QB question

[85Escape]

Beg pardon, but that's insane.

How can Key, for instance, rank a DB accurately? He never sees them except in scrimmages where his focus had better be on the OLs. Same for the other coaches. The "composite staff ranking" would make no sense to even calculate. I bet Coach wasn't being clear about what they are actually doing.

Clearly you know how it should be done. We should have hired you to be the head coach!

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Beg pardon, but that's insane.

How can Key, for instance, rank a DB accurately? He never sees them except in scrimmages where his focus had better be on the OLs. Same for the other coaches. The "composite staff ranking" would make no sense to even calculate. I bet Coach wasn't being clear about what they are actually doing.

This struck me as odd as well. How do you even rank one position vs another? How would you rank the punter and kickers relative to the DB's and LB's relative to the receivers and OL? How could you possibly compare relative worth to the team and then you have everybody with various levels of knowledge of each player ranking all the players? What?

 

[LibertyTurns]

This struck me as odd as well. How do you even rank one position vs another? How would you rank the punter and kickers relative to the DB's and LB's relative to the receivers and OL? How could you possibly compare relative worth to the team and then you have everybody with various levels of knowledge of each player ranking all the players? What?

It’s likely not how they actually do it, but if the players think that’s the way they’re doing it then that’s all that matters.

 

[stech81]

This struck me as odd as well. How do you even rank one position vs another? How would you rank the punter and kickers relative to the DB's and LB's relative to the receivers and OL? How could you possibly compare relative worth to the team and then you have everybody with various levels of knowledge of each player ranking all the players? What?

Everyone gets a trophy.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Everyone gets a trophy.

What are you talking about? I’m not opposed to ranking them, there’s just no way to do it accurately. What criteria do you use across the board as a basis for comparison? Each position has a very specific and different skill set.

 

[stech81]

What are you talking about? I’m not opposed to ranking them, there’s just no way to do it accurately. What criteria do you use across the board as a basis for comparison? Each position has a very specific and different skill set.

I didn't disagree with you. I see no way to rate a QB , running backs, OL , LB , and defensive backs on the same scale.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I didn't disagree with you. I see no way to rate a QB , running backs, OL , LB , and defensive backs on the same scale.

I misunderstood you, sorry.

 

[Techster]

I didn't disagree with you. I see no way to rate a QB , running backs, OL , LB , and defensive backs on the same scale.

Maybe it's a points based system and how each coach views the player based on the criteria. You don't have to coach a player to know whether or not he's good at something.

In HS, when we watched and broke down film, you knew which DB you could pick on, you knew which LB to run away from, you knew which DE you didn't want to matchup against certain OTs. You don't think Tashard Choice knows which LB on the team gives his RBs the hardest time blocking on a blitz or is the hardest to run against in that LB's area? You don't think Marco Coleman knows which OL he can't successfully blitz against? You don't think coach Patenaude knows which player he can attack depending on the personnel?

Each coach recruits different positions in his recruiting territory, but I'm sure each coach can tell you what players he thinks might be a good fit for the offense/defense based on a set of criteria CGC has for each position.

In order to say a coach can't do something, you first have to know the criteria they use for grading. These coaches break down practice film all day, they watch their guys go against other players all day, and they witness how they do in drills. Remember, CGC is big on telling each player that they are also graded on intangibles such as effort, being a good teammate, etc. I'm sure that's part of the process.

Even though some can't fathom how coaches may be able to grade all the players, the point is, you don't know what criteria they're using, and you forget how much time these coaches go against all the players and what they see on film.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Maybe it's a points based system and how each coach views the player based on the criteria. You don't have to coach a player to know whether or not he's good at something.

In HS, when we watched and broke down film, you knew which DB you could pick on, you knew which LB to run away from, you knew which DE you didn't want to matchup against certain OTs. You don't think Tashard Choice knows which LB on the team gives his RBs the hardest time blocking on a blitz or is the hardest to run against in that LB's area? You don't think Marco Coleman knows which OL he can't successfully blitz against? You don't think coach Patenaude knows which player he can attack depending on the personnel?

