized team, but I also don't think it would be a bad thing if our team was a bit more physical (are we bad at tackling because all of our players are worried about targetting?). This was all a thought exercise, and I do think I'd prefer to be in the top 25 than bottom 25 for sure.

This is exactly what I have been thinking. I'm thankful for such a low penalty number, but what have we been doing to accomplish that? Have our players been walking on eggshells and not playing as physically as they can or should be? Key mentioned in a press conference last year that he wats our defense to be 11 hateful guys chasing after the ball, but it's hard to be a hateful guy and not commit any penalties. Sometimes the risk is worth the reward, i.e. the uncalled pass interference during our fake punt. Just my .02

 

[cpf2001]

Sure. I got all of the data from: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-play?date=2023-01-10

From this, I would say you do not want to be in the bottom of the pack for penalties. It seems like there is probably some middle ground. Without looking at more data and running some regression, I am not really sure.

GT was 62nd in penalty per play and 53 in penalty yards per play.

Cool, thanks! Interesting, so seems like you don't have to be the most disciplined to be good, but if you're the least disciplined you're probably really bad. Or Alabama and Tennessee!

Unclear what direction the causation goes, though - maybe if you can't coach ANY areas you can't coach discipline either.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I wish I was absolutely convinced that Key is the guy the way some of you are. Not predicting failure or anything like that because it's way too early to be talking like that. But to this point I haven't seen much that fills me with the kind of optimism I'm seeing from some here.

Let me see if I can help you with this.

I think people feel positive because of the complete turnaround in several areas.

We went from a bumbling mess of miscues to a nationwide leader in fewest penalties.

We seem to manage the clock much better.

The offense has taken a major step forward.

The defense is rarely beaten now due to blown coverage or someone being out of position.

Having punts blocked regularly is no longer a thing.

The team overall looks disciplined and like they approach games with a solid plan.

Now, the fair question is this. Are we giddy about these things simply because every aspect of the previous coach’s team was, at best, an adventure, and, at worst, a full blown disaster? Is it because what one would normally expect from a coach at this level is such a breathtaking anomaly after the previous coach?

Possibly. But here is the intangible that I’ll hang my hat on for now. The players have bought in. 100%. Otherwise all the bad habits that were ingrained in this team would still be lurking around the ages.

We have a solid coach. Is he the one to take us to the next level? As you would say, too early to tell. But I no longer watch games expecting to lose.

 

[roadkill]

This is exactly what I have been thinking. I'm thankful for such a low penalty number, but what have we been doing to accomplish that? Have our players been walking on eggshells and not playing as physically as they can or should be? Key mentioned in a press conference last year that he wats our defense to be 11 hateful guys chasing after the ball, but it's hard to be a hateful guy and not commit any penalties. Sometimes the risk is worth the reward, i.e. the uncalled pass interference during our fake punt. Just my .02

Here's a "what if"...We are limited in live instruction and practice time, therefore it makes sense that Key initially picked a few areas of focus that he deemed critical, in the sense that they were very squeaky wheels. For example, last year there wasn't time to fix much in season, but I recall Key saying they had to fix the blocked punts. Another one of these areas for 2023 could be team discipline/penalties. So we may have corrected one issue at the expense of others.

As you pointed out, a downside of focusing too much on eliminating penalties is that we are possibly overshooting the mark and playing too carefully. I suspect, as good a player as Charlie Thomas was for us, Key reacted very negatively to his repeated targeting calls. That could play a factor in our tackling issues. I hope this isn't the case, but I wonder.
Whenever I see a team get an offensive holding call, I immediately think, "drive killer", because it often is. Since it's hardly ever called anymore, like PI, we may be better off taking our chances on these types of penalties.

 

[alagold]

Let me see if I can help you with this.

I think people feel positive because of the complete turnaround in several areas.

We went from a bumbling mess of miscues to a nationwide leader in fewest penalties.

We seem to manage the clock much better.