Each coach recruits different positions in his recruiting territory, but I'm sure each coach can tell you what players he thinks might be a good fit for the offense/defense based on a set of criteria CGC has for each position.

In order to say a coach can't do something, you first have to know the criteria they use for grading. These coaches break down practice film all day, they watch their guys go against other players all day, and they witness how they do in drills. Remember, CGC is big on telling each player that they are also graded on intangibles such as effort, being a good teammate, etc. I'm sure that's part of the process.

Even though some can't fathom how coaches may be able to grade all the players, the point is, you don't know what criteria they're using, and you forget how much time these coaches go against all the players and what they see on film.

So that makes a little sense, but without knowing the criteria and how that equates to a whole team ranking, the validity is questionable at best. My guess is it’s mostly eyeball and gut, not so much objective analysis/data comparison.

I don’t get at all why you want 40+ people doing the evaluation. Choice, Coleman ranking guys outside their position group, sure. The guy in the mailroom, not so much.

Edit: I can’t understand how the Recruiting services can accurately order rank recruits across positions in the state and country either.

 

[Techster]

So that makes a little sense, but without knowing the criteria and how that equates to a whole team ranking, the validity is questionable at best. My guess is it’s mostly eyeball and gut, not so much objective analysis/data comparison.

I don’t get at all why you want 40+ people doing the evaluation. Choice, Coleman ranking guys outside their position group, sure. The guy in the mailroom, not so much.

So the coaches have a set of criteria to grade but it doesn't make sense to you? Fine...doesn't have to make sense to you. As long as it makes sense to the coaches. You can question the validity all you want...but I promise you they don't care. They're not here to placate and explain how they do player evaluations to a bunch of knuckleheads on messageboards.

 

[stech81]

I misunderstood you, sorry.

It's fine I just don't understand how you can rate them other than effort which is fine but that would not put the best players on the field . I can understand rating them by position only but I guess that would be making a depth chart which CGC doesn't seem to want. Guess I'm just old fashion.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

So the coaches have a set of criteria to grade but it doesn't make sense to you? Fine...doesn't have to make sense to you. As long as it makes sense to the coaches. You can question the validity all you want...but I promise you they don't care. They're not here to placate and explain how they do player evaluations to a bunch of knuckleheads on messageboards.

I don’t know if I understand the criteria or not because I don’t know what it is, nobody does. I’m not one to blindly accept something, maybe you are. This is what message boards are for ... discussion. I’m not trying to convince the coaches of anything.

I’m trying to understand the details of how it works but I guess nobody knows and nobody on the staff is saying.

Do you have a theory on the criteria that works across-the-board for all positions? I’d love to hear it.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

It's fine I just don't understand how you can rate them other than effort which is fine but that would not put the best players on the field . I can understand rating them by position only but I guess that would be making a depth chart which CGC doesn't seem to want. Guess I'm just old fashion.

I know, this is a super fishy thing, but some don’t want to recognize it as such.

 

[stech81]

So the coaches have a set of criteria to grade but it doesn't make sense to you? Fine...doesn't have to make sense to you. As long as it makes sense to the coaches. You can question the validity all you want...but I promise you they don't care. They're not here to placate and explain how they do player evaluations to a bunch of knuckleheads on messageboards.

First don't try this the wrong way I do like CGC but does any Head coach care to explain anything thing to the fan base ? if they do I would guess they would not be a head coach long. How is this different than when CPJ had players starting over other players and we question it ? All I could say was I didn't see them practice so I had to take their word for it. Same here with CGC don't understand it but I'm willing to see how it works , I have to believe they know more than I do.

 

[Techster]

I’m not one to blindly accept something, maybe you are. This is what message boards are for ... discussion. I’m not trying to convince the coaches of anything.

I’m trying to understand the details of how it works but I guess nobody knows and nobody on the staff is saying.

Do you have a theory on the criteria that works across-the-board for all positions? I’d love to hear it.

You don't need to "blindly accept" anything. Coaches grade the players and they move on. Whether you choose to accept it is your perogative...my point is they don't care because it's an in-house thing. Has nothing to do with the fans.

I gave you my theory...but you choose not to accept it. That's fine. People who've played football (or any sport) can tell you which are the "good" players and which are the players "punching the clock". It's really not that difficult to understand...then again, some are trying to make this theoretical physics. It's just football.

 

[Techster]

First don't try this the wrong way I do like CGC but does any Head coach care to explain anything thing to the fan base ? if they do I would guess they would not be a head coach long. How is this different than when CPJ had players starting over other players and we question it ? All I could say was I didn't see them practice so I had to take their word for it. Same here with CGC don't understand it but I'm willing to see how it works , I have to believe they know more than I do.

Exactly. That's my point. We're not privy to what the coaching criteria is, so to say "I don't see how they can do it" is a failure to understand on our part as fans, not theirs. They're not here to help us understand how they do things. Previous staff probably didn't "rate" players the way this staff did, but I can promise you the coaches knew which players they wanted on their team if they were picking a team.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

You don't need to "blindly accept" anything. Coaches grade the players and they move on. Whether you choose to accept it is your perogative...my point is they don't care because it's an in-house thing. Has nothing to do with the fans.

I gave you my theory...but you choose not to accept it. That's fine. People who've played football (or any sport) can tell you which are the "good" players and which are the players "punching the clock". It's really not that difficult to understand...then again, some are trying to make this theoretical physics. It's just football.

You gave no theory, you said points. Points based on what? How are the points earned by a linebacker equivalent to the points earned by a place kicker?

Now you’re saying everybody knows who’s good and who’s not. That sounds very subjective to me. In fact it sounds like a depth chart. My take is this is nothing more than a fancy way to have a depth chart. They pass it off as “above the line” to motivate the players. But if they are not motivated by a depth chart why would they be motivated by this?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Exactly. That's my point. We're not privy to what the coaching criteria is, so to say "I don't see how they can do it" is a failure to understand on our part as fans, not theirs. They're not here to help us understand how they do things. Previous staff probably didn't "rate" players the way this staff did, but I can promise you the coaches knew which players they wanted on their team if they were picking a team.

BS. They explain a whole Lotta stuff to the fans and they go into great detail on some things.

 

[iceeater1969]

Exactly. That's my point. We're not privy to what the coaching criteria is, so to say "I don't see how they can do it" is a failure to understand on our part as fans, not theirs. They're not here to help us understand how they do things. Previous staff probably didn't "rate" players the way this staff did, but I can promise you the coaches knew which players they wanted on their team if they were picking a team.

Fact
After practice all the coaches discuss the effort, the mentoring , of ALL the players after practice.

Result - gtswarm who does not have all info on details makes judgment of effectiveness.

Fact
We have a """brand new staff "" who are new to each other and new to players. During this discussion they get to know each others thoughts and concerns of players. Perhaps a GA sees a player do something well like teach a yoinger player a techique or sees extra effort at keeping eyes in right place. The GA had heard this as a concern or a special trait and during a practice he can give positive reinforcement.

Sure there are intangibles and there is a concerted effort to build "team" ACROSS position groups .

I assume this method has merit just like Coach gave long time position coaches autonomy over his group.

This new thing is a fancy w axx y of saying - second string and third string be ready- u are going to play some. When we play teams w differect s hemes the second string mzy play way more or way less. PRACTICE LIKE U ARE GOING TO PLAY.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

“Hey Percy you rank... mmm...say... mmm... numberrrrrrrr... 15 and Tariq you are number 16, no wait... 17.”

“Why coach?”

“because Percy’s leg is moving faster when he kicks the ball than ‘riq’s legs are moving when he’s tackling somebody OK? Now shut up and go be relentlessly elite!”