The offense has taken a major step forward.

The defense is rarely beaten now due to blown coverage or someone being out of position.

Having punts blocked regularly is no longer a thing.

The team overall looks disciplined and like they approach games with a solid plan.

Now, the fair question is this. Are we giddy about these things simply because every aspect of the previous coach’s team was, at best, an adventure, and, at worst, a full blown disaster? Is it because what one would normally expect from a coach at this level is such a breathtaking anomaly after the previous coach?

Possibly. But here is the intangible that I’ll hang my hat on for now. The players have bought in. 100%. Otherwise all the bad habits that were ingrained in this team would still be lurking around the ages.

We have a solid coach. Is he the one to take us to the next level? As you would say, too early to tell. But I no longer watch games expecting to lose.

You are right on with the comparison to what was terrible before. BUT-having a FG blocked anytime is bad.There are teams that go YEARS without a FG blocked.That one vs miss turned the game around for us..

 

[Root4GT]

yeah i don’t think we need to be top 30 to salvage the season, but idk we need to show some significant signs of improvement for me to really believe something will happen.

the stuff we are struggling with concerns me. the tackling against ole miss was bad, and that was against some of their backup WRs. their limited scoring had more to do with our offense being slow and conservative rather than the defense playing well

We can't be in the 15 range on defense and hope to win more games than we lose. My concern on defense is we seemed to be out "physicaled" by all three teams including SC State against our DL

 

[bobongo]

You are right on with the comparison to what was terrible before. BUT-having a FG blocked anytime is bad.There are teams that go YEARS without a FG blocked.That one vs miss turned the game around for us..

The new staff has fixed a number of problems, but obviously not all of them. I look at it this way - so far, they've turned a .250 team into a .500 team. Hopefully that trend will continue.

 

[Root4GT]

I think this makes sense, and is a good place to start considering the culture Key was trying to replace. I was interested conceptually. I think eventually you want players to be in a state where they are making physical plays that run the risk of penalties, but not too much. I won't complain that we are the least penalized team, but I also don't think it would be a bad thing if our team was a bit more physical (are we bad at tackling because all of our players are worried about targetting?). This was all a thought exercise, and I do think I'd prefer to be in the top 25 than bottom 25 for sure.

Avoid pre snap penalties and post play penalties. Getting a few PIs and holding calls is ok by me as has been said they call so few for how many are actually committed.

 

[ibeattetris]

Avoid pre snap penalties and post play penalties. Getting a few PIs and holding calls is ok by me as has been said they call so few for how many are actually committed.

I agree. It's the delay of game/false start/illegal formation type penalties that drive me up a wall. Holding/PI seem to have more to do with the referees disposition more than anything else.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You are right on with the comparison to what was terrible before. BUT-having a FG blocked anytime is bad.There are teams that go YEARS without a FG blocked.That one vs miss turned the game around for us..

You are right but then the question to me is whether a team that had so many issues to resolve should expect a 100% success rate in turning them all around in the first year.

 

[MWBATL]

I want to wait and see how we progress in the next few weeks.

I want to see if we start to reliably win games we *should* win (Uva comes to mind)

My jury is still out....

 

[GT33]

The new staff has fixed a number of problems, but obviously not all of them. I look at it this way - so far, they've turned a .250 team into a .500 team. Hopefully that trend will continue.

That's the problem with increasing wins 100% after you absorbed a 50% reduction. You're right back where you started. He has to improve 200% just to be a third better.

 

[JacketFan137]

I want to wait and see how we progress in the next few weeks.

I want to see if we start to reliably win games we *should* win (Uva comes to mind)

My jury is still out....

tony elliot has been an abject disaster hire and that uva team looks awful. we cannot lose that game if we have bowl aspirations

 

[Northeast Stinger]

That's the problem with increasing wins 100% after you absorbed a 50% reduction. You're right back where you started. He has to improve 200% just to be a third better